Catholic Church called "Evil Incarnate" on Irish Radio

[burnside]

And you don’t know ironic humor when it bites you in the backside. Don’t they teach English in College anymore?

And you yanks are good at dishing out the sarcasm,but you are not such good sports when you are on the receiving end of it.
Then you wonder why you are seen as arrogant throughout the world.I speak English far better than you will ever do.

 

[michaelmac]

Eireann , What use is an apology If the Hierarchy are not being truthful ,There was an enquiry into the Diocese of Ferns , Only people abused by people from seminary in Ferns were excluded from the enquiry , and still are

 

[Eireann]

Eireann , What use is an apology If the Hierarchy are not being truthful ,There was an enquiry into the Diocese of Ferns , Only people abused by people from seminary in Ferns were excluded from the enquiry , and still are

From your previous posts I see your Ferns on the brain, I’m talking about the over-all sexual abuse, and the people apologizing weren’t even the ones doing the abusing, well a lot anyway.

Abusers should apologize to the victims, and the victims are the ones to accept or reject forgiveness, it’s not up to me.

For some victims I’m sure they’ll never forgive.

All I’m saying is a letter was read out at many Masses in my Diocese and some Priests made personal apologies.

But apologies aren’t enough for some, forgiveness, Love, 70 times 7 is a command of Jesus, and if we don’t forgive, then how can we expect forgiveness when we meet our maker.

Look at what Jesus had to forgive, and all this after being brutally beaten and nailed to the Cross, and deserted by His friends.

Matt: 18:21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times.

34 And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. 35 So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

DB_AND_ALI:
Originally Posted by Iowa Mike
I absolutely condemn, in the strongest terms possible, any priest, bishop or cardinal that had any part in covering up or hiding the atrocious acts.

However, I find it absolutely astounding that people are holding God’s “Church” responsible for the deeds of sinful men. The “Church” did not do these things, weak and sinful men did. Over the millenniums the Church has weathered all kinds of adversity including bad bishops, bad popes, bad priests, bad nuns, and heretics, persecution etc. etc., and guess what? It is still standing! Jesus said he would be with us (the Church) until the end of time and I believe him.

The “Church” always comes through these problems stronger because She has not changed; Her teachings, traditions, doctrines and dogmas remain the same.

Holding the Church responsible for this situation is like throwing the ‘baby out with the bathwater’. No organization or government on the planet could remain standing if held responsible for the evil deeds of a few of its members?

I love our church as much as the next person…and i believe the church will indeed outlast us all ; however we should never underestimate the power of an angry populace who have suddenly woken up to the fact that the law courts can take on the church…and win hands down. The church itself is to blame for any cover-ups and we should all make sure that NOTHING , BUT NOTHING like this is ever allowed to stain our church again. Our priest often tells us that WE ARE THE CHURCH and all religious must therefore realise that they are REPRESENTING CHRIST on our behalf.

Iowa Mike

DB and ALI,

I’m sure it was unintentional but you published your remarks over my name. Please take care not to do this in the future to avoid confusion as to who wrote what.

We are not very far apart in our views. I totally agree with your priest…we are indeed the body of Christ’s Church. You need to separate the Church from the evil persons that committed these acts of abuse. I don’t get why intelligent people want to trash everyone because of the deeds of the few. Do you really believe that the Pope and 100% of the Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, Deacons, Nuns, lay workers et al worked together to cover-up the abuses of 2 or 3% of their number.

There is no question that there were abuses…there is no question that there were cover-ups…and there is no question that it was done in secret by priests and bishops who have lost their way.

Iowa Mike

 

[michaelmac]

A little thought for you all, Which you are not going to like , The Catholic Church would not be protecting children, But for those survivors who had the courage to stand up against the Church ,And make it know they covered up abuse , And the next time some one says some thing that you find offencive , remember you did nothing to protect children but survivors did

 

[Chancellare]

Do not assume that Rome/Vatican knew the full truth regarding the sex scandal cases.

Should have the early Christians left the Apostles for what Judas did? Judas betrayed Christ and Christ picked him to be an Apostle.

The media makes the sex scandals a Catholic problem, when the problem exist in all and at a higher precentage in the non-Catholic churches.

Exactly what I’ve been saying.
The worst sexual perversion is in the secular world yet they accuse 2% Catholic priests while silent about the other sects.
What do you call that?

 

[michaelmac]

It is not just about the priests who abused , It is about those who could have stopped children being abused, But turned there backs on the welfare of children and young people ,At the same time telling the laity follow our churchs teaching and not following it them selves , And to make matters worse showing no Christianity what so ever to victims ,

 

[Chancellare]

It is not just about the priests who abused , It is about those who could have stopped children being abused, But turned there backs on the welfare of children and young people ,At the same time telling the laity follow our churchs teaching and not following it them selves , And to make matters worse showing no Christianity what so ever to victims ,

Let’s say Judas represented 8% of the leaders of Christ. Did you hear any Apostle/disciple complaining why Jesus did not have Judas stoned to death? Or have you heard a disciple committing suicide on account of Judas’ betrayal?

Or would one rather commit spiritual suicide over the 2% traitors who showed “no Christianity whatsoever to the victims”?

What else would you want from the betrayal?

 

[Eireann]

It is not just about the priests who abused , It is about those who could have stopped children being abused, But turned there backs on the welfare of children and young people ,At the same time telling the laity follow our churchs teaching and not following it them selves , And to make matters worse showing no Christianity what so ever to victims ,

A generalization, tarring everybody with the same brush, so judgemental, as if every Catholic Priest was guilty.

As for those who could have stopped the abuse, let the law deal with that, if the law fails to convict, then I hope you aren’t suggesting we operate outside the law.

Obviously serious flaws with the legal system.

Matt:6:14** For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. 15 But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences. **

 

[Fergal]

Doctors have abused, and in Ireland their colleagues have tried to cover it up. Does that mean all medicine is evil? Has the local Doctor or Hospitals seen a massive hate campaign launched against them or have they noticed a drastic drop off in the numbers attending them for thier services?
NO.

Teachers have abused and Principals have tried to cover up, does that make all education evil?

Mothers have abused and Fathers have tried to cover up: Fathers have abused and Mothers have tried to cover up, does that make the family inherently evil?

A lot of the hate press the Church is receiving is using the actions of the few to insipre and give life to their anti-Catholic agendas.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

A little thought for you all, Which you are not going to like , The Catholic Church would not be protecting children, But for those survivors who had the courage to stand up against the Church ,And make it know they covered up abuse , And the next time some one says some thing that you find offencive , remember you did nothing to protect children but survivors did

michaelmac,

I think we should start another thread to explore why you hate the Catholic Church. Your logic in this thread is twisted. In this post you claim that if it wasn’t for the survivors who had the courage to report the abuse the Church wouldn’t be protecting children today.

All I can say is yea…so what? These kind of scandals always come to light when the victims speak out. This scandal is no different. Your characterization that is something more sinister is totally without merit.

By the way…no-one was killed so your use of the word survivor is either meant to be funny or to paint a darker picture…either way it is misleading.

Light has shined into the Church and those responsible are being purged and brought to justice, time for you to move on.

Iowa Mike

 

[Melanie01]

Does he have a buddy called Jack Chick?

 

[michaelmac]

Iowa Mike ,The reason abuse victims use the word survivor is very simple to understand because we are alive not dead , and we did not kill our selves even though our inner torment was horrible , Can you read if you can tell me were in the bible it says children have to forgive those who hurt them

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Iowa Mike ,The reason abuse victims use the word survivor is very simple to understand because we are alive not dead , and we did not kill our selves even though our inner torment was horrible , Can you read if you can tell me were in the bible it says children have to forgive those who hurt them

michaelmac,

I’m not trying to undercut the pain you suffered but hating the whole church is not an answer. You asked if I could tell you where in the bible it says children have to forgive those who hurt them and I can:

Matt 18:21-22

21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times.

This applies to all who believe in Jesus Christ…his life is our example of love and forgiveness.

What did he say when hanging on the cross:

Luke 23:33-34

33 And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified him there; and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. But they, dividing his garments, cast lots.

Jesus was referring to those who crucified him, he forgave them as he hung on the cross, this is our example.

Do yourself a huge favor, surrender this burden to Jesus, forgive those who have hurt you, pray for them and move one with your life.

One final passage:

Luke 6:26-40

26 Woe to you when men shall bless you: for according to these things did their fathers to the false prophets. 27 But I say to you that hear: Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you. 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them that calumniate you. 29 And to him that striketh thee on the one cheek, offer also the other. And him that taketh away from thee thy cloak, forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every one that asketh thee, and of him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again.

31 And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner. 32 And if you love them that love you, what thanks are to you? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if you do good to them who do good to you, what thanks are to you? for sinners also do this. 34 And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks are to you? for sinners also lend to sinners, for to receive as much. 35 But love ye your enemies: do good, and lend, hoping for nothing thereby: and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the sons of the Highest; for he is kind to the unthankful, and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37 Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. 38 Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. 39 And he spoke also to them a similitude: Can the blind lead the blind? do they not both fall into the ditch? 40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one shall be perfect, if he be as his master.

I don’t know if Jesus could be more clear on his expectations.

Iowa Mike

 

[michaelmac]

Iowa Mike you are not the first peson to think i hate the church, I do not hate the church or any one, what drives me is anger , And that anger comes across in my posts as hate , yours michael

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Iowa Mike you are not the first peson to think i hate the church, I do not hate the church or any one, what drives me is anger , And that anger comes across in my posts as hate , yours michael

Michael,

It’s time to put the anger down…you didn’t comment on the scripture quotes you asked for. Notice in there that Jesus asked you to forgive not to be angry.

Iowa Mike

 

[ocuinn]

I am at a loss for words at this moment in time. I have within the last hour listened to an interview with a one Mr Dave Fanning regarding the film/documentary “Deliver Us From Evil” which is showing in selected cinemas about Ireland at present.

During his passioned anti-Catholic rant, Mr Faning goes on to refer to the Catholic Church as being Hell, as an organisation that is rotten to the core, as a crazy organisation and finally calls Mother Church evil incarnate.

Just have a listen to it and see the scandalous tirade he went on. Its as anti-Catholic as you can get. It can be heard in RealPlayer format on
rte.ie/radio1/marianfinucane/1084847.html Go up along to 1hr 42mins into the show for the shocking interview.

You may then register you protest / disgust to marian@rte.ie just as I have done.

For those of you in Ireland you can call the RTE complaint line on a Dublin number 01-2083434.

Dave Fanning disgusts me. He is so busy talking that he never takes the time to think and it is this lack of thinking that leads to his pure ignorance of Catholicism - an attitude typical in modern day Ireland!

AP Quinn

 

[nkelly]

Iowa Mike you are not the first peson to think i hate the church, I do not hate the church or any one, what drives me is anger , And that anger comes across in my posts as hate , yours michael

Michael I understand that you’re angry and that you want justice but forgiveness is essential. None of us is beyond reproach. Anger kills the soul. You can be certain that the greater the forgiveness, the greater is God’s mercy. We’re all very much in need of God’s mercy.

God bless,
Noel.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

Originally Posted by Iowa Mike
I absolutely condemn, in the strongest terms possible, any priest, bishop or cardinal that had any part in covering up or hiding the atrocious acts.

However, I find it absolutely astounding that people are holding God’s “Church” responsible for the deeds of sinful men. The “Church” did not do these things, weak and sinful men did. Over the millenniums the Church has weathered all kinds of adversity including bad bishops, bad popes, bad priests, bad nuns, and heretics, persecution etc. etc., and guess what? It is still standing! Jesus said he would be with us (the Church) until the end of time and I believe him.

The “Church” always comes through these problems stronger because She has not changed; Her teachings, traditions, doctrines and dogmas remain the same.

Holding the Church responsible for this situation is like throwing the ‘baby out with the bathwater’. No organization or government on the planet could remain standing if held responsible for the evil deeds of a few of its members?

I love our church as much as the next person…and i believe the church will indeed outlast us all ; however we should never underestimate the power of an angry populace who have suddenly woken up to the fact that the law courts can take on the church…and win hands down. The church itself is to blame for any cover-ups and we should all make sure that NOTHING , BUT NOTHING like this is ever allowed to stain our church again. Our priest often tells us that WE ARE THE CHURCH and all religious must therefore realise that they are REPRESENTING CHRIST on our behalf.

Iowa Mike

DB and ALI,

I’m sure it was unintentional but you published your remarks over my name. Please take care not to do this in the future to avoid confusion as to who wrote what.

We are not very far apart in our views. I totally agree with your priest…we are indeed the body of Christ’s Church. You need to separate the Church from the evil persons that committed these acts of abuse. I don’t get why intelligent people want to trash everyone because of the deeds of the few. Do you really believe that the Pope and 100% of the Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, Deacons, Nuns, lay workers et al worked together to cover-up the abuses of 2 or 3% of their number.

There is no question that there were abuses…there is no question that there were cover-ups…and there is no question that it was done in secret by priests and bishops who have lost their way.

Iowa Mike

Totally unintentional…sorry ! Yes , i agree with your statements…i was an alter boy and was never touched/abused in any way. What i find unacceptable is that it appears that THE church heirarchy tried to cover-up the cover-ups !!! Lets get it all out once and for all…if we don’t it will just give bored catholic-bashers more ammunition.

 

[burnside]

I believe the cover-ups were done to avoid congregations taking the view that,if a priest cannot be close to Christ,what chance do the rest of us stand.In addition,i don’t think they realised the addictive nature of this sin.They thought it was just a one-off that would not happen again.
While i think some people fall into this lifestyle because of stress,others deliberately go for ANY job which gives them access
to the vulnerable.