Catholic church moves service with rabbi outside

[stlouismb]

You are free to think what ever you like but Archbishop Burke was correct to do what he did. This woman supports ordination of women as Catholic priests which is none of her business as she is not Catholic or even Christian, she supports gay rights which the Catholic church is against, she supports abortion. Why should she be allowed to speak in a Catholic church. That would be like expecting a black Missionary Baptist church to allow a member of the KKK to speak or a synagog to allow a neo-Nazi to speak. If your friends left the church because of Archbishop Burke or other Bishops who were/are teaching the faith they were not Catholic in the first place.

Talve was told that the ordinations were not Catholic according to Burke, so what is the problem with hosting them? I have been to a MBC that invited the KKK to come and speak and it was a healing for everyone. To say my friends were not Catholic displays such arrogance. One of you will say it is impossible to judge the intent of Abp Burke’s heart, and then some of you turn around and judge my friends. This is how you expect to win souls? What happened to the message of offering the other cheek? Do good to those who hate you and despitefully use you?..?

I am greatly saddened to hear the anger and self-righteousness here. I pray for the Catholic Church to not become the next haven of extremist fundamentalism. This will be my Rosary intention for today.

Charity, Peace and Joy to you and yours, this Christmas.

Mike

 

[stlouismb]

Personally, I think we’d be better off if those who didn’t like Church teachings would just leave her and be done with it. Then we’d have a powerful organized minority.

How ludicrous! It is not about “not liking” the Church teachings. It is about Christian witness. There is more than one way to “teach” the Churches teachings. How about the Church’s teachings on works of mercy? Only extend mercy to those who hold a strict adherence to and submission to the Catholic Church? I have seen many here and on other threads who certainly don’t believe in charity without a litmus test any longer. That used to be a teaching of the Church. So very sad. You are already a minority and I pray you will stay that way.

 

[beckers]

It is truly unfortunate that Rabbi Talve’s hospitality was met with in-hospitality by the Bishop of Saint Louis. It makes the Catholic church appear increasingly petty, irrelevant and heavy handed. Many of my friends have left the Church due in part to the present and previous Bishops of this diocese. I think that Archbishop Burke continues to miss many pastoral and teaching moments.

As the article mentioned even the Jews are upset with this rabbi. She is trying to force her views upon a religion that she doesn’t even belong to.

I can’t believe you think the bishop is the problem. The man is standing up for what the church teaches, which is his job as the shepherd of St. Louis. Don’t blame the church or the bishop for your friends leaving the church. It’s a petty excuse to blame others when the problem lies within. If you friends have a problem align themselves to God teachings and instead choose to reject the church then they have exercised their own free will. It was their decision and no one made it for them. If they understood the Eucharist then I don’t see how anyone could leave no matter a bad priest, bad singing, etc…The fact is you get to accept Jesus body and blood into your body. Nothing on the earth could be greater than that.

 

[mschrank]

I have no time for wishywashy general feel good garbage that you could get from anyone and is not even about the Truth, but just about general human spirituality.

I want the real, living, God… I want to know about him. I don’t care about good will and fuzziness and vague feelings of religion that seem to fill in the cracks when you think about how dying will take away your access to Ikea and good beer.

 

[beckers]

How ludicrous! It is not about “not liking” the Church teachings. It is about Christian witness. There is more than one way to “teach” the Churches teachings. How about the Church’s teachings on works of mercy? Only extend mercy to those who hold a strict adherence to and submission to the Catholic Church? I have seen many here and on other threads who certainly don’t believe in charity without a litmus test any longer. That used to be a teaching of the Church. So very sad. You are already a minority and I pray you will stay that way.

Yes we are called to be Witness to others but how is it witnesses when you don’t stand up for you know is the Truth? You are asking the bishop to allow a women who is teaching things contrary to the teaching and faith of the Church into a building on church property. By allowing her into the building it shows support of her position. So now instead showing and being firm in catholic teaching the Bishop by this act of “charity” is looking wishy wash and is leading his people into confusion. How is that good for the diocese or the Catholics in the area? Being a witness and charitable doesn’t mean that we disregard the truth just so people will like us.

 

[Lance]

Talve was told that the ordinations were not Catholic according to Burke, so what is the problem with hosting them? I have been to a MBC that invited the KKK to come and speak and it was a healing for everyone. To say my friends were not Catholic displays such arrogance. One of you will say it is impossible to judge the intent of Abp Burke’s heart, and then some of you turn around and judge my friends. This is how you expect to win souls? What happened to the message of offering the other cheek? Do good to those who hate you and despitefully use you?..?

I am greatly saddened to hear the anger and self-righteousness here. I pray for the Catholic Church to not become the next haven of extremist fundamentalism. This will be my Rosary intention for today.

Charity, Peace and Joy to you and yours, this Christmas.

Mike

I don’t expect to win souls by making them feel good, I expect to win them by telling them the truth. If they chose to not believe or ignore the truth they will have to answer to God. I refuse to have to answer to Him about letting someone continue in their sins because it would have hurt their feelings to correct them. It is not doing someone good to allow them to continue in their sins. We don’t allow people to drive at whatever speed they like on the expressway, we enforce speed laws for their own good. We should enforce the laws of the Catholic church inside building that belongs to the Catholic church.

 

[stlouismb]

By allowing her into the building it shows support of her position.

This is essentially where we disagree. I do not believe Catholics are so gullible. Rather, it shows an openness to what good things and consistent things this Rabbi and others can speak into our lives, that are not contrary to Church teaching. I don’t think anyone is “confused” by allowing someone of a different opinion to speak about their opinion. The other side of this is, Susan made no reference to any difference she may have with the Catholic Church. Her talk was about repentance and preparation for the Messiah. By my estimation, she was a more powerful witness to the truth of the Gospel, than Burke, who I do believe confuses people.

I guess I give more credit to the intelligence of the average Catholic than do you. OK.

 

[stlouismb]

I don’t expect to win souls by making them feel good, I expect to win them by telling them the truth. If they chose to not believe or ignore the truth they will have to answer to God. I refuse to have to answer to Him about letting someone continue in their sins because it would have hurt their feelings to correct them. It is not doing someone good to allow them to continue in their sins. We don’t allow people to drive at whatever speed they like on the expressway, we enforce speed laws for their own good. We should enforce the laws of the Catholic church inside building that belongs to the Catholic church.

There is more than one way to win souls and to influence enemies. Burke chose one, which you agree with. I choose another.

Peace,
Mike

 

[beckers]

This is essentially where we disagree. I do not believe Catholics are so gullible. Rather, it shows an openness to what good things and consistent things this Rabbi and others can speak into our lives, that are not contrary to Church teaching. I don’t think anyone is “confused” by allowing someone of a different opinion to speak about their opinion. The other side of this is, Susan made no reference to any difference she may have with the Catholic Church. Her talk was about repentance and preparation for the Messiah. By my estimation, she was a more powerful witness to the truth of the Gospel, than Burke, who I do believe confuses people.

I guess I give more credit to the intelligence of the average Catholic than do you. OK.

She speaks the truth and the bishop doesn’t? You are a very confusing person to even beggining to talk to you because your logic is mind boggling.

Your asking and expecting Bishop Burke to respect her opinions. He did. He asked her not to ordain these two women.He didn’t go barging into her house and demand change but asked her. Instead she not only allowed them to be ordained in her building but then she wants to continue to speak her opinion and be an influence over his flock that he is suppose to be leading? And you don’t think people are going to be confused? I know the intelligence of the average catholic. They believe that Birth Control is okay and abortion can’t be too wrong because people who claim to be catholic support and flaunt it in the public (insert your favorite catholic politican). The Bishops MUST take a PUBLIC stance against those things that mislead the flock. It’s their job.

 

[mschrank]

LOL, I read this thread again and I actually misunderstood it before- this is about

a) A woman rabbi
and b) Women priests

c) Jews do not believe Jesus was the high priest
d) …

I don’t even need to go on… seriously, I think we should ignore this looney tunes stuff.

If I went around wearing a sandwich board and saying “I AM!” and trying to turn water into wine, people would put me in a mental hospital. This is where people like this Rabbi and their followers belong.

Either there or in a classroom and be taught that “something cannot be, and not be at the same time”.

We should just laugh at these people in the same way Elijah laughed at the priests of Baal… pray harder Ms. Rabbi, maybe your gender-neutral god is sleeping! LOL! Of course, keep the scissors away, we wouldn’t want them to harm themselves!

 

[estesbob]

There is more than one way to win souls and to influence enemies. Burke chose one, which you agree with. I choose another.

Peace,
Mike

Do you believe the Catholic Church should ordain women

 

[stlouismb]

She speaks the truth and the bishop doesn’t? You are a very confusing person to even begin to talk to you because your logic is mind boggling.

Your asking and expecting Bishop Burke to respect her opinions. He did. He asked her not to ordain these two women. He didn’t go barging into her house and demand change but asked her. Instead she not only allowed them to be ordained in her building but then she wants to continue to speak her opinion and be an influence over his flock that he is suppose to be leading? And you don’t think people are going to be confused? I know the intelligence of the average catholic. They believe that Birth Control is okay and abortion can’t be too wrong because people who claim to be catholic support and flaunt it in the public (insert your favorite catholic politician). The Bishops MUST take a PUBLIC stance against those things that mislead the flock. It’s their job.

May be today’s Catholics are easily confused, as you admit to being confused by someone like me.

No, I am saying they both speak truths. I respect Burke for his positions–which are the Church’s positions.

What I was saying about Talve is that as a Jewish leader and minister, she might have some insight from the Jewish scriptures from which we might learn. Certainly not about abortion and/or other positions contrary to Church teaching. She has annually come to the Advent prayer service as she awaits the Messiah and to encourage Catholics to avail themselves of rites of penance and preparation. She did not come to speak about women’s ordinations, abortions yadayada… I do not think Catholics are gullible and do things or think things because other high-profile news makers (not just politicians) think or do them. I don’t think that because some priests abused parishioners and some Bishops participated, that the average Catholic believes it is therefore OK.

I think a public stance is perfectly fine. I just disagree with his method, not his message. Its OK. We can disagree on this.

Peace,
Mike

 

[stlouismb]

Do you believe the Catholic Church should ordain women

I don’t believe they should not ordain women. At this time, and presumably forever, according to JP2 and others, it cannot happen. I can live with that. Could you live with the idea that B16 or someone later decides the Church can ordain women and does so?

I am sure there is another thread for this aspect of this conversation. I am sure my views are adequately represented there.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t believe they should not ordain women. At this time, and presumably forever, according to JP2 and others, it cannot happen. I can live with that. Could you live with the idea that B16 or someone later decides the Church can ordain women and does so?

I am sure there is another thread for this aspect of this conversation. I am sure my views are adequately represented there.

So your relal beef is you agree with the Rabbi and no I could no more agree with a Pope who aproved 0rdainihg women as I would agree with a Pope who denied Jesus was the Son oif God. Since neither will ever happen I don’t worry about it

 

[beckers]

May be today’s Catholics are easily confused, as you admit to being confused by someone like me.

No, I am saying they both speak truths. I respect Burke for his positions–which are the Church’s positions.

What I was saying about Talve is that as a Jewish leader and minister, she might have some insight from the Jewish scriptures from which we might learn. Certainly not about abortion and/or other positions contrary to Church teaching. She has annually come to the Advent prayer service as she awaits the Messiah and to encourage Catholics to avail themselves of rites of penance and preparation. She did not come to speak about women’s ordinations, abortions yadayada… I do not think Catholics are gullible and do things or think things because other high-profile news makers (not just politicians) think or do them. I don’t think that because some priests abused parishioners and some Bishops participated, that the average Catholic believes it is therefore OK.

I think a public stance is perfectly fine. I just disagree with his method, not his message. Its OK. We can disagree on this.

Peace,
Mike

Bishop Burke did everything behind the scene. Ever time it’s been brought up someone has “leaked” what the bishop said. when he sent letters ex-communicating the women he did it privately. He also asked the Rabbi through a private letter to not allow ordaination of the women. He then called the church privately to say he did not approve of this one speaking at the church since her beliefs are contrary to catholic teaching. He hasn’t been trying to make this a messy affair. he has spoken the truth and gone about to protect his flock. If he doesn’t do it then who will. Also if her message is so important and so wise then she has her own building so why doesn’t she do a service at her own place? Then all of the catholics and her supporters can go hear her message there.

 

[stlouismb]

So your real beef is you agree with the Rabbi

Agree with her about what?

and no I could no more agree with a Pope who approved ordainihg women as I would agree with a Pope who denied Jesus was the Son of God. Since neither will ever happen I don’t worry about it

And…I don’t worry about either, either.

 

[stlouismb]

Bishop Burke did everything behind the scene. Ever time it’s been brought up someone has “leaked” what the bishop said. when he sent letters ex-communicating the women he did it privately. He also asked the Rabbi through a private letter to not allow ordination of the women. He then called the church privately to say he did not approve of this one speaking at the church since her beliefs are contrary to catholic teaching. He hasn’t been trying to make this a messy affair. .

This is not true. He regularly has a spokesperson issue statements about his “private communications”. No leaks, except by him and his office to the news outlets. Burke is often seeking media attention.

he has spoken the truth and gone about to protect his flock. If he doesn’t do it then who will.

Protected us from what? She did not attend the service to speak about her more controversial views.

Also if her message is so important and so wise then she has her own building so why doesn’t she do a service at her own place? Then all of the catholics and her supporters can go hear her message there

Can we learn nothing from our Jewish brothers and sisters. Have we become that arrogant that we will take their scriptures and not think they may have some insight to them? Come on. I didn’t say her message was SO important. It is an annual gathering of mutual respect. What is the latest litmus test to allow a guest speaker at a parish. I have heard Talve say more than once, she agrees with the Church more than she disagrees with the Church. Is that enough? It is better than some Catholics I read on this forum.

 

[Brendan]

How ludicrous! It is not about “not liking” the Church teachings. It is about Christian witness. There is more than one way to “teach” the Churches teachings. **How about the Church’s teachings on works of mercy? **.

OK, here is the Church’s teaching on the Spiritual Works of Mercy

» Reproach the sinful

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

Seems to me that ArchBishop Burke is doing a great job with Mercy, he both Reproaches those who sin (such as the so called women priests) and Instructs the Ignorant, such as Rabbi Sue.

She is clearly ignorant of Catholic teachings in this matter, and +Burke has done a great job of clearly laying out Church teaching in this matter; that is Mercy

 

[stlouismb]

OK, here is the Church’s teaching on the Spiritual Works of Mercy

» Reproach the sinful

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

Seems to me that ArchBishop Burke is doing a great job with Mercy, he both Reproaches those who sin (such as the so called women priests) and Instructs the Ignorant, such as Rabbi Sue.

She is clearly ignorant of Catholic teachings in this matter, and +Burke has done a great job of clearly laying out Church teaching in this matter; that is Mercy

bold, mine for emphasis.

In the Catholic school I went to he might get a D out of pity. Also, don’t pretend that your list is the Church’s Teaching on the Spiritual Works of Mercy, It is a list. The teachings are voluminous. I am not arguing with anybody here. I just prefer a different approach. One which you obviously don’t employ nor embrace. OK:shrug: I get it.

 

[beckers]

This is not true. He regularly has a spokesperson issue statements about his “private communications”. No leaks, except by him and his office to the news outlets. Burke is often seeking media attention.
Protected us from what? She did not attend the service to speak about her more controversial views.**Can we learn nothing from our Jewish brothers and sisters. **Have we become that arrogant that we will take their scriptures and not think they may have some insight to them? Come on. I didn’t say her message was SO important. It is an annual gathering of mutual respect. What is the latest litmus test to allow a guest speaker at a parish. I have heard Talve say more than once, she agrees with the Church more than she disagrees with the Church. Is that enough? It is better than some Catholics I read on this forum.

Really???

No one is saying we can’t learn from our Jewish brothers and sisters. She wasn’t allowed to speak because she was Jewish but because of her views, her stances, rejection of showing respect etc… You have to admit that even the other jewish leaders have distant themselves from her.

you can’t not ask someone to openly support someone who not only disagrees with you but goes out of their way to disrespect you. There is turning the other check and there is standing up for the truth.

I believe you just don’t like the Bishop and would be upset with his position no matter what he did. I for one respect him. He stands up for what the church believes. He is not afraid to ruffle feathers when it means proclaiming the truth and neither did Jesus (john chapter 6 or any time he corrected a rabbi). Go read his document on the Eurcharist and public politicans. Its a wonderful document. You should be praying for your bishop instead of bashing him.