Catholic Church and medicinal marajuana?

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I just don’t see the justification in man forbiding let alone demonizing something God created and deemed good. To me that is all out disrespect to His creation.
 
stringbeanduck said:
I just don’t see the justification in man forbiding let alone demonizing something God created and deemed good. To me that is all out disrespect to His creation.
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It goes to show how inadequate man-made laws are in many situations. Some people get stuck at a point in the development of their consciences where they see everything in terms of “complying with the law” versus “breaking the law.” They can’t conceive of any situation where a man-made law can be wrong.

They don’t understand that universal laws always take precedence, even if there is no conflict. They take precedence because they are always Truth and unchanging, while man-made laws are based on majority opinion, a faulty Supreme Court decision (in the USA), etc.

Opiates do not work very well on my pain. I have been on just about every pain reliever available. I’ve resorted to actually burning my back with a heating pad because the burning hurts less than the pain and it covers the pain up (for awhile). Now I have scars on my back from the burns, to go with the scars from the surgeries.

I can’t take any medication that contains tylenol, not that the meds that contain tylenol worked anyway. I’ve been on opiates for years and I try as hard as I can to keep the dosage down to a minimum. They sometimes ease the pain a bit, but they never take the pain away. I would have to be up to twenty or thirty methadone a day to even have a chance to keep my pain under control. I would be asleep all the time. All the time. I wouldn’t be able to pray, or post on CAF, or go to Mass, or talk to people, or do any errands or housework. I would have no life. I would basically be a vegetable. I can’t afford this anyway. When I was on sixteen a day I had to pay $120 a month. I no longer have workers comp benefits, so I can’t afford this.

I’ve tried a jetted tub (works a bit for a little while, but I can’t take long baths because of a skin condition), a unit like a tens unit (doesn’t work), the heating pad (fiasco in prior paragraph), physical therapy (helped with keeping me relatively strong and limber but didn’t help the pain at all), toradol injections (helped sometimes but I could only get these in the ER and I can’t afford to go there), surgeries (I had three on my back and two on my jaw - all failed), meditation (haven’t been able to do it because I’m in so much pain I can’t focus), massage (actually this works fairly well, but I can’t afford to hire someone to do this all day long; in fact I can’t afford to have one massage a month), a tempurpedic bed (they aren’t as good as they claim to be), anti-embolism stockings (these actually do help leg pain and I wear them almost every night), on and on and on…

I have listened to my doctors. I believe they have my best interests at heart. Both recommend medical marijuana. I don’t want to be stoned. That is not who I am. I want the pain to stop.

That’s all I want - just for the pain to stop. At least for a little while. Now I’m going to have to log off because the pain is out of control. I wanted to write more but it will have to wait.

Please pray for me and for Philena (he/she posted earlier in this thread and is in desperate need of prayers).
 
Thanks for your story LS! I know where you have been - after I tried it all - even the meditation and bio-feedback - but like LS - I couldn’t break that pain cycle just long enough to clear my mind and focus on something else. Easier said than done when you don’t know how to meditate to began with - was my case. Now I can better manage with meditation - but only because MM helped do what NOTHING ELSE could - stop my symptoms cold in their tracks - ALL of them - even the ones caused by my other meds. Over a not so fun withdraw period - I had a moment with NO pain and it all changed from there. If i had just felt no pain once with my other interventions - it might have been enough. There just is no point but feeding Trillions of $$$$ into a system to make people like LS, myself, and others out here among us suffer through a system that does not know any better.
 
lufty said:
Are there any Church rulings, or thoughts on the Catholic Church or Catholics and medicinal marijuana? Just wondering as I have not seen this come up yet.
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The use of a medical marijuana is not intrinsically evil; it has the good moral object of treating a medical disorder, and no concurrent evil moral object. (One act can have more than one moral object.) So use of a medical marijuana would be moral, if the intention and circumstances are good. Generally, the circumstances would have to include good consequences of substantial benefit in treating a severe medical disorder, because the bad consequences to the use of this drug are substantial (as some other posters noted above). If the good consequences outweigh the bad, and the intention is good, and there is no moral object, then the act is always moral.

Similarly, with laws that would legalize medical marijuana, the good consequences must outweigh the bad. Unfortunately, when medical marijuana is legalized, the disorders for which it can be used tends to be very broad, resulting in bad consequences that perhaps outweigh the good consequences of treating some severe disorders.
 
Ron_Conte said:
because the bad consequences to the use of this drug are substantial (as some other posters noted above).
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I am not picking on anyone here at all (sorry you posted it Ron - I have peaceful intentions)

What are the thoughts out there on the definitive side effects that are based on some sort of substantial proof - in the using of MM under medical guidance (for now) that are any one single med that treats one single symptom - or multiple symptoms (think even the simple things like Tylenol and IBp et all…) These things are no more safe in their over all ability to treat what they are being taken for than MM could be in the right dosing. (read the bottles - they practically always have more serious side effect than MM - even when taking via Smoking (the worst way for health) Those that support MM for compassionate and affordable care in this forum have stated their own stories and TONS of facts, figures, and proof.

The other side of the issue seems to base a majority of the opinions of MM on referential or dis-info knowledge either presented to them like the Allegory of the Cave - or simply hyped up hysteria and anger stemming from a PTA meeting. What I am seeing is a lack of research to back up the negative aspect. I would love to hear a story where someone is totally backed up to a wall in their treatment and tried MM as a last resort and didn’t find comfort - I am not sure that exists.
 
MM_for_LLPH said:
Thanks for your story LS! I know where you have been - after I tried it all - even the meditation and bio-feedback - but like LS - I couldn’t break that pain cycle just long enough to clear my mind and focus on something else. Easier said than done when you don’t know how to meditate to began with - was my case. Now I can better manage with meditation - but only because MM helped do what NOTHING ELSE could - stop my symptoms cold in their tracks - ALL of them - even the ones caused by my other meds. Over a not so fun withdraw period - I had a moment with NO pain and it all changed from there. If i had just felt no pain once with my other interventions - it might have been enough. There just is no point but feeding Trillions of $$$$ into a system to make people like LS, myself, and others out here among us suffer through a system that does not know any better.
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I’d forgotten about biofeedback!! I went through training and I actually did learn to control my panic and fear about the pain I was in. (I wasn’t able to lower my pain level.) At first it was done with the biofeedback machine and I thought it was cool that I could sit there and consciously change the readings.

The therapist I was seeing (who specialized in biofeedback - I do miss her!!) gave me a ring. I don’t know if anyone here beside me has seen these rings. They are somewhat like mood rings but instead of color changes there are numbers on them, like a clock. The lower the number, the less control a person has over their response to pain. The object is to get to either 12:00 or to a point which shows up on the middle of the ring.

It all has to do with consciously raising body temperature in one’s fingers. I practiced a lot and became very good at doing this. I used to panic before surgery; so much so that I would withdraw consent. My surgeon was getting a bit angry with me. I wore the ring when I was in pre-op before my third back surgery and got it to go up to 12:00. I was so calm. The surgeon and the anaesthesiologist both tried the ring on to see if they could change the numbers.

The rings are for sale on Amazon. I even wrote a review. I have bought a couple over the years. I need to find the one I have now. They aren’t cheap but they are definitely worth the price.
 
Ron_Conte said:
The use of a medical marijuana is not intrinsically evil; it has the good moral object of treating a medical disorder, and no concurrent evil moral object. (One act can have more than one moral object.) So use of a medical marijuana would be moral, if the intention and circumstances are good. Generally, the circumstances would have to include good consequences of substantial benefit in treating a severe medical disorder, because the bad consequences to the use of this drug are substantial (as some other posters noted above). If the good consequences outweigh the bad, and the intention is good, and there is no moral object, then the act is always moral.

Similarly, with laws that would legalize medical marijuana, the good consequences must outweigh the bad. Unfortunately, when medical marijuana is legalized, the disorders for which it can be used tends to be very broad, resulting in bad consequences that perhaps outweigh the good consequences of treating some severe disorders.
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Hi Ron. I agree with you. I suppose there are people in pain who go straight to MM, or what they term “MM,” but they actually just decided to use it without ever finding out if any other med works. So they grow marijuana illegally and use it. I don’t think that is appropriate.

The people on MM that I have talked to have tried just about every medication they can. I have been on numerous pain meds. I don’t know if you saw where I posted that I can’t take tylenol. I can’t take it because every pain med I was prescribed (before the opiates) contained tylenol and I took so much tylenol that my liver couldn’t handle it anymore. It wasn’t the codeine itself in Tylenol 3 that was dangerous; it was the inclusion of tylenol that made these meds so dangerous. I know it’s supposed to aid the other components of the medication, but I was told by the physician who was treating me back then that tylenol is a very dangerous drug. People think that because it’s an OTC it must be safe and that isn’t necessarily so.

My doctor told me to never take tylenol again.

I don’t want to use MM in order to get high. I honestly want the pain to stop.

My father died from pancreatic cancer. His death was horribly painful. If he could have used MM there is at least a chance that he would have had a more peaceful death. That is one reason why I push for the federal legalization of MM. I saw a pain doctor for several years. According to him there is no good reason why the federal government has laws against the use of MM.

If MM is legalized at the federal level I hope that its use is carefully regulated, like the use of other pain meds are regulated.

People are suffering needlessly. It’s not right and it’s not just.
 
MM_for_LLPH said:
Thanks for your story LS! I know where you have been - after I tried it all - even the meditation and bio-feedback - but like LS - I couldn’t break that pain cycle just long enough to clear my mind and focus on something else. Easier said than done when you don’t know how to meditate to began with - was my case. Now I can better manage with meditation - but only because MM helped do what NOTHING ELSE could - stop my symptoms cold in their tracks - ALL of them - even the ones caused by my other meds. Over a not so fun withdraw period - I had a moment with NO pain and it all changed from there. If i had just felt no pain once with my other interventions - it might have been enough. There just is no point but feeding Trillions of $$$$ into a system to make people like LS, myself, and others out here among us suffer through a system that does not know any better.
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That is a good point you’ve made. How can someone learn to meditate when he/she is in horrible chronic pain? I can’t do it. If I could be pain-free (oh wow would that be nice!!) for a little while I could perhaps learn to meditate. Then when the pain came back I would be better able to handle it.

I never thought of it that way. Thanks for pointing that out!!
 
I wouldn’t think that the Church would have a problem with it if it is being used medicinally.
 
MM_for_LLPH said:
Thanks for your story LS! I know where you have been - after I tried it all - even the meditation and bio-feedback - but like LS - I couldn’t break that pain cycle just long enough to clear my mind and focus on something else. Easier said than done when you don’t know how to meditate to began with - was my case. Now I can better manage with meditation - but only because MM helped do what NOTHING ELSE could - stop my symptoms cold in their tracks - ALL of them - even the ones caused by my other meds. Over a not so fun withdraw period - I had a moment with NO pain and it all changed from there. If i had just felt no pain once with my other interventions - it might have been enough. There just is no point but feeding Trillions of $$$$ into a system to make people like LS, myself, and others out here among us suffer through a system that does not know any better.
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I know I’ve already responded to this but I would like to add something. You have made the point that MM stopped ALL the symptoms, even the ones caused by the other meds. That is a very significant point.

Opiates make me very nauseous so I have to take anti-nausea medication. Unfortunately I can’t take the most frequently prescribed anti-nausea medications because if I take even the tiniest dose I have an extra-pyramidal reaction. For anyone who doesn’t know, an extra-pyramidal reaction causes one’s eyes to roll up, one’s head to roll back and stay there while the muscles keep contracting in an attempt to make the head go back even more. One’s jaw starts twitching, it’s hard to speak so that others can understand, and the worst effect is this horrible feeling of restlessness. I couldn’t sit, stand, or lie down. I wanted to jump out of my skin. I have had this reaction numerous times and have had to take a trip to the ER each time for an injection.

The continual pain going on for so many years has been a major influence in the development of clinical depression and panic disorder and I take medications for those.

The combinations of meds that I’m on causes other side effects, such as dry mouth and urinary retention. Those may not seem like big problems, but the dry mouth has gone on to cause major dental problems and the urinary retention leads to UTIs. I even started to go into kidney failure one time recently. There are medications that can be used to treat both dry mouth and urinary retention but they have side effects, too.

Having not taken MM, I don’t know what side effects there are. That would have to be addressed. The reason I’m bringing this up is that it’s much more complicated than just taking opiates, the pain goes away, and that’s it. It doesn’t work that way.
 
Hey, Petergee! I’m still waiting for that research you said you were going to cite. Gee, it’s been quite awhile now.

Where is it?

Or do you concede?

Tick tock tick tock tick tock…
 
Hey LittleSoldier - I am saying a prayer for you this morning. That you experience healing. That you will one day experience justice.

I’m one of those people who is adversely affected by our laws and our medical system, and I will never deem what you are doing a sin. For the past month and a half I have been without medical insurance and have had to forgo some of my diabetic medications, ONE of which, without insurance, costs $400 for less than a month’s supply. As a result, I gained 15 lbs. and have been endlessly sick for the past month. I got coverage again, and I’m really grateful that I didn’t run out of anti-depressants, because then I probably would have had to seek M and risk the judgment of others and perhaps the law.

Whatever the uncharitable position of some or our nation may be, know that you will always have a compassionate ear in me. I cannot, for the life of me, (literally) understand why some deem evil the natural, renewable therapy that God has put on the Earth for humans to use for their benefit and the benefit of others. Nor can I understand why insurance companies (which are required by law to pursue maximum profits to their shareholders, and NOT your health) are allowed to be middlemen between people and their everyday healthcare treatment. That’s not insurance, it’s extortion. Our system works fine for people who don’t have to use it. I’ve never met a cancer patient, diabetes patient, etc. who thinks our system of laws or healthcare is fine or “the best in the world.”

In Christ’s love and compassion – SonofMonica
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
This just stands out at me as another reason to legalize. Because of the lillegality of pot, growers are breeding the plant to be more and more potent so less amounts are needed to get really high. This creates problems like you see with “superhemp” or whatever they call it. Were it regulated, the government could ensure that such high concentrations of THC weren’t reached. Besides if it were privatized, companies would make SURE there were less concentrations so people who wanted to abuse it that badly would have to buy it in very large quanitities. Much like alcohol.

Secondly, I disagree very strongly with your statement about alcolics just stopping drinking. Some of my very close immediate familymemebers were alcoholics, and let me assure you that if an alcoholic could “just stop drinking” we’d have a very different conversation about the physical addictiveness of pot and alcohol. If a hardcore alcoholic “just quits drinking” they need severe medical supervision because it could cause their blood sugar to crash so low, they could die. This is why alcoholics typically have to go to (name removed by moderator)atient treatment centers.

Lastly, there’s a chart published by a university I want to show you. It rates the physical addictiveness of drugs against their harm to the body. Look at where nicotine (cigarettes), and alcohol are. Then look where cannabis is, and please explain to me the logic of why these drugs are legal, and church APPROVED, while marijuana (even if it were legal and used in moderation to relax and not lose one’s senses) is not. The truth is, legalizing pot would do far more good than it could possibly cause in harm. I don’t see Amsterdam crashing and burning.

http://www.udel.edu/chem/theopold/chem465/copland.udel.edu/~rmarcus/drug chart.gif
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These are the facts:

justice.gov/dea/marijuana_position.html

God bless,
Ed
 
LittleSoldier said:
From what two physicians (one is a pain specialist and anaesthesiologist, the other is in internal medicine) and a pharmacist have told me, I am in more danger from taking opiates than from ingesting marijuana. I don’t have a reference for this - this is what I have been told and I tend to agree. I know that the opiates have given me brain damage although I’ve been told it’s reversible, unlike brain damage that occurs with crack use.

There seem to be two groups in this thread: one, there is a group that likes pot, they want to use it, they feel it’s a good recreational drug; two, there is a group of people who need marijuana in order to control pain and nausea (among other effects of disease).

The first group needs to be on another thread.

Like you, I speak from experience. I’ve been trying to get off the opiates for a couple of years now, with little success. I can get down to two or three tablets a day (down from sixteen a day) but I can’t get off them completely. Opiates are great for the short-term. But I wasted so much time and money when on these drugs. I really did not know what I was doing. I had money - it is mostly gone and I don’t know where it went. I had time to start a Ph.D program but how could I do that when I was so stupid from drugs that I couldn’t even talk to someone coherently? Now it’s too late.

The federal government should legalize marijuana, at least for medical use, and stop going after physicians who are only trying to help their patients. Marijuana should be available by prescription in pharmacies. The current system is a mess.

I agree with you.
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Marijuana should not be legalized but there is a form of medical marijuana that does not require smoking:

justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marinol.html

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
So the Drug Enforcement Agency doesn’t impress you? You don’t trust them? How about data from the Drug Abuse Warning Network?

whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/marijuana_ff.html#healtheffects

God bless,
Ed
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I’m certainly not impressed with what’s written there. Don’t accept what you think to be the conclusion. Think for yourself and ask yourself why the author is using certain terminology. For example, in the article you just posted from DAWN, look at the words “associated with” and ask yourself what that means. Do you really think that if someone comes in for treatment for drug abuse, and that person reports having used marijuana more frequently than cocaine, that that means that they are being treated for marijuana dependency? Come on… They are selectively framing the “data” by insinuation–that somehow because marijuana was “involved in” a situation, that it was the cause of the health effects or dependency. I am a lawyer and I can write literally anything to sound like that. I promise you I can, without lying, show an “association with” anything. For example, it is undisputed that 100% of all drivers who die in a car wreck were using rubber tires. So, no, I’m not impressed. Not at all.
 
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