Catholic Church founded by Jesus?

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This is the subforum for Non-Catholic Religions. You’ll find people of many various religions and opinions here. If someone states they aren’t Catholic or Christian or doesn’t see something the way you do, maybe you should not see it as an insult but rather a topic for a new debate, where you can present your arguments. That approach will be much more beneficial for everyone, including you.
 
Good. We wouldn’t want one to be “institutionally” saved, but by God Himself thru His Son, as such preached.

"For God so chose that by the foolishness of preaching that man be saved. "

Just take a look OT patriarchs, the twelve sons etc.and we see just how much by grace it is, lest any portrayer of the promises be puffed up.

Don’t give up my fellow traveler.

But yes, the dialigue can be quite rote, tiresome to the best of us.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, sometimes like a breath of fresh air.
 
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mcq72 said:
Yes, Catholics find comfort in saying they are from the beginning, as do Orthodox, and Protestants in a reformed fashion.
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The topic is How do we know that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus?
It is not only comfort but it is the truth. You are unable to identify any other Church and yes the Orthodox was there as well part of the Catholic Church that existed from Christ. I disagree that they never accepted papal authority, according to the history books of Warren Carroll they did. As for the Huss’s, Luther’s, Calvin’s, that was not a reformation but a revolt that separated them from Christ’s Church.
 
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mcq72 said:
They never accepted the Catholic development of papal office. It has always been a Catholic assertion
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Clement of Rome

Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger . We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect ( Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1[ A.D. 95 ]).

Ignatius of Antioch

You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught . I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force ( Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [ A.D. 110 ]).
 
ArchStanton said:
If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us,
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Again, written in presbyter fashion (presbyters and church at Rome), not of a supreme bishop (never mentioned in letter).
 
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Glenn said:
They believe in the Apostles and Nicene creeds, and express certainty in the fundamental doctrines of a Creator, of his triune nature, of the dual nature of Christ (fully God and fully man), his virgin birth, his bodily resurrection and ascension, his inspired and infallible Word, etc.
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Most Protestants denominations agree with the basic doctrines of the Catholic Church. IIRC, Unitarians do not believe in the Trinity as we do, yet they are considered Protestant.
 
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mcq72 said:
As long as the church is abiding in truth, thereby in Christ on a matter, Paul would serve the matter, even be obligated and under such authority. Yet as an example he did not yield to Judaizers from Jerusalem church, nor to Peter when he appeased them, disconcerting the gentiles.
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Individual mistakes do not constitute Church. St. Paul was clear that Church can not be in error as Church is pillar and foundation of Truth.

Correct. Which were Protestant?

Main point we have against Protestantism lies in fact it has never existed until reformation- and it can’t claim to have unbroken lineage of people following it. Christ promised Church Divine Protection and St. Paul called it Pillar and Foundation of Truth. Truth is Christ and for us only Church can lead to Christ. He who doesn’t have Church as his Mother can’t have God as his Father … and that there is no Salvation without Church - famous quotes by St. Cyprian state this. Church is Ark of Salvation hence if True Church disappeared for even a minute then Salvation was lost for a minute. We don’t believe Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross disappeared for a minute or was ineffective for a minute.

This isn’t point against Orthodoxy or Eastern Christianity at large (and perhaps neither against Old Catholics and Sedevacantists).
 
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mcq72 said:
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ArchStanton:
If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us,
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Again, written in presbyter fashion (presbyters and church at Rome), not of a supreme bishop (never mentioned in letter).
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But then why write to Rome? St John, an Apostle, was still alive at this point and he was much closer to Corinth than Rome is. Why not go to a living Apostle, rather than the third successor of St Peter?
 
mcq72 said:
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ArchStanton:
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught
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Well I would hope so, through Peter and Paul , the two most glorious apostles , shepherding there and from there.
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Cyprian

With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics , they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source " ( Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [ A.D. 252 ]).
 
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