Catholic Church Position on Immigration

[MelanieAnne]

Well, actually, a drivers license cannot prove legal status. Many illegal immigrants came to the US legally at one time so they were able to get a drivers license, and if they stayed past their visa, they still have a valid license. Either the law is ineffective because illegal immigrants can get past a check with a license, or it is impossible to be enforced, because few people carry a passport or a birth certificate around.

You cannot LEGALLY get a permanent driver’s license without establishing your legal right to be in this country. That does not mean that illegals don’t have fake driver’s licenses, because they do. As well as other false, forged, or stolen, forms of ID.

But you were using yourself as an example. And your Driver’s License, which I assume you would carry if you were operating a vehicle, or even if you flew on an airplane, would be sufficient to stop any further inquiry into your legal status. And the only way you would even be asked for ANYTHING would be in connection with being stopped in connection with ANOTHER matter.

Example ~ You run a red light. A policeman pulls you over for THAT. You produce your Driver’s License, plus, perhaps, other documents typically produced in that sort of situation ~ your vehicle registration, your proof of insurance. Those are the “papers” that many misguided people are making such a fuss about. Pretty silly isn’t it? To make a fuss about something that we all think of as routine? That would be the end of any inquiry as to your immigration status. PERIOD. It’s in the law.

To continue the example, ~ if you hadn’t run a red light, and so you hadn’t been pulled over for that, then the law states that you cannot be questioned about your immigration status AT ALL. It’s in the law. The people that claim that people will just be randomly stopped for no other reason than suspicion that they are here illegally are, at best, wrong, and at worst, deliberately giving out false information. So when President Obama says that you could be stopped while taking your child across the street to buy an ice cream he is giving out false information.

The Immigration issue is a very complex one, and there are many opinions about what should or should not be done to reform the law and improve the current situation. But we need to stick to the facts, and some in the government and the media are not doing that. This does nothing to help and a lot to harm, by stirring people up, perhaps deliberately, based on false information. When that happens, I have to wonder what the agenda is of the person giving out false information. I suspect they are not doing so to help any immigrant.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

You cannot LEGALLY get a permanent driver’s license without establishing your legal right to be in this country. That does not mean that illegals don’t have fake driver’s licenses, because they do. As well as other false, forged, or stolen, forms of ID…

If you come here on a visa, lets say a student visa (or any visa that allows you to be here for an extended time), you can get a regular drivers license.

If I want to get a drivers license I can provide: (lets say I’m not here permanently)
- passport (foreign) or cancelled check [this category provides written signature]
- anything that provides date of birth (passport, birth certificate, etc.)
- social security #
- proof of address

And, I’m set, so I can get my license…and if I overstay my visa, then i still have my license.

But when I renew it, all I need is my foreign passport/a cancelled check that provides written signature and proof of residency which could be a utility bill. Come on, there are plenty of loopholes that do not involve identity theft. We like to pretend the system is airtight, but the gov’t leaves loopholes so that illegal immigrants can pay taxes (instead of living here for free) and get licenses (instead of feeling like they can drive without certification).

 

[Nicea325]

I would be giving what city I live in and I won’t do that.

That is your choice.

I’m glad your city is bigger then mine, who cares how big it is.

Who cares how big it is? Then why mention Houston,if size has no bearing? Evidently you connect it to the number of illegals.

I didn’t mention history and what it was. You did. {TIME FOR A HISTORY LESSON}

I mentioned it as a point of reference.

You didn’t mention giving them their land back, I through that one in as a bonus

.

Okay.

You didn’t ask me to speak for others {IF SO MANY AMERICANS ARE USING THAT LINE OF JOBS ARE BEING TAKEN, THEN WHY IS IT REV KEV}

But apparently you are one who believes they are taking our jobs,yet you have not provided those jobs so many whine about.

I said visit a SCHOOL in a border town. DID YOU NOT SEE THE WORD SCHOOL INFRONT OF BORDER TOWN?

I have…and? My buddy is a teacher in Tijuana…what is your point?

Glad you got there so much, that don’t make you an expert. And what I say is also true

And living in Texas makes you one? What is true Rev? Your personal views about illegals? You have not given me one source to back up your percentages or the jobs they are taking away.

 

[Nicea325]

Not me I agree with what Arizona did. Its what our government should be doing and won’t do. They have the guts to say enough is enough. When they have drugs and people being smuggled in to this country. When a man was killed on his own property by a illegal because after numberous of times he went to the authorities and they turned a blind eye on it and now he’s dead. I’m sick and tired of this politicly correct stuff. The law is if you are involved in a police matter they have the right to ask you for proof of citizenship. If your a citizen you should feel good that they are doing something to stop the invation of illegal’s. Stop me all they want I have nothing to hide. Its the ones who have something to hide that don’t like it or want it. I had a boss who was from england and she carried her green card with her at all times. So what is the problem with proof. Enforcement is racist? Well the all the laws that are enforced would be considered racist. I got pulled over because I am white, black, hispanic, asian or what ever. I’m being fingered because of my race. See racism has to do with all races not just some. There are white racists, black racists, hispanic racists, asian racists.
They broke the law by coming here, by sneeking in, going against our laws of immigration. See there is a right way and a wrong way, they choose the wrong way and should not be rewarded.
We did not give them the opportunity they took it without premission. They snuck in and want everything because they broke the law. Lets not get legal immigration mixed up with illegal immigrants which seems to be happening.

If people camped on your property you could do something like call the police. but with illegals we are powerless. So it depends on the person camping on your property if illegal nothing can be done but if someone else something can be done. You are right as far as illegals go that the individual is powerless even on his own property, One knows that first hand but he can’t talk He’s dead by a illegal who was on his property.

Yes we should help the needy, but even Jesus went according to the law of the land. Didn’t he say give to Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is God’s. If its the law of the land then you go by it. There is nothing saying you can’t help them in their own country. See that covers both helping the needy and going by the laws.

Thank you for your honest answer.

Yep! The last state in the union to accept Martin Luther as a national holiday. Arizona is full of white racists and I would know because I lived there for 5 years. Arizona’s law will not fly for long before it is headed to the Supreme Court.

 

[MelanieAnne]

If you come here on a visa, lets say a student visa (or any visa that allows you to be here for an extended time), you can get a regular drivers license.

If I want to get a drivers license I can provide: (lets say I’m not here permanently)
- passport (foreign) or cancelled check [this category provides written signature]
- anything that provides date of birth (passport, birth certificate, etc.)
- social security #
- proof of address

And, I’m set, so I can get my license…and if I overstay my visa, then i still have my license.

But when I renew it, all I need is my foreign passport/a cancelled check that provides written signature and proof of residency which could be a utility bill. Come on, there are plenty of loopholes that do not involve identity theft. We like to pretend the system is airtight, but the gov’t leaves loopholes so that illegal immigrants can pay taxes (instead of living here for free) and get licenses (instead of feeling like they can drive without certification).

My point was that the hysteria over racial profiling and “papers” is groundless.

What you have written here does not change that, so I don’t know what your point is in bringing this stuff up.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

My point was that the hysteria over racial profiling and “papers” is groundless.

What you have written here does not change that, so I don’t know what your point is in bringing this stuff up.

Well, you said a drivers license would be adequate in order to prove legal status, and I was just demonstrating that it wasn’t. Maybe I misunderstood what you said but I was answering to this comment:

You cannot LEGALLY get a permanent driver’s license without establishing your legal right to be in this country. That does not mean that illegals don’t have fake driver’s licenses, because they do. As well as other false, forged, or stolen, forms of ID…

Obviously, illegal immigrants can have drivers licenses that are not forged or stolen. It also shows that if a drivers license counts as proper ID in Arizona, then many illegal immigrants will be able to get away with it. The law has holes in it, it doesn’t work. And as for it being racist. Who is going to be asked to prove their citizenship? Probably not the blonde-haired blue-eyed person, but the person that looks Hispanic. I’m not saying the world isn’t racist, but the government should try its best not to be.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Yep! The last state in the union to accept Martin Luther as a national holiday. Arizona is full of white racists and I would know because I lived there for 5 years. Arizona’s law will not fly for long before it is headed to the Supreme Court.

If the law did what way too many people falsely say it did, you might be right. Since the Arizona law is being blatantly misrepresented by the President and various parts of his administration, I wouldn’t be so sure. And if anyone cares to check into the lawsuit that has already been filed, contrary to all the rhetoric, there is not a word about racial profiling in it. That’s because the Justice Department knows that the Arizona law specifically bans racial profiling. This is a typical tactic used by politicians ~ say one thing and do another. The question you have to asked yourself is why?

I think that the issue of Immigration, and resolving the status of millions of people, is far to important to be demagogued by anyone for political purposes and that is just what is happening. In order to resolve this issue, we need to have open, honest, transparent dialog, not demagoguery deliberately designed to stir up emotions. But demagoguery is all we’re seeing so far, at least from the Obama administration. It’s clear that this isn’t to help any immigrant, but to further some political agenda.

 

[Nicea325]

If the law did what way too many people falsely say it did, you might be right. Since the Arizona law is being blatantly misrepresented by the President and various parts of his administration, I wouldn’t be so sure. And if anyone cares to check into the lawsuit that has already been filed, contrary to all the rhetoric, there is not a word about racial profiling in it. That’s because the Justice Department knows that the Arizona law specifically bans racial profiling. This is a typical tactic used by politicians ~ say one thing and do another. The question you have to asked yourself is why?

I think that the issue of Immigration, and resolving the status of millions of people, is far to important to be demagogued by anyone for political purposes and that is just what is happening. In order to resolve this issue, we need to have open, honest, transparent dialog, not demagoguery deliberately designed to stir up emotions. But demagoguery is all we’re seeing so far, at least from the Obama administration. It’s clear that this isn’t to help any immigrant, but to further some political agenda.

No racial profiling as of now,does not mean it will not happen.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Yep! The last state in the union to accept Martin Luther as a national holiday. Arizona is full of white racists and I would know because I lived there for 5 years. Arizona’s law will not fly for long before it is headed to the Supreme Court.

Arizona is a wonderful state filled with good people. I am starting to think you lack perspective young Mr. Nicea.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Well, you said a drivers license would be adequate in order to prove legal status, and I was just demonstrating that it wasn’t. Maybe I misunderstood what you said but I was answering to this comment:

Obviously, illegal immigrants can have drivers licenses that are not forged or stolen. It also shows that if a drivers license counts as proper ID in Arizona, then many illegal immigrants will be able to get away with it. The law has holes in it, it doesn’t work. And as for it being racist. Who is going to be asked to prove their citizenship? Probably not the blonde-haired blue-eyed person, but the person that looks Hispanic. I’m not saying the world isn’t racist, but the government should try its best not to be.

My point was that a driver’s license is adequate under the Arizona law to terminate any further inquiry as to a person’s immigration status. That item is typically produced when someone is pulled over for a traffic violation. That is the typical scenario under which someone might be asked about their immigration status, since it has to be in connection with a stop for ANOTHER MATTER. Production of a driver’s license puts an end to such questioning, it’s in the Arizona law.

The hysteria about the Arizona law is based on false information.

We would do much better to drop all the nonsense over the Arizona law and focus on the real situation, which is millions of people who are here whose status needs to be resolved. That cannot be accomplished while everyone is distracted by the sort of demagoguery that is currently going on, by the President and his Administration blatantly promoting false information and preying on people’s fears and emotions. Clearly, the situation of the immigrants is not important to them or they would stop the nonsense and make an HONEST attempt to resolve the issue. The fact that they don’t, that they continue to spread false information, shows that they don’t really care about immigrants at all, but are merely using them to further their political agenda. It’s a very cynical, anti-human tactic.

 

[MelanieAnne]

No racial profiling as of now,does not mean it will not happen.

You can say that about ANY law. Should we sue every state, city and county over all their laws, just in case some misguided law enforcement person might do such a thing?

The fact of the matter is that the Arizona law specifically BANS racial profiling. US (Federal) law does not. Should the Justice Department file a lawsuit over federal law? It’s far more likely to allow racial profiling since it doesn’t specifically ban it.

This is the sort of silliness that results from the sort of demagoguery we’re seeing from the current administration over the Arizona law.

 

[Nicea325]

Arizona is a wonderful state filled with good people. I am starting to think you lack perspective young Mr. Nicea.

Oh yeah…so wonderful it took how long to adopt Martin Luther as a national holiday? What wonderful people. No offense rightlydivide,but it may be you who lacks insight.

 

[Rightlydivide]

He was a pervert and a communist sympathizer. Seriously…thats just a fact. Now Rosa Parks, thats who they should have had a holiday for.

 

[Rightlydivide]

It just occured to me. You are not like an Obama supporter because I would only spend valuable time debating a real Catholic who is against abortion. I assume you are but I just want to make sure.

 

[Nicea325]

You can say that about ANY law. Should we sue every state, city and county over all their laws, just in case some misguided law enforcement person might do such a thing?

The fact of the matter is that the Arizona law specifically BANS racial profiling. US (Federal) law does not. Should the Justice Department file a lawsuit over federal law? It’s far more likely to allow racial profiling since it doesn’t specifically ban it.

This is the sort of silliness that results from the sort of demagoguery we’re seeing from the current administration over the Arizona law.

Racicism is against federal law…period.Simply because AZ has laws against racial profiling does not mean no one does it or will do it. Sue? No! Fire the person and move on.

The current administration’s view is not the question at hand,but AZ’s approach. If one is white,more than likely,they do not view it as racism.But if one is of Hispanic origin,they will and that is the source of tension,not Obama’s view.

 

[Nicea325]

He was a pervert and a communist sympathizer. Seriously…thats just a fact. Now Rosa Parks, thats who they should have had a holiday for.

U-huh…and GW Bush was a dictator…that is just a fact! Obama a communist sympathizer? Please!

 

[MelanieAnne]

Racicism is against federal law…period.Simply because AZ has laws against racial profiling does not mean no one does it or will do it. Sue? No! Fire the person and move on.

The current administration’s view is not the question at hand,but AZ’s approach. If one is white,more than likely,they do not view it as racism.But if one is of Hispanic origin,they will and that is the source of tension,not Obama’s view.

The Arizona Law that you have said will be ruled on by the Supreme Court, the very law itself, BANS racial profiling. Because of that, when the US Department of Justice filed their lawsuit, there was not a word about racial profiling in it, because they know they would lose on that basis. They say one thing, do another. A tactic that has been used over and over again & unless someone checks into the facts, they can be fooled by the rhetoric.

As I have said before, this issue is too important to be used as a political football by the Obama Administration. By misrepresenting the Arizona law, by endless demagoguery of this issue, the Administration is clearly showing that the interests of the immigrants are not their priority. It’s a cynical, anti-human tactic.

We need honesty and transparency to resolve this issue, not dishonesty and demagoguery to advance a political agenda. It’s too bad that the Obama Administration’s only interest in this issue is not the situation of the illegal/undocumented immigrants in this country but their own political power.

 

[Nicea325]

The Arizona Law that you have said will be ruled on by the Supreme Court, the very law itself, BANS racial profiling. Because of that, when the US Department of Justice filed their lawsuit, there was not a word about racial profiling in it, because they know they would lose on that basis. They say one thing, do another. A tactic that has been used over and over again & unless someone checks into the facts, they can be fooled by the rhetoric.

As I have said before, this issue is too important to be used as a political football by the Obama Administration. By misrepresenting the Arizona law, by endless demagoguery of this issue, the Administration is clearly showing that the interests of the immigrants are not their priority. It’s a cynical, anti-human tactic.

We need honesty and transparency to resolve this issue, not dishonesty and demagoguery to advance a political agenda. It’s too bad that the Obama Administration’s only interest in this issue is not the situation of the illegal/undocumented immigrants in this country but their own political power.

Frankly…I not a supporter of the Republicans or Democracts, I find both parties all about their own pathetic parties interest. Both have burned out their welcome, it is time for major change and centralizing the massive beaucracy.

Nothing will change until our government is reformed internally and with our laws.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

My point was that a driver’s license is adequate under the Arizona law to terminate any further inquiry as to a person’s immigration status. That item is typically produced when someone is pulled over for a traffic violation. That is the typical scenario under which someone might be asked about their immigration status, since it has to be in connection with a stop for ANOTHER MATTER. Production of a driver’s license puts an end to such questioning, it’s in the Arizona law. .

What I’m getting about this law is that whatever it is, but it’s plainly dumb. If you produce a driver’s license, they stop looking, even though you may be here illegally. If a police man stops you while driving, you need to show ID (as if you didn’t before…). What exactly does this law do? As far as I’m seeing nothing…but instead its causing anguish to many people who may be profiled because of their race, who are legally here. You can say as much as you want that profiling is illegal, but individual officers bring in their own prejudice and the very nature of this law attests to its subjectivity.

 

[Rightlydivide]

U-huh…and GW Bush was a dictator…that is just a fact! Obama a communist sympathizer? Please!

No MLK. Thats common knowledge.