Catholic Church officials 'obsessively' hid child sex abuse

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False statement sir. Personal attacks are not allowed on this forum last I checked.

I object to your post and will report it unless you retract.
As you see fit. I did not know opposing Catholicism for an agnostic was an attack.

At least I did not call you or any statement you made “ignorant” like you did redrosetea. But if you think I have crossed a line that you have maintained, feel free to report what you want. It is the icon with the “!”.
 
As you see fit. I did not know **opposing Catholicism **for an agnostic was an attack.

At least I did not call you or any statement you made “ignorant” like you did redrosetea. But if you think I have crossed a line that you have maintained, feel free to report what you want. It is the icon with the “!”.
There you go again. I am opposing Catholicism you say.

At least that is a bit softer than accusing me of being anticatholic. Niether charge holds any truth to it whatsoever.
 
Pruned of 14 posts. Stop the bickering or the thread will be closed.
 
And I do believe the catalyst has been the modernism that was falsely interpreted by Vatican ll. When they opened up the windows to let the fresh air in, they instead let the stink (the “smoke”) of Satan in. The time line of Vatican ll and the sex abuse scandal seems eerily suspicious. Not that it didn’t happen before Vatican ll, but it seems that the bulk of abuse happened in that same period.
That is not the experience in the Church in Ireland.
 
Well with a proper Bishop doing his job it shouldn’t be necessary for the prolife movement to do anything other than protect the unborn

I suspect this will never happen again because there are all kinds of safeguards in place that were never used before…
I agree with your first statement, and share your hope with the second.
 
redrosetea;5993887:
One crime or sin never excuses another…to abandon the unborn would be a great sin

]

Yes indeed. When 75 to 80% of Catholics in the pew do nothing but fulfill their obligation of Mass on Sunday, even if that, and call themselves “Catholic”, I would say that the Catholic Church needs a very big shot in the arm. There are very few people who call themselves Catholic that are really passionate about their faith and their church. The pews are empty, even on Sunday. Lukewarmness is a huge problem within the Church of Christ, and what Jesus hates the most. And I do believe the catalyst has been the modernism that was falsely interpreted by Vatican ll. When they opened up the windows to let the fresh air in, they instead let the stink (the “smoke”) of Satan in. The time line of Vatican ll and the sex abuse scandal seems eerily suspicious. Not that it didn’t happen before Vatican ll, but it seems that the bulk of abuse happened in that same period.
I believe you are exactly right. The complacency of Catholics these days can be very discouraging. I always hold out hope that when the younger Catholics get married and have children, they will begin to attend church again - though, getting married and having children doesn’t seem to be all that popular anymore, either. 🤷
 
Absolutely not! Never!

The Church of Jesus Christ must never cede any territory, geographical or moral, to the Great Adversary that is the author of this mess.
You decry “ceding any territory…to the Great Adversary,” but how is that to be accomplished – send in the troops? And what troops? The drain of priests from the developing world to priest-deprived parishes in the U.S. and Europe is a problem both on the giving end (developing countries need priests even more badly than the wealthier countries that are recruiting them) and on the receiving end (priests who don’t speak the local language well and don’t understand its culture). In the past year I’ve attended Sunday masses in California led by young priests from India, the Philippines and India who couldn’t speak English well. The sermons were really awful, which wasn’t their fault really. And I couldn’t help but wonder how their home dioceses felt about their coming to the U.S. to minister. They have too many priests in India, the Philippines and Vietnam? Do affluent parishes in the U.S. need them more? That’s hard to believe.

Many European countries have empty churches and few vocations to the priesthood and religious life, a problem that predated the clergy sex abuse scandals. The Catholic message just isn’t attractive to young people in affluent countries, where the Church is concentrating its resources. Christ’s message has its greatest appeal among the truly poor in India, Africa, etc. While the clergy sex abuse scandal has certainly had a tremendous impact on vocations, the erosion in vocations in Ireland probably had more to do with economic improvement than anything else.

I don’t have any ready solutions, but I don’t think rants about secularism, homosexuality and abortion have any real bearing on the problem. The fact is that the gospel has always been welcomed most by the poor. To my mind the Church should refocus its efforts on the developing world. My heart goes out to the Irish, who are suffering right now. But the vocation crisis there, and here, and in Europe, is a function of affluence more than sexual sin and abysmal leadership.
 
We all need to take heart Christ promised us the gates of hell would not prevail against the church

We have read the end of the book…and it is a happy ending for those who obey God
 
I
You decry “ceding any territory…to the Great Adversary,” but how is that to be accomplished – send in the troops? And what troops? The drain of priests from the developing world to priest-deprived parishes in the U.S. and Europe is a problem both on the giving end (developing countries need priests even more badly than the wealthier countries that are recruiting them) and on the receiving end (priests who don’t speak the local language well and don’t understand its culture). In the past year I’ve attended Sunday masses in California led by young priests from India, the Philippines and India who couldn’t speak English well. The sermons were really awful, which wasn’t their fault really. And I couldn’t help but wonder how their home dioceses felt about their coming to the U.S. to minister. They have too many priests in India, the Philippines and Vietnam? Do affluent parishes in the U.S. need them more? That’s hard to believe.

Many European countries have empty churches and few vocations to the priesthood and religious life, a problem that predated the clergy sex abuse scandals. The Catholic message just isn’t attractive to young people in affluent countries, where the Church is concentrating its resources. Christ’s message has its greatest appeal among the truly poor in India, Africa, etc. While the clergy sex abuse scandal has certainly had a tremendous impact on vocations, the erosion in vocations in Ireland probably had more to do with economic improvement than anything else.

I don’t have any ready solutions, but I don’t think rants about secularism, homosexuality and abortion have any real bearing on the problem. The fact is that the gospel has always been welcomed most by the poor. To my mind the Church should refocus its efforts on the developing world. My heart goes out to the Irish, who are suffering right now. But the vocation crisis there, and here, and in Europe, is a function of affluence more than sexual sin and abysmal leadership.
I know the Catholic Church isn’t ready for this, but one solution would be to let Nuns have more of a leadership role. This never would have happened to begin with if Nuns were the ones running things. There is not any scientific evidence showing that homosexual people sexually abuse children more than heterosexual people, but there is a lot of evidence showing that most sexual abuse of children is done by a male perpetrator. As far as all the physical and emotional abuse goes, I’m not sure if one gender does it more than the other. If you have PDF, you can read the Ireland Investigative Report. It says that there were over 1090 victims in Ireland at the hands of the Catholic Church. The abuse was far worse in Ireland than it was here in the United States.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/20_05_09_abuse.pdf
 
There are not enough nuns to do this…and some of them are not teaching pure Catholic doctrine to begin with

Some of them might not want to do this either

My kids had wonderful nuns as teachers and we all loved them…but things have changed
 
I

I know the Catholic Church isn’t ready for this, but one solution would be to let Nuns have more of a leadership role.
I really wouldn’t see anything wrong with that, but if I remember the report that I read earlier this year, in Ireland the nuns were a major part of the problem. When it comes to issues like oversight on charitable organizations or any group that takes care of children, there is no reason that oversight and leadership can not be performed by men or women, lay or clergy, church or government. What matters is that children are protected as much as possible.
 
I

I know the Catholic Church isn’t ready for this, but one solution would be to let Nuns have more of a leadership role. This never would have happened to begin with if Nuns were the ones running things. There is not any scientific evidence showing that homosexual people sexually abuse children more than heterosexual people, but there is a lot of evidence showing that most sexual abuse of children is done by a male perpetrator. As far as all the physical and emotional abuse goes, I’m not sure if one gender does it more than the other. If you have PDF, you can read the Ireland Investigative Report. It says that there were over 1090 victims in Ireland at the hands of the Catholic Church. The abuse was far worse in Ireland than it was here in the United States.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/20_05_09_abuse.pdf
I hate to burst your bubble, but some nuns have been a real problem in many ways. Their being female does not prevent them from abusing, or aiding the abuse of children.
 
Interestingly, despite the horrors of the clerical abuse scandal, people have, indeed, been listening to those in the Pro-Life movement; a majority of people in this country now describe themselves as pro-life:
gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx
Are you implying that pro-life people are pro-clerical abuse?

If not, stay focused on the topic at hand and don’t mix different problems into the same basket.

BTW, need I remind you that the murdering of the most innocents of the human race is more horrendous than the clerical abuse of children. At least thousands are murdered daily. On the other hand, can you find one child abused by a cleric daily?
 
Are you implying that pro-life people are pro-clerical abuse?

If not, stay focused on the topic at hand and don’t mix different problems into the same basket.

BTW, need I remind you that the murdering of the most innocents of the human race is more horrendous than the clerical abuse of children. At least thousands are murdered daily. On the other hand, can you find one child abused by a cleric daily?
I am pro life, and I still wince at a comparison you are attempting to make here.

One should not compare the two things, in order to make a point.

They are both abominable and despicable.

Your God can sort out which is worse, because we can only guess at how he looks at these things. We do know that he hates both things. I am not sure you can say he hates one over the other.

I have met other pro lifers that seem to care more about the unborn than their very own born. Fanaticism is rampant in all religions.

The attitude of some really radical pro lifers can be that they don’t care what happens after the baby is born. Even their very own.
 
Picking up on this… here in Irelnad, the Sisters were the worst abusers.

And in less than ten years there will be none left in Ireland either.

I am saddened at the complacency of afew of the posts here; I posted a long post on the “reputation in tatters” thread… don’t know how to link to that?

As Yellow Belle and I agree, there are few who see the situation here for the obscenity it truly is. And I do not use that word lightly, believe me.

The Irish Church is rotten to the core and not following its own teachings. And the vatican seem to do nothing.

Ireland is small and intensely RC; a Church on every corner. And there are very, very few priests who did not knwo what was happening and who fell short of trying to say anything. A few quit; others were transferred to where they could do no harm. ie they were silenced. Religious ditto. And many of course had no home or work or skills.

It was all calculated and orchestrated

The refrain here now is “Too much money and too much power.”

No holiness left.

Only the love of Jesus among a few.

I also referred to 2 online films… “sex in a cold climate” that was the foundation for the “Magdalen Laundries”

So many here; their faith is not in Jesus but in the Church.
I

I know the Catholic Church isn’t ready for this, but one solution would be to let Nuns have more of a leadership role. This never would have happened to begin with if Nuns were the ones running things. There is not any scientific evidence showing that homosexual people sexually abuse children more than heterosexual people, but there is a lot of evidence showing that most sexual abuse of children is done by a male perpetrator. As far as all the physical and emotional abuse goes, I’m not sure if one gender does it more than the other. If you have PDF, you can read the Ireland Investigative Report. It says that there were over 1090 victims in Ireland at the hands of the Catholic Church. The abuse was far worse in Ireland than it was here in the United States.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/20_05_09_abuse.pdf
 
Amen, amen and amen.

Too much theorising… here we face the totality of the reality in the faces and lives we walk among,

So many ostriches in Ireland!
That is not the experience in the Church in Ireland.
 
I am pro life, and I still wince at a comparison you are attempting to make here.

One should not compare the two things, in order to make a point.

They are both abominable and despicable.
Of course both are abominable and despicable but it is a fact that one is more horrendous than the other and the reason is exactly what I’ve mentioned.
Your God can sort out which is worse, because we can only guess at how he looks at these things. We do know that he hates both things. I am not sure you can say he hates one over the other.
My GOD hates all sins and any mortal sin would still condemn a person to hell. Your government may give a death sentence to a murderer but not a child molester. Yeah, that’s how bad taking a life is.
I have met other pro lifers that seem to care more about the unborn than their very own born. Fanaticism is rampant in all religions.
You implying that being pro-life is synonymous to being religious. Not necessarily and fanaticism is not necessarily bad either.
 
Are you implying that pro-life people are pro-clerical abuse?

If not, stay focused on the topic at hand and don’t mix different problems into the same basket.

BTW, need I remind you that the murdering of the most innocents of the human race is more horrendous than the clerical abuse of children. At least thousands are murdered daily. On the other hand, can you find one child abused by a cleric daily?
You have *totally *misunderstood, and misinterpreted my post.

I was replying to a previous post (#18) that implied that, due to the clerical abuse scandal, no one was listening to the pro-lifers in the Church, and that the pro-life movement should redirect its attention to the scandal.

My link showed that - contrary to what the poster said - the pro-life movement hasn’t been hurt, and, in fact, the majority of people in this country now describe themselves as “pro-life.”

As I have been active in the pro-life movement since the 1970s, there is no need for you to “remind” me of anything about the horrors of abortion.
 
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