Catholic Church founded by Jesus?

[Glenn]

The problem is , as I see it, is that not all Protestants believe what you have listed here. There is such a variety of beliefs, that one cannot say for certain what a Protestant believes.

For instance, I have read some Protestants do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation; that the Eucharist is only a symbol; that the Trinity means that there are three gods. I’ve even had a Protestant tell me that he believed that the Holy Spirit will lead everyone to be able to discern what the Bible says on their own (but see 2 Peter 3:16)

I believe that most Protestants are sincere in their beliefs and that they are our speared brethren; however, without an overarching authority (the Catholic Church) only confusion will reign.

Yes, there are sadly many divisions among Protestants. It is a major problem, one of the major reasons why many Protestants enter the Catholic Church, and one of the major reasons why I am interested in the Catholic Church.

Kreeft said that Protestants are part of “Christ’s Body if they are Christians.” There are many Protestants who do not understand the essentials of the gospel, and are therefore not really Christians. But I think there are also many modernist Catholics who have reduced the one true faith to basic morality, and yet deny the major moral teachings of the Church. I suspect these individuals are also not true Christians.

I believe that conservative Protestants who hold to the Nicene and Apostles creeds have more in common with orthodox Catholics than they do with either modernist Protestants or modernist Catholics. If, as Scripture says, we are to judge them by their fruits, then we should be suspicious of both Protestants and Catholics who support things like abortion and homosexuality.

Aspects of the ecumenism, such as Evangelicals and Catholics Together, the Joint Agreement on Justification between the Catholic Church and one wing of the Lutheran Church, and some of the recent Anglican-Roman Catholic Dialogue are helpful in this regard.

I believe the topic of whether or not the Catholic Church is the one true Church, to some degree, can be considered separately from the question of who is or is not a true Christian (of who is or is not being led by the Holy Spirit). All Christians have benefited from the teachings handed down to us by the Catholic Church. And that fact is a major plus for the uniqueness of the Catholic Church.

 

[JimG]

Of course the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus. He established His Church, named Peter as its first leader and all the apostles were the first bishops, who went on to ordain successors and bishops for new dioceses. The Church wrote and canonized the new testament scriptures, and followed Jesus instruction to preach the gospel to the whole world. Protestantism did not arise until some 1500 years later.

 

[mcq72]

If you really can’t see an issue with there being a million protestant denominations and all have their own doctrines and interpretations idk what to tell you.

Thanks for responding.

I have not only not addressed Protestant or Orthodox doctrinal problems, but not even Catholic doctrinal problems. I have only adressed resting upon a " church", or perceived right, even perfect doctrinal church compared to resting on the central perfect figure and Captain of our salvation. I would be critical of a Baprist or Lutheran etc also if they were not first in the latter group.

I enjoy dialogue on doctrine and practices and history etc. I believe that the Spirit dicerns all things and as such only reveals absolute truths (but also how to wisely apply).Just that I have not chosen to do so here in lieu of my above paragraph (hopefully wisely).

 

[Glenn]

Of course the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus. He established His Church, named Peter as its first leader and all the apostles were the first bishops, who went on to ordain successors and bishops for new dioceses. The Church wrote and canonized the new testament scriptures, and followed Jesus instruction to preach the gospel to the whole world. Protestantism did not arise until some 1500 years later.

Not quite that simple if one has been schooled all his life in a different perspective. There have been generations of debates between Protestant and Catholic scholars. The whole idea of catholic by Protestants has been interpreted to mean universal, so the primacy of a church in Rome seems to contradict that idea. As for Peter, Protestants interpret the Rock on which the Church is founded to be Peter’s prior profession of Jesus as the Christ–in other words, pointing to Christ as the Rock and not Peter.

I’m not saying that the Protestant position is correct here. I’m just saying that it is not easy for Protestants to reorient their perspectives on these issues.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Anyone can be a Christian, thanks be to God, but there is very obviously a distinction between the different “churches” and the true Church. Of course, Our Lord unifies us all, but protestants have too much of a skewed theology.

If you really can’t see an issue with there being a million protestant denominations and all have their own doctrines and interpretations idk what to tell you.

How many Jewish sects were there in Jesus’ day? Which ones did he exclude?

 

[Wannano]

strong text

, you cannot convert to Judaism, only by marriage

Pax

Please provide documentation that affirms this statement.

 

[julietteamdg]

My apologies, I was incorrect. I was under that impression, I believe I learned that somewhere awhile back but I guess I misunderstood.
Thank you for correcting me God bless!

 

[julietteamdg]

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what you mean. I apologize if I was incorrect about something I said.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

So, I assume from this the Church believes that Protestants, though outside of the Roman Catholic Church, do have the Holy Spirit

Yes but as individuals not as Churches or Organizations. Which is very different from having Church of Christ and being joined to her.

I assume that Protestants can know the truth that is necessary for their salvation.

Technically it is not knowledge that saves us. Church is Ark of Salvation outside of which there is no Salvation… however that just means that everybody saved is automatically accepted into Catholic Church (all Saints are Catholic, but they didn’t have to be Catholic during life). However it is still Church of Christ through which Christ saves us.

In general, it seems that men can be guided into all Truth (eventually, not all at once) by the Holy Spirit, even though they are not in the Catholic Church

Yes, but if they are led to all Truth they are led to Catholic Church.

Of course that is all Catholic point of view.

Thing is… heresies are lies. Satan is father of lies. Satan wants to lead souls to damnation. Hence heresy is way to damnation. Not always but it clearly is how Satan wants to attack our souls.

As for Peter, Protestants interpret the Rock on which the Church is founded to be Peter’s prior profession of Jesus as the Christ–in other words, pointing to Christ as the Rock and not Peter.

Main point of this is that we know Simon is the Rock because his name was changed. If it didn’t change then Protestant doctrine would make more sense.

 

[BartholomewB]

I still have this deep-seated conviction that as a sinner, all I can do is lift my empty hands of faith to Jesus, that ultimately, all honor belongs to Christ.

That sounds to me like a very Catholic conviction. I can see nothing there that contradicts James 2:26.

James 2:26 RSVCE - - Bible Gateway

 

[BartholomewB]

and that they are our speared brethren;

Their punishment won’t be quite as dire as that, I hope!

 

[BartholomewB]

you cannot convert to Judaism, only by marriage

That is not strictly true. Statistically, I’m sure the great majority of conversions arise from marriage to a Jewish husband or wife, but there certainly are cases of people who convert simply out of religious conviction.

 

[Justin_Mary]

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what you mean. I apologize if I was incorrect about something I said.

I mean is it really a problem that there are so many divisions?

There was division in Jesus day, some believed in the resurrection, some did not. Some believed God is Father, some did not. Some worshipped on the Mountain their father’s taught them to, some worshipped in the temple. There were Pharisees, Sadducees, Edomites, Essenes, hermits, etc…

God gathered his people from all of these.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe in one God & He valued the sacrifice of the temple above all others. But He will gather His flock from where He will.

 

[Glenn]

Main point of this is that we know Simon is the Rock because his name was changed. If it didn’t change then Protestant doctrine would make more sense.

Yes, the typical Protestant position on this has never made much sense to me. From a plain reading of the text, it really seems that Jesus was saying something special about Peter.

 

[Glenn]

So, I assume from this the Church believes that Protestants, though outside of the Roman Catholic Church, do have the Holy Spirit

Yes but as individuals not as Churches or Organizations. Which is very different from having Church of Christ and being joined to her.

Yes, that is the way I understand the Catholic position–“that those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect communion, with the Catholic Church” (UR); and that for Orthodox churches, “this communion is so profound that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist” (CCC).

 

[Glenn]

In general, it seems that men can be guided into all Truth (eventually, not all at once) by the Holy Spirit, even though they are not in the Catholic Church

Yes, but if they are led to all Truth they are led to Catholic Church.

Of course that is all Catholic point of view.

Thing is… heresies are lies. Satan is father of lies. Satan wants to lead souls to damnation. Hence heresy is way to damnation. Not always but it clearly is how Satan wants to attack our souls.

I can see that. But again, we all start from different points. Yet Jesus promises that if we seek him we will find him. I am trying, the best I know how, to daily mortify my flesh and to be led by the Spirit. I have asked Christ to show me his Truth, and I have told him that I will follow that Truth whatever the cost. We are all sinners, not only from various denials of the Truth, but from our sinful misunderstandings of the Truth–vocalizing but not actually perceiving the crux of an essential doctrine. So the Spirit will always be digging deeper and deeper until he conforms us to the image of Christ.

What is important, I think, is the direction of our lives. Are we moving toward Christ and not away from him? So I am constantly challenging myself in regard to the last recorded question that Jesus asked Peter: “Do you love me?”

I can say, without doubt, that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, and that no man will come to the Father without him. I will stake my life on that proposition. Over the course of my studies, which have been long and often difficult, I am gaining a much better appreciation of Catholic doctrine. But I am still not ready to stake my life on some of those doctrines. So I will continue my studies and pray that the Holy Spirit will bring clarity.

God bless.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

I am trying, the best I know how, to daily mortify my flesh and to be led by the Spirit.

Then you are better than most of us.

I can say, without doubt, that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, and that no man will come to the Father without him. I will stake my life on that proposition.

Oh not just life my friend, but your eternal soul. And I think you have chosen right.

Over the course of my studies, which have been long and often difficult, I am gaining a much better appreciation of Catholic doctrine. But I am still not ready to stake my life on some of those doctrines. So I will continue my studies and pray that the Holy Spirit will bring clarity.

I think that is best position one can take.

God bless.

And you too.

 

[Montrose]

That is not strictly true. Statistically, I’m sure the great majority of conversions arise from marriage to a Jewish husband or wife, but there certainly are cases of people who convert simply out of religious conviction.

In 1961 Sammy Davis junior converted to Judaism and none of his wives were Jewish.

 

[tafan2]

Why is the use of the word Catholic so important? Don’t get me wrong, it is an important word, but why would one think it needed to be used from the very beginning. The word means universal, all-embracing. It’s use came about over time as the people in the early Church became more aware of what the Church was and how important that was. Certainly the apostles new the Church was universal, but it did not need to be stressed at the very beginning. To them the four marks of the Church would have been readily apparent. But when there became competing doctrines, then it had to be stressed. The name itself evolved.

Did Jesus use the word “Christian”? Did Peter use the word Christian? Did Jesus start Christianity if He never used that word?

 

[mcq72]

The name itself evolved.

Yes. Read an article that distinguishes from Latin use (universal) and the Greek katholikos (throughout the whole).

One is more inclusive/exclusive while the Greek not so much. That is one can take a sectarian view (the Latin-one turn of a compass, you are either in the circle or without), or the Greek - thru out whole (world).

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/catholic-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means_b_1978768