Catholic church collects money for mosque

[ChemicalBean]

Doesn’t CCC 841 call for this kind of coperation, acknowledgeing we all Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God?

I don’t know about the CCC verse cited, but yes, I’ve always believed that we who claim descendancy from Abraham and consider the Holy Land our home and inheritance are callled to worship the same God.

Obviously, this gesture of goodwill is creating scandal even in this forum. But if we can help our Muslim cousins make a physical place to pray to God, then they through prayer can make room in their hearts to know God. And then maybe it’s not so far-fetched for them to come to know Christ as not just a holy prophet but as the very Face of the God whom they already love and serve.

 

[carol_marie]

Building this mosque does not mean that they were supporting the Muslim faith.

Sorry to laugh ~ that is just the funniest thing though. Of COURSE helping them build a mosque is supporting the Muslim faith.

What if it weren’t Muslims - what if it were Devil Worshipers and they needed a place to “worship” Satan - sacrifice animals - whatever - would it be supporting them if we were to help them build a building?

Or would that just be good Christian charity at work?? Maybe the Satanits could put a little sign on the door acknowledging the contribution of the Catholic Church - right next to the SATAN’S PLACE OF WORSHIP.

Gads. What’s next?

 

[Adonis33]

Sorry to laugh ~ that is just the funniest thing though. Of COURSE helping them build a mosque is supporting the Muslim faith.

What if it weren’t Muslims - what if it were Devil Worshipers and they needed a place to “worship” Satan - sacrifice animals - whatever - would it be supporting them if we were to help them build a building?

Or would that just be good Christian charity at work?? Maybe the Satanits could put a little sign on the door acknowledging the contribution of the Catholic Church - right next to the SATAN’S PLACE OF WORSHIP.

Gads. What’s next?

Thank you for brining in a little common sense to this thread. This was my reaction when I read what was posted as well.

 

[carol_marie]

I.

Obviously, this gesture of goodwill is creating scandal even in this forum. But if we can help our Muslim cousins make a physical place to pray to God, then they through prayer can make room in their hearts to know God. And then maybe it’s not so far-fetched for them to come to know Christ as not just a holy prophet but as the very Face of the God whom they already love and serve.

Do you really think it is likely that they will come to know Jesus by attending their mosque?

If so, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

 

[GreenJeans]

But that is just the point.

Assisting them in their erronous view of God isn’t Love, it’s a type of hate.

If they truly LOVED them, they would bring them to true worship, to remove the blindness of Islam and replace it with the True Light of Christ.

Why is any enhancement of their spiritual blindness to be considered ‘love’?

Perhaps a really charitable action speaks far louder than all the preachers in the world. The world is full of people who tell everyone else how to act, but fail to live up to their own preachings. These Catholics might take the idea of loving their neighbor seriously.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Building this mosque does not mean that they were supporting the Muslim faith.

This sentence is worth rereading. I understand you are striving for a theological point of selfless kindness, but the statement itself has a significant theological and physical self contradictory element. The truth cannot contradict itself.

Finally, it is clearly a scandal to the faithful. There are other ways to help and through action display true Christian charity.

ps Thank you for the kind words on my earlier post.

 

[DiscernVoc]

I don’t know about the CCC verse cited, but yes, I’ve always believed that we who claim descendancy from Abraham and consider the Holy Land our home and inheritance are callled to worship the same God.

Obviously, this gesture of goodwill is creating scandal even in this forum. But if we can help our Muslim cousins make a physical place to pray to God, then they through prayer can make room in their hearts to know God. And then maybe it’s not so far-fetched for them to come to know Christ as not just a holy prophet but as the very Face of the God whom they already love and serve.

Absolutely.

 

[DiscernVoc]

Do you really think it is likely that they will come to know Jesus by attending their mosque?

If so, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

Maybe not, but after seeing the love in the hearts of Christ’s servants they might take a look at what would drive people to do such a selfless act.

 

[DiscernVoc]

This sentence is worth rereading. I understand you are striving for a theological point of selfless kindness, but the statement itself has a significant theological and physical self contradictory element. The truth cannot contradict itself.

Finally, it is clearly a scandal to the faithful. There are other ways to help and through action display true Christian charity.

ps Thank you for the kind words on my earlier post.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I see this as helping with a problem that was most immediate and closest to these Muslim’s heart. This act is supporting a group of Muslim’s, not the doctrines of Islam. Now, I think we can go round and round in this debate but there reaches a point when it becomes just a matter of interpretation of Catholic teaching. You see it as supporting a group of people we should be evangelizing. I see it as evangelizing by example. Love is going to convert more people than preaching.

God bless

 

[Vigis]

Maybe not, but after seeing the love in the hearts of Christ’s servants they might take a look at what would drive people to do such a selfless act.

Ah so the end justifies the means? Okay Huey.

 

[Timothy_486]

I agree with those who say there is no wrong in helping Muslims and I also agree with those who say building a mosque with church funds sends a wrong message. Clearly there are a million other ways to help in charity with them.

 

[Vigis]

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I see this as helping with a problem that was most immediate and closest to these Muslim’s heart. This act is supporting a group of Muslim’s, not the doctrines of Islam. Now, I think we can go round and round in this debate but there reaches a point when it becomes just a matter of interpretation of Catholic teaching. You see it as supporting a group of people we should be evangelizing. I see it as evangelizing by example. Love is going to convert more people than preaching.

God bless

It is only going to to continue because of illogic. Not supporting the doctrines of Islam? It supports Islam by building a building for them to worship God in the wrong way. All this reminds me of are tobacco companies that give money to cancer centers, and maintain that smoking does not cause cancer when it does.

God speed.

Vigis

 

[DiscernVoc]

Ah so the end justifies the means? Okay Huey.

No, they are doing a loving deed to begin with. They are evangelizing by example. Since when did an act motivated by love and brotherhood become a sin. Even if you disagree with their way of interpreting the Catholic view of charity, you must assume their intention was an act of love. It seems that everyone is ready to cry scandal but didn’t Christ say “whoever is free from sin, cast the first stone.” Now I appreciate the love of Christ that may be motivating the strong opposition to this act of love, but I’m not sure that Christ himself would not have started helping these people build their Mosque brick by brick if He were in this situation. I am going to do a little research in the catechism to see if I can get any objective direction from the church on this matter.

Peace be with you

 

[carol_marie]

I agree with those who say there is no wrong in helping Muslims and I also agree with those who say building a mosque with church funds sends a wrong message. Clearly there are a million other ways to help in charity with them.

I agree with that point. Feed them? Yes. Help to provide shelter for them? Yes. Clothe them? Yes. But not build their mosque. That is not a charitable thing to do when it will likely lead them straight to hell.

 

[Vigis]

No, they are doing a loving deed to begin with. They are evangelizing by example. Since when did an act motivated by love and brotherhood become a sin. Even if you disagree with their way of interpreting the Catholic view of charity, you must assume their intention was an act of love. It seems that everyone is ready to cry scandal but didn’t Christ say “whoever is free from sin, cast the first stone.” Now I appreciate the love of Christ that may be motivating the strong opposition to this act of love, but I’m not sure that Christ himself would not have started helping these people build their Mosque brick by brick if He were in this situation. I am going to do a little research in the catechism to see if I can get any objective direction from the church on this matter.

Peace be with you

Just because someone does something out of love does not make it right. People have murdered out of love.

I am not casting stones here nor has anyone else as far as I know.

God bless.

 

[DiscernVoc]

I agree with that point. Feed them? Yes. Help to provide shelter for them? Yes. Clothe them? Yes. But not build their mosque. That is not a charitable thing to do when it will likely lead them straight to hell.

This is not what the church teaches. It teaches that those who do not know God as we do may still be baptized by desire. That is if they were in a position to understand what baptism means that they would seek it. The catechism says that as long as these people follow God’s will by striving to lead a moral life they they may be receive baptism by desire. God in His infinite love and knowledge knows if that person would be baptized if they came into an understanding of what baptism truly means.

 

[DiscernVoc]

Just because someone does something out of love does not make it right. People have murdered out of love.

I am not casting stones here nor has anyone else as far as I know.

God bless.

Murder is objectively wrong. Helping these people build a place of worship is not. Murder is directly mentioned in our catechism therefore we have explicit instructions that it is immoral.

Scandal is sinful. By accusing fellow Christians of being scandalous we should be sure of the objective nature of their offense. That being said, I understand how this act does bring up questions. While I still believe that this was a good deed and one that Christ would condone, I definitely see the point you guys are making in opposing it.

 

[carol_marie]

This is not what the church teaches. It teaches that those who do not know God as we do may still be baptized by desire. That is if they were in a position to understand what baptism means that they would seek it. The catechism says that as long as these people follow God’s will by striving to lead a moral life they they may be receive baptism by desire. God in His infinite love and knowledge knows if that person would be baptized if they came into an understanding of what baptism truly means.

I bolded the word in your post that makes all the difference. Yes- it’s possible they may be saved - but it’s a long shot for them at best certainly wasn’t what the Saints were willing to bank on. They traveled such great distances, endured terrible trials - often death to tell others the truth about Jesus Christ.

Far better to actually TELL them about baptism - and not only baptism - but Jesus Christ and how much better their life would be with HIM in it. Jesus said that the road to heaven is narrow & few find it. It is OUR responsibility to tell everyone that the way to the Father is through JESUS - not Mohammad - a message that gets totally muddled if we’re building mosques.

I was once lost and totally caught up in a religion that did NOT believe in Jesus. I am so happy that Chrisitans TOLD me about Christ - TOLD me about His Church - rather than build a Kingdom Hall where I would continue to be taught lies. In fact, if Catholics HAD built a Kingdom Hall, I would’ve been thrilled to know that even THEY recognized that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were the true religion. Do you see how dangerous & ridiculous that is?

Building the mosque was NOT a good deed. :nope:

 

[Vigis]

I am with you. We are to promote the FULL TRUTH. Take note of the word promote.

Go with God.

Vigis

 

[SueKrum]

May i respectfully say that i am sick and tired of the theology of “dialogue”. We are selling our Holy Faith, the faith of the martyrs, of the Saints out. Christ has called us to proclaim His Gospel to every creature under heaven. The term “dialogue” to me connotates equality, two equals sitting down to discuss.
While we are equal as human beings in our discussion, we must never deny that our Holy Roman Catholic Faith is THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD AND LIFE IN THIS WORLD. To compromise it or obscure it by ambiguity is scandalous. Jesus said that who ever confesses Him before men, he will confess before the angels of the Father. He also said whoever denys Him before men, he will also deny before the father. We should be respectful of people of course, but never deny the truth or obscure it. We should be more concerned with letting the Lord down, than we are with “dialogue”.

I believe I am the third person on here to say
AHMEN!