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EnchantedEve
Guest
Peter, I think you will have to admit most people do not understand the subtleties of occult and masonic lore. Most people could not identify the difference between free masonrie and freemasonry, any more than magic and magick. It really is not important that they should know.Any way you look at it, if you do not accept the authority of the Pope in Rome, and the teachings of the RCC, than you are a Protestant organization. Protestant organizations are built on anti-Catholicism, why ought men of Catholicism subject themselves to ridicule of Our Church, and become ‘premoderns’ to learn the secrets of pre Solomon time? Anyway you look at it, you have the thirteenth degree guy whom all wisdom flows down from…and you spend your time trying to be enlightened so you can ‘move -up’ the totem pole. Big question outside of social, political opportunities, is why? You’ll never become a Catholic organization, you’ll always be protestant. Your general idea is to bring Catholics to join your Protestant institution to ‘save them.’
God bless,
John
God Bless,
All men should seek to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Thus for many years Rome discouraged any activity in “white masonry,” i.e. Rotary Club, Lions, Elks, YMCA, etc. Most Catholics, therefore, would probably seek to avoid anything like Masonry unless they had the explicite okay from Rome or their bishop. It would only be prudent that they do so. To be frank, I have not seen you show that your craft is significantly different in subtance from symbolic masonry other having a religious versus anti-religious tone.
That being said, I really do believe that you should write to Rome. The Curia would probably be interested in studying your craft and comparing to the masons. Then we, in justice, would know where we all stand.
Regarding the Celtic Church, again, I think Peter would acknowledge there is little scholarly consensus on this matter. When Laurence Gardner made similar claims in his Holy Grail books, many scholars questioned his pretentions on the subject, as well as to related ones.
It appears, however, than St. Patrick and the Irish Church have long has a standing relationship with Rome:
Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913
Pope St. Celestine I, who rendered immortal service to the Church by the overthrow of the Pelagian and Nestorian heresies, and by the imperishable wreath of honour decreed to the Blessed Virgin in the General Council of Ephesus, crowned his pontificate by an act of the most far-reaching consequences for the spread of Christianity and civilization, when he entrusted St. Patrick with the mission of gathering the Irish race into the one fold of Christ. Palladius had already received that commission, but terrified by the fierce opposition of a Wicklow chieftain had abandoned the sacred enterprise. It was St. Germain, Bishop of Auxerre, who commended Patrick to the pope. The writer of St. Germain’s Life in the ninth century, Heric of Auxerre, thus attests this important fact: “Since the glory of the father shines in the training of the children, of the many sons in Christ whom St. Germain is believed to have had as disciples in religion, let it suffice to make mention here, very briefly, of one most famous, Patrick, the special Apostle of the Irish nation, as the record of his work proves. Subject to that most holy discipleship for 18 years, he drank in no little knowledge in Holy Scripture from the stream of so great a well-spring. Germain sent him, accompanied by Segetius, his priest, to Celestine, Pope of Rome, approved of by whose judgement, supported by whose authority, and strengthened by whose blessing, he went on his way to Ireland.” It was only shortly before his death that Celestine gave this mission to Ireland’s apostle and on that occasion bestowed on him many relics and other spiritual gifts, and gave him the name “Patercius” or “Patritius”, not as an honorary title, but as a foreshadowing of the fruitfulness and merit of his apostolate whereby he became pater civium (the father of his people). Patrick on his return journey from Rome received at Ivrea the tidings of the death of Palladius, and turning aside to the neighboring city of Turin received episcopal consecration at the hands of its great bishop, St. Maximus, and thence hastened on to Auxerre to make under the guidance of St. Germain due preparations for the Irish mission.
In closing, some final questions:
What substantially differs your craft from freemasonry? Different rituals or rites?
May you furnish your apostolic succession? Is it recognized by Rome or the East?
Do you celebrate the Sacraments in your lodge or with lodge members?
Do you follow in anyway the theology therefore, of the late Charles W. Leadbeater?
Do you minister to the public? Do you have a mission or chapel?
Do you or your hierarchy have contacts with the local hierarchies or Rome or the East?
Peter, you have obviously done much research and I congratulate you on your effort. If you have done your homework as thoroughly as you appear to have, I believe you shall have no problem helping us here.
Answering these questions, would I believe, greatly clarify your position vis a vis Rome, the Church, and Freemasonry.
