Catholic Church Buries Limbo After Centuries

[GreenJeans]

I run from nothing, I am asking you to call it a human person because that is what it iis. I do not recall anyone ever calling me a multi-cell human, even though that would be an accurate description from a pov of science. This is not a science discussion, it is a theological conversation and I simply will not discuss this issue with you if you cannot refer to huamn people as human people. Why do YOU have such a problem calling a person a person?

I have no problem callng anyone a person. But I am speaking from a scientific perspective. Science showed us conception. Science showed us the single cell. Science showed us DNA combining, and that’s where the protesters have hung their hat. And the abortion protesters make much of this science. Consider their objection to the birth control pill as an abortificant. And we hear a constant litany from the protesters that a human life begins at conception. They call it human life. Offensive?

So, yes, you are running away from facing the reality of your convictions. Stand up for what you believe. What’s the problem? It’s easy to stand up for Terri Shiavo; she looks like us. How about the single-cell human?

 

[johnstown_johnn]

It’s not at all insulting. Simply look at all the activity surrounding Terri Shiavo compared to all the activity against abortion. If all aborted fetuses are human, and Teri Shiavo is human, I find it quite revealing that the huge push was made for the human that looked most like the protesters. I suggest they feel a kinship with the organism that looks most like them, and do not feel the same towards the organism that looks least like them.

I think you are leaving out one most important consuderation of the human condition. Comparing Terri Schavo versus the Unborn…

IT IS A MATTER OF PERCEPTION.

Pro-lifers abhor the slaughter of the Unborn as much as Terri Schiavo.

Terri Schiavo was a living ADULT who has had interplay with her father, mother siblings and other relatives and froends…so that scenario provides a PERCEPTION.

There is also the PERCEPTION of a “death watch.” The world watched Terri starve and dehydrate to death…a slow and drawn out process.

The Unborn, on the other hand, never even had the chance to take one breath into the world nor live even a short life to be introduced to God and learn to love Him. Terri grew up with the knowledge of God; had relationships and bonds and theregore all that plays into HUMAN PERCEPTION.

Terri’s death along with the deaths of the tiny aborted ones are still monstrous before God.

It is only our perceptions that seem to measure the emotions.

Terri, we all watched her die…the Unborn …they are not on closed circuit TV.

Perception does NOT mean the horror is wieghted on one more than the other. —if TV cameras could focus on a real-time abortion… it would be the same.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

It’s not at all insulting.

Typical response from the person doing the insulting.

Simply look at all the activity surrounding Terri Shiavo compared to all the activity against abortion.

Do so, and you will see that the activity against abortion is significantly more than around Terri Shiavo. An example? Do you know how many people march in Washington DC each year to call attention to the error of Roe vs Wade? Compare that to the number of people that marched for Terri.

If all aborted fetuses are human, and Teri Shiavo is human, I find it quite revealing that the huge push was made for the human that looked most like the protesters. I suggest they feel a kinship with the organism that looks most like them, and do not feel the same towards the organism that looks least like them.

This is obviously the error of pro-choicers, not pro-lifers. How your mind twists things! The only way to make such serious observational errors are to subscribe your own warped pro-choice rationalizations on others.

Will you please think before you speak? You are looking very foolish, like a child who has learned the first bit of reasoning skills, but knows so very little.

Dan

 

[GreenJeans]

I think you are leaving out one most important consuderation of the human condition. Comparing Terri Schavo versus the Unborn…

IT IS A MATTER OF PERCEPTION.

Pro-lifers abhor the slaughter of the Unborn as much as Terri Schiavo.

Terri Schiavo was a living ADULT who has had interplay with her father, mother siblings and other relatives and froends…so that scenario provides a PERCEPTION.

There is also the PERCEPTION of a “death watch.” The world watched Terri starve and dehydrate to death…a slow and drawn out process.

The Unborn, on the other hand, never even had the chance to take one breath into the world nor live even a short life to be introduced to God and learn to love Him. Terri grew up with the knowledge of God; had relationships and bonds and theregore all that plays into HUMAN PERCEPTION.

Terri’s death along with the deaths of the tiny aborted ones are still monstrous before God.

It is only our perceptions that seem to measure the emotions.

Terri, we all watched her die…the Unborn …they are not on closed circuit TV.

Perception does NOT mean the horror is wieghted on one more than the other. —if TV cameras could focus on a real-time abortion… it would be the same.

Of course it’s perception. They perceive Teri Shiavo as beng more human than the single-cell human.

 

[GreenJeans]

Typical response from the person doing the insulting.

Do so, and you will see that the activity against abortion is significantly more than around Terri Shiavo. An example? Do you know how many people march in Washington DC each year to call attention to the error of Roe vs Wade? Compare that to the number of people that marched for Terri.

This is obviously the error of pro-choicers, not pro-lifers. How your mind twists things! The only way to make such serious observational errors are to subscribe your own warped pro-choice rationalizations on others.

Will you please think before you speak? You are looking very foolish, like a child who has learned the first bit of reasoning skills, but knows so very little.

Dan

I’m a child? That is soooo kool…

Let’s say there are 999,999 abortions in a year in the US. Let’s add Shiavo as another death and say we have one million.

The odds are 999,999 out of one millon that the individual selected for the most intense individual protest will be a fetus. But it wasn’t. It was the one case where the subject looked like the protesters.

The chance the subject selected for the most intense individual protest is the one that looks like the protesters is one in one million.

Can you tell us why you say I am pro-choice? Did you think before you spoke?

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

I’m a child? That is soooo kool…

Let’s say there are 999,999 abortions in a year in the US. Let’s add Shiavo as another death and say we have one million.

The odds are 999,999 out of one millon that the individual selected for the most intense individual protest will be a fetus. But it wasn’t. It was the one case where the subject looked like the protesters.

The chance the subject selected for the most intense individual protest is the one that looks like the protesters is one in one million.

Can you tell us why you say I am pro-choice? Did you think before you spoke?

I see you have changed your position. Now you speak of the most intense individual protest? My, how we jump around to avoid the stigma of being held accountable.

Here is your first quote

Simply look at all the activity surrounding Terri Shiavo compared to all the activity against abortion.

I did exactly that and NOW what do you say? “Oh, wait let’s NOT compare the activity around Terri Schiavo with all the activity against abortion, Uh Uh, Oh, yeah, lets compare something else, that I really wanted to say, uh, yeah, that’s it, that’s what I meant… not ALL the activity around abortion, just around one/millionth of the issue”

Great work, Einstein! Yes, I stand by my conclusions, a child’s mind at work.

When one is guilty of wrong, they often ascribe their tendencies to other innocent parties. A thief trusts no one around his property. Ascribing pro-choice error to pro-lifers is what gives you away.

Dan

 

[GreenJeans]

I see you have changed your position. Now you speak of the most intense individual protest? My, how we jump around to avoid the stigma of being held accountable.

Here is your first quote

I did exactly that and NOW what do you say? “Oh, wait let’s NOT compare the activity around Terri Schiavo with all the activity against abortion, Uh Uh, Oh, yeah, lets compare something else, that I really wanted to say, uh, yeah, that’s it, that’s what I meant… not ALL the activity around abortion, just around one/millionth of the issue”

Great work, Einstein! Yes, I stand by my conclusions, a child’s mind at work.

When one is guilty of wrong, they often ascribe their tendencies to other innocent parties. A thief trusts no one around his property. Ascribing pro-choice error to pro-lifers is what gives you away.

Dan

Stigma, Einstein, child, thief…that is sooo kool…

OK. Let’s go back to the original if that will help.

What was the most intense and longest protest of the year when Shiavo died? I’d say it was Teri Shiavo because she looked like the protesters. Look at the courts it went through, the legislative moves, the governor’s intervention. Look at how long the tearful vigils went on. TV coverage, camera hungry abortion shills… Everybody except the local Catholic bishop was on site. Even the pope got in the act.

It went on for weeks while a hundred thousand fetuses died without so much as a whimper of protest. The circus was so much more fun and Teri looked like the protesters. So much for the greater good.

(But I still like that million to one chance. That’s what looks will get you, and Teri Shiavo looked right.)

What do you think?

And can you tell us how you determined I was warped and pro-choice? Warped is really kool.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Stigma, Einstein, child, thief…that is sooo kool…

OK. Let’s go back to the original if that will help.

What was the most intense and longest protest of the year when Shiavo died? I’d say it was Teri Shiavo because she looked like the protesters. Look at the courts it went through, the legislative moves, the governor’s intervention. Look at how long the tearful vigils went on. TV coverage, camera hungry abortion shills… Everybody except the local Catholic bishop was on site. Even the pope got in the act.

It went on for weeks while a hundred thousand fetuses died without so much as a whimper of protest. The circus was so much more fun and Teri looked like the protesters. So much for the greater good.

(But I still like that million to one chance. That’s what looks will get you, and Teri Shiavo looked right.)

What do you think?

And can you tell us how you determined I was warped and pro-choice? Warped is really kool.

Tagged so convincingly in the last post, and not nary a mention of any error. And, as has become typical for you, you say you will ‘go back’; but you don’t, you continue on the same tangent you diverted to in the last post.
So easy to be a spear thrower. So difficult to contribute real value.

Dan

 

[GreenJeans]

Tagged so convincingly in the last post, and not nary a mention of any error. And, as has become typical for you, you say you will ‘go back’; but you don’t, you continue on the same tangent you diverted to in the last post.
So easy to be a spear thrower. So difficult to contribute real value.

Dan

Well, you complained so I went back to what you quoted me originally saying. What’s the error? What’s the problem? Is there something of real value you would like to discuss?

Maybe we can talk about how you know I am warped and pro-choice? But that’s your accusation, and your choice.

But, let’s talk about Teri Shiavo. What do you think of the notion that all the circus around her was because she looked like the protesters? I think it has merit, because while they spent all that time on Shiavo, hundreds of thousands of fetuses were aborted.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Well, you complained so I went back to what you quoted me originally saying. What’s the error? What’s the problem? Is there something of real value you would like to discuss?

Maybe we can talk about how you know I am warped and pro-choice? But that’s your accusation, and your choice.

But, let’s talk about Teri Shiavo. What do you think of the notion that all the circus around her was because she looked like the protesters? I think it has merit, because while they spent all that time on Shiavo, hundreds of thousands of fetuses were aborted.

I will add inaccuracy to your list of faults.

Terri Schiavo. Way to go, not just one error, but two! It’s almost as if you are trying to come off the idiot.

Dan

 

[GreenJeans]

I will add inaccuracy to your list of faults.

Terri Schiavo. Way to go, not just one error, but two! It’s almost as if you are trying to come off the idiot.

Dan

Idiot…kool…

Inaccuracy? Perhaps. That’s always a possibilty, but maybe you can tell us what is inaccurate? And why I am pro-choice? And why I am warped? And what things of real value you would like to discuss? And why I am a spear thrower? Stigma? Idiot? Einstein? Child? Thief?

All of America is waiting for answers. Do you have them?

 

[FTS]

Dan & Greenbeans,

If you don’t mind me interjecting a bit, I don’t really know why you guys are at such odds with one another. It seems to me, from your sentiments, you both are devoted to the pro-life cause. Maybe you are mis-understanding one another, I don’t know. And I’m not saying either of you have the intention to argue over abortion vs. euthansia, but the discussion seems headed there, and it is a moot point to argue, in essence, over which is worse, abortion or euthanasia. Both are forms of horrible and senseless murder, and pro-lifers everywhere need to stand up for the pro-life movement and do our best to make these two evil practices illegalized. Also, nobody is perfect and I’m the first to say I’m not either, but I hope you could both be more charitable towards one another and cease with the name-calling and personal attacks. Just my thoughts.

God Bless you both,
FTS

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

Dan & Greenbeans,

If you don’t mind me interjecting a bit, I don’t really know why you guys are at such odds with one another. It seems to me, from your sentiments, you both are devoted to the pro-life cause. Maybe you are mis-understanding one another, I don’t know. And I’m not saying either of you have the intention to argue over abortion vs. euthansia, but the discussion seems headed there, and it is a moot point to argue, in essence, over which is worse, abortion or euthanasia. Both are forms of horrible and senseless murder, and pro-lifers everywhere need to stand up for the pro-life movement and do our best to make these two evil practices illegalized. Also, nobody is perfect and I’m the first to say I’m not either, but I hope you could both be more charitable towards one another and cease with the name-calling and personal attacks. Just my thoughts.

God Bless you both,
FTS

FTS, thank you for your attempts at mediation. What you say is so true.

If you have not studied GreenJeans posts in this and other forums, I would encourage you to do so. Not for my sake, please, but for a better understanding of the pattern that is occuring in this thread and others.

Dan

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Of course it’s perception. They perceive Teri Shiavo as beng more human than the single-cell human.

Both Terri and the Unborn were as helpless. Both are exterminated by a court edict; both were unwanted; both were seen as inconvenient; both are equally human only one (Terri) has developed farther along in maturity. Terri had a name whereas the Unborn are nameless. Both were teminated by heinous means. Terri had a burial–the Unborn are tossed into a dumpster.

Point is: both are treated as non-persons. The judgment from God will not differentiate either from the court that ordered Terri’s death or the deaths of the Unborn.

Now, tell us: How were you able to see the inequalties and the lack of attention to Terri and the Unborn?

You are preaching to the wrong choir here on this forum…your argument belongs with a secular forum.

 

[GreenJeans]

FTS, thank you for your attempts at mediation. What you say is so true.

If you have not studied GreenJeans posts in this and other forums, I would encourage you to do so. Not for my sake, please, but for a better understanding of the pattern that is occuring in this thread and others.

Dan

I agree studying my posts is an enlightening experience. I encourage it, too. They contain a wealth of information and wisdom, and evidence a keen understanding of the human condition.

 

[GreenJeans]

Both Terri and the Unborn were as helpless. Both are exterminated by a court edict; both were unwanted; both were seen as inconvenient; both are equally human only one (Terri) has developed farther along in maturity. Terri had a name whereas the Unborn are nameless. Both were teminated by heinous means. Terri had a burial–the Unborn are tossed into a dumpster.

Point is: both are treated as non-persons. The judgment from God will not differentiate either from the court that ordered Terri’s death or the deaths of the Unborn.

Now, tell us: How were you able to see the inequalties and the lack of attention to Terri and the Unborn?

You are preaching to the wrong choir here on this forum…your argument belongs with a secular forum.

I saw the difference in the response to Shiavo versus the rest of the fetuses by watching TV, reading newspapers and magazines, and monitoring internet chat rooms. I presume you had access to the same.

I suggest people responded more to Shiavo than the fetus because they perceived an emotional kinship with an adult human that they did not perceive with a clump of cells.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

I saw the difference in the response to Shiavo versus the rest of the fetuses by watching TV, reading newspapers and magazines, and monitoring internet chat rooms. I presume you had access to the same.

I suggest people responded more to Shiavo than the fetus because they perceived an emotional kinship with an adult human that they did not perceive with a clump of cells.

Terri’s case was sensational. It gave us a look into what can befall adults who are unwanted. We were already aware of the nonchalance of killing the unborn…they are more of a statistic than a graphic like Terri.

It is most revealing to get a firsthand look at where we are today…it doesn’t show a promising future for humankind.

Evil has permeated the human condition.