Catholic Church Position on Immigration

  • Thread starter Thread starter CHESTERTONRULES
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Really not lying it don’t speak it.

No they need to learn english period.

No that is not what I’m saying. Most of them do know english but refuse or don’t want to speak it.
As you refuse to learn Spanish.

Why are you any better?

Did God reveal to you that English was His sacred language? Because you and a lot of other Anglo-nationalists sure talk as if He did.

Do unto others as you would have them to unto you. That means that if you would appreciate them learning English, you learn Spanish. That’s a command straight from Jesus.

Edwin
 
I did not say it had much to do with the high unemployment but they are taking jobs away.

Why ain’t I complaining about China stealing Americans jobs. Simple answer, its not the topic.

Why should I go out and learn their language? I don’t live in Mexico or any other country. If I go and live in Mexico or any other country would they all learn english? Simple answer, NO. Would I have to learn Spanish or the language of the country, YES. They need to learn our language if they want to live here just like we would have to learn their language if we want to live there.
There were Spanish-speakers in your part of North America long before there were English-speakers. I’m not sure that matters–what matters is who is here now, for the purposes of Christian charity. But if you want to start the whole “who has the right to set the rules” argument, it won’t go well for you as a Texan unless you hold to the devilish doctrine that might makes right.

Edwin
 
Sad, but true, actually. The FBI taped all his calls, and apparently he was having an affair.
Since when does having an affair (reprehensible as it is) make one a Communist sympathizer? That is the charge to which I was responding. (I’m not sure what RightlyDivide meant by “pervert,” but I won’t argue over whether adultery is a perversion!)

I know he had at least one affair–that’s not what I was talking about.

Edwin
 
Since when does having an affair (reprehensible as it is) make one a Communist sympathizer? That is the charge to which I was responding. (I’m not sure what RightlyDivide meant by “pervert,” but I won’t argue over whether adultery is a perversion!)

I know he had at least one affair–that’s not what I was talking about.

Edwin
I’ve started ignoring accusations of people being Communist sympathizers. I was born in a communist country and I’m fairly certain no one can justly compare Obama or MLK to Ceaucescu or Stalin or Mao. Whatever… everyone slightly leftist is accused of being communist, i just can’t take it seriously anymore 🙂
 
My wife, growing up in Baguio, Philippines spoke (and still speaks) three languages: Ilocano, Tagalog, and English. When she came to the States she was blown away that we pander to one ethnic group–Hispanics, and yet farsi, arabic, hindi, tagalog, and so many other languages are ignored. She wondered and still wonders why everything is catering to one group if indeed we are a plurality? She also wonders why it’s so hard for someone to learn English? In the Philippines there are many languages–Ilocano, Pangasinense, Campangpangan, Vasayan, and about five or six others coupled with Igorot languages. The filipinos used common sense and realized that, each dialect is fine, but the entire nation needed a common tongue–so they chose the language used around Manila and its environs–Tagalog. One common language to unite everyone. What’s so wrong with that? Why do liberals always get so hot around the collar when a person defends the notion, which is common sensical, that we should use the language that our Founding Fathers used and that we have used for hundreds of years in this country as a common tongue? There is always the insinuation that someone is a hillbilly or unsophisticated bigot when he or she sticks up for English literacy and a common language? I never hear anyone saying that Spanish, Chinese, Arabic, Farsi, Tagalog and the rest should be illegal to speak. They simply want each of those groups to know their own language AND English as the common denominator. What’s so un-Christian and wrong about that? Why are you trying to make this a moral lesson for the Rev implying that Jesus would be angry with him and that “do unto others” has anything to do with languages? It’s goofy?

And the Rev. makes a good point about Spanish-speakers. As a teacher, I wish I had a dollar for every time we had a parent claim they can’t speak English, require us to translate everything and (being bilingual in Spanish holding a Spanish-speaking credential) ask me to speak in Spanish only to hear them turn around and start speaking to you in English, talking in English to other parents, and miraculously they know both languages, I’d be loaded. We always have these parents that supposedly don’t know the language, and a few times I have started to speak to them in English instead of Spanish and they follow everything I say and respond very well.

I had two girls in my class in the last two years, sisters, from Mexico. They came to our school in fourth and fifth grades respectively. Within one year their English was immaculate. You can’t believe how these girls outpaced the white kids and blew 'em away. Their mom, who refused to even try to speak English (thanks to a partronizing principal who demands we do everything in Spanish 24/7), when put into the situation, will speak passable English.

Why is it a racist or a nationalist backwardness to want us all to have a common denominator and just respect our own cultural ethnic languages within our households or ethnic communities? Why is it un-Christian to expect foreigners to learn English? For elitist P.C. types I think the learn-English request is too cliche and it’s an automatic instinct to think one is picking on the immigrant. It’s the P.C. axons and dendrites, the nerves just jerk and react to anything about English-only? My wife speaks with no filipino accent at all in English and she accepts that as a huge compliment when told that. And she’s also proud of her own two ethnic languages she speaks with her family on the phone and in the Phils. I don’t see what’s so wrong with that?
As you refuse to learn Spanish.

Why are you any better?

Did God reveal to you that English was His sacred language? Because you and a lot of other Anglo-nationalists sure talk as if He did.

Do unto others as you would have them to unto you. That means that if you would appreciate them learning English, you learn Spanish. That’s a command straight from Jesus.

Edwin
 
There were Spanish-speakers in your part of North America long before there were English-speakers. I’m not sure that matters–what matters is who is here now, for the purposes of Christian charity. But if you want to start the whole “who has the right to set the rules” argument, it won’t go well for you as a Texan unless you hold to the devilish doctrine that might makes right.

Edwin
The government (of the people) has the right to set the rules.
 
The transnational have America set up with no official language.

I worked among foreigners and we all spoke a common language.

Again, the liberal culture has brought expectations down to little for people to assimilate here…so America seems to be just a money making entity, no obligation to assimilate and care for our poor…I have seen this attitude with some legal immigrants.

Anyway, the Church does call on immigrants to respect their host country. It is not just about money…

Don’t argue about money as the bottom line … it is about our common humanity and respect…and to look at people’s intentions of why they came here illegally. I saw a video of the Arizona border taken only several months ago in March…and there must be some kind of militant agenda to see people so motivated to come here.

It is the mentality that made our country. Look at the borders, see one side a desert and our side prosperty…you can’t ignore the sensibilities of common people locally affected by this form of militancy.

You can’t go back to the Spanish War either…because you have two different mentalities at work…people are in a continual state of movement and flux…it is a reality of life.
 
Good points. It does seem the States have become more a money-making enterprise than anything. And when people come here, many embrace our NFL, our clean streets and great laws and our justice system, education system, opportunities, and culture BUT they are just not fired up with patriotism and the full realization that a patriot has. What I’m trying to say is they love the perks but don’t realize that they should be patriotic and thankful to the source of the perks, the United States of America.

But I do see a double standard. For example, in my area you’ll hear a lot of whites get REALLY bent out of shape about people having a mexican flag in their garage or people pulling for team mexico in the world cup, what have you. HOWEVER, when all the Dutch folks in our area, all Americans with strictly Dutch ancestry (mostly dairy folks) were in the newspaper cheering for the Netherlands in the World Cup, that was considered cute and a logical development. Why is it ok for the Dutch to root for a foreign country but not for the Mexicans? I think a touch of racism informs our patriotic sensibilities at time, myself included. It’s ok for the filipinos to pull for Manny Pacquiao but not for Mexicans to pull for their boxers…

ideally I’d like to see them ALL pull for Americans in all events first and foremost!
The transnational have America set up with no official language.

I worked among foreigners and we all spoke a common language.

Again, the liberal culture has brought expectations down to little for people to assimilate here…so America seems to be just a money making entity, no obligation to assimilate and care for our poor…I have seen this attitude with some legal immigrants.

Anyway, the Church does call on immigrants to respect their host country. It is not just about money…

Don’t argue about money as the bottom line … it is about our common humanity and respect…and to look at people’s intentions of why they came here illegally. I saw a video of the Arizona border taken only several months ago in March…and there must be some kind of militant agenda to see people so motivated to come here.

It is the mentality that made our country. Look at the borders, see one side a desert and our side prosperty…you can’t ignore the sensibilities of common people locally affected by this form of militancy.

You can’t go back to the Spanish War either…because you have two different mentalities at work…people are in a continual state of movement and flux…it is a reality of life.
 
If it is all about money, there won’t be much left for anyone…pay back time.
 
Good points. It does seem the States have become more a money-making enterprise than anything. And when people come here, many embrace our NFL, our clean streets and great laws and our justice system, education system, opportunities, and culture BUT they are just not fired up with patriotism and the full realization that a patriot has. What I’m trying to say is they love the perks but don’t realize that they should be patriotic and thankful to the source of the perks, the United States of America.

But I do see a double standard. For example, in my area you’ll hear a lot of whites get REALLY bent out of shape about people having a mexican flag in their garage or people pulling for team mexico in the world cup, what have you. HOWEVER, when all the Dutch folks in our area, all Americans with strictly Dutch ancestry (mostly dairy folks) were in the newspaper cheering for the Netherlands in the World Cup, that was considered cute and a logical development. Why is it ok for the Dutch to root for a foreign country but not for the Mexicans? I think a touch of racism informs our patriotic sensibilities at time, myself included. It’s ok for the filipinos to pull for Manny Pacquiao but not for Mexicans to pull for their boxers…

ideally I’d like to see them ALL pull for Americans in all events first and foremost!
IT’s not racism…it’s a perception of ‘roots.’ I’ll bet those Dutch you speak of are not agitating for open borders, or insisting that we give New York back to them. The problem here is that those immigrants from the south are here, in great part, illegally, and once here want to have all the benefits of our culture (as you mention above) while at the same time replacing our culture with theirs.

It’s not that they ALSO display the Mexican flag and root for Mexico in soccer games. It’s that they display the Mexican flag INSTEAD of the US one.

Down here, on May 5th (Cinco de Mayo) we had a couple of riots because there were kids who flew the US flag, and objected to the school flying the Mexican flag INSTEAD of the US flag. Those of us who pointed out that 1: Cinco de Mayo is not a Mexican holiday and 2. similar days that celebrate the heritage of other groups (Like St. Patrick’s day) are not celibrated by replacing the US flag with the Irish one were called ‘racist’ and ‘bigot.’

I’ll bet your Dutch friends would never replace the American flag with the Dutch one, would they?
 
My wife, growing up in Baguio, Philippines spoke (and still speaks) three languages: Ilocano, Tagalog, and English. When she came to the States she was blown away that we pander to one ethnic group–Hispanics, and yet farsi, arabic, hindi, tagalog, and so many other languages are ignored. She wondered and still wonders why everything is catering to one group if indeed we are a plurality? She also wonders why it’s so hard for someone to learn English? In the Philippines there are many languages–Ilocano, Pangasinense, Campangpangan, Vasayan, and about five or six others coupled with Igorot languages. The filipinos used common sense and realized that, each dialect is fine, but the entire nation needed a common tongue–so they chose the language used around Manila and its environs–Tagalog. One common language to unite everyone. What’s so wrong with that? Why do liberals always get so hot around the collar when a person defends the notion, which is common sensical, that we should use the language that our Founding Fathers used and that we have used for hundreds of years in this country as a common tongue? There is always the insinuation that someone is a hillbilly or unsophisticated bigot when he or she sticks up for English literacy and a common language? I never hear anyone saying that Spanish, Chinese, Arabic, Farsi, Tagalog and the rest should be illegal to speak. They simply want each of those groups to know their own language AND English as the common denominator. What’s so un-Christian and wrong about that? Why are you trying to make this a moral lesson for the Rev implying that Jesus would be angry with him and that “do unto others” has anything to do with languages? It’s goofy?

And the Rev. makes a good point about Spanish-speakers. As a teacher, I wish I had a dollar for every time we had a parent claim they can’t speak English, require us to translate everything and (being bilingual in Spanish holding a Spanish-speaking credential) ask me to speak in Spanish only to hear them turn around and start speaking to you in English, talking in English to other parents, and miraculously they know both languages, I’d be loaded. We always have these parents that supposedly don’t know the language, and a few times I have started to speak to them in English instead of Spanish and they follow everything I say and respond very well.

I had two girls in my class in the last two years, sisters, from Mexico. They came to our school in fourth and fifth grades respectively. Within one year their English was immaculate. You can’t believe how these girls outpaced the white kids and blew 'em away. Their mom, who refused to even try to speak English (thanks to a partronizing principal who demands we do everything in Spanish 24/7), when put into the situation, will speak passable English.

Why is it a racist or a nationalist backwardness to want us all to have a common denominator and just respect our own cultural ethnic languages within our households or ethnic communities? Why is it un-Christian to expect foreigners to learn English? For elitist P.C. types I think the learn-English request is too cliche and it’s an automatic instinct to think one is picking on the immigrant. It’s the P.C. axons and dendrites, the nerves just jerk and react to anything about English-only? My wife speaks with no filipino accent at all in English and she accepts that as a huge compliment when told that. And she’s also proud of her own two ethnic languages she speaks with her family on the phone and in the Phils. I don’t see what’s so wrong with that?
👍👍
 
IMHO…it is not Governments job to preserve any selected culture over ALL other cultures. Preserving one’s culture…is an Individual’s Responsibility. Don’t make me pay tax monies In many schools, we are required to take Spanish - Not as an elective - but a mandatory ] to preserve their culture:(
 
Two additional point --is that Mexico will imprison anyone for years for illegal entry, and what is it with Mexico that people want to flee it?
I have read your past post regarding other topics and respected them until I came across these and it’s sad that you would have this type of mentality towards the body of Christ just because they are from a different country.

In my Church there a lot of un documented people that come here to works and offer something better for there families and that also attend church because they believe in God and give thanks to God for this opportunity.

There is also bad people that come to harm this county like there is also bad americans. Most of my friends went to Iraq and fought for this country and they said the majority where hispanics. Two of them were illegal immigrates serving this country so why don’t you complain about that? It must be nice having your kids at home while a so called illegal alien is fighting for your freedom in another country, and when he gets back he has to be subject to your attacks and your so called patriotism.

You should ask your dad or grandparents why they fled from there country and you might have an answer to your question. 👍

God Bless
 
IT’s not racism…it’s a perception of ‘roots.’ I’ll bet those Dutch you speak of are not agitating for open borders, or insisting that we give New York back to them. The problem here is that those immigrants from the south are here, in great part, illegally, and once here want to have all the benefits of our culture (as you mention above) while at the same time replacing our culture with theirs.

It’s not that they ALSO display the Mexican flag and root for Mexico in soccer games. It’s that they display the Mexican flag INSTEAD of the US one.

Down here, on May 5th (Cinco de Mayo) we had a couple of riots because there were kids who flew the US flag, and objected to the school flying the Mexican flag INSTEAD of the US flag. Those of us who pointed out that 1: Cinco de Mayo is not a Mexican holiday and 2. similar days that celebrate the heritage of other groups (Like St. Patrick’s day) are not celibrated by replacing the US flag with the Irish one were called ‘racist’ and ‘bigot.’

I’ll bet your Dutch friends would never replace the American flag with the Dutch one, would they?
Its called patriotism and everyone has it. In the world cup I saw Mexican flags, Argentina flags, and from England also and other countries its all a freedom of expression isn’t it? Like the way you express you religious belief knocking on peoples houses and trying to convert them to your religion there is no difference or is there?

5 de Mayo, and St Patrick’s day is just advertisement like 4th of july and memorial or Labor day is. Beer companies want to sell and the people want to buy, that all it is advertising and it works they make millions and we have fun.

This is a diverse culture since it was established with a lot of different traditions at least here in so cal thats how its been it was Mexico territory before the treaty of Guadalupe. So even when the west cost became American territory there was Mexicans and other nationalities here so these are our roots.😃

God Bless
 
Good points. It does seem the States have become more a money-making enterprise than anything. And when people come here, many embrace our NFL, our clean streets and great laws and our justice system, education system, opportunities, and culture BUT they are just not fired up with patriotism and the full realization that a patriot has. What I’m trying to say is they love the perks but don’t realize that they should be patriotic and thankful to the source of the perks, the United States of America.

But I do see a double standard. For example, in my area you’ll hear a lot of whites get REALLY bent out of shape about people having a mexican flag in their garage or people pulling for team mexico in the world cup, what have you. HOWEVER, when all the Dutch folks in our area, all Americans with strictly Dutch ancestry (mostly dairy folks) were in the newspaper cheering for the Netherlands in the World Cup, that was considered cute and a logical development. Why is it ok for the Dutch to root for a foreign country but not for the Mexicans? I think a touch of racism informs our patriotic sensibilities at time, myself included. It’s ok for the filipinos to pull for Manny Pacquiao but not for Mexicans to pull for their boxers…

ideally I’d like to see them ALL pull for Americans in all events first and foremost!
The only person we should be thankful for is God. I do embrace a lot of things from this country like the Jets you know Mark Sanchez is mexican decent 👍. And I am a Big Dodger fan and who could ever forget Fernando Mania 👍 also mexican.When you go to Baja California there a lot of white people with american flags outside there house and no one complains or says anything about it.

Me and my buddies went to Frisco a couple years ago to watch a Dodger vs Giants game. We had our Dodger flag out and it was all cool and it was in your territory as you already know there is a lot of Dodger fans in the bay area I bet the only thing you do is nod you head.👍

God Bless
 
I have read your past post regarding other topics and respected them until I came across these and it’s sad that you would have this type of mentality towards the body of Christ just because they are from a different country.
This isn’t about compassion OR Religion…except insofar as it is about morality and ethics. One does not, if one wants to begin a new life, do so by making the very first act you take breaking the laws of the new nation you want to live in.

Catholicism, for instance, is a world wide church; far more influential in the world than Mormonism (my own faith). Since when is it the job of the USA to solve problems that Catholics should solve for their own people—WHERE THEY ARE???

I
n my Church there a lot of un documented people that come here to works and offer something better for there families and that also attend church because they believe in God and give thanks to God for this opportunity.
And they are breaking the law when they do that. They are breaking the law, cutting in line…taking the place of, and making it much harder for, those who want to come here legally.

They are, in fact, stealing.
There is also bad people that come to harm this county like there is also bad americans. Most of my friends went to Iraq and fought for this country and they said the majority where hispanics. Two of them were illegal immigrates serving this country so why don’t you complain about that? It must be nice having your kids at home while a so called illegal alien is fighting for your freedom in another country, and when he gets back he has to be subject to your attacks and your so called patriotism.
Why yes… especially here in California, where there is a problem with gang members who join up so that they can get military training.

The fact is, according to the military, 1 in 100 soldiers are classified as ‘citizenship unknown,’ which doesn’t mean that they are illegal. It simply means that the armed services doesn’t know. Most of those listed as ‘unknown’ are actually citizens.

What IS known is that of those who are ‘citizenship unknown’ have the highest percentage of gang bangers, troublemakers and deserters. So, while there are some illegal aliens who serve honorably, most…don’t.
You should ask your dad or grandparents why they fled from there country and you might have an answer to your question. 👍

God Bless
Well, lessee…most of my own ancestors have been here since the Mayflower and that era. and we all know why those guys came over here. My CHILDREN’S ancestors, on the other hand, were brought here as slaves, have been here since their folks came over the Bering land bridge or whatever, or as Spanish Conquistadors.

Or legally through Ellis Island.

Next?
 
Eddy,

What I am reacting to is that America is bad, people want to come here, and there is no focus on the corruption in Mexico, and why people are fleeing there, and equal pressure on Mexico that is being given our country.

Furthermore, I am in an interracial marriage, my husband from overseas. Part of it was painful because I came across legal immigrants who, to my perception, were here only for the money and said, although they like me they had bad feelings for Americans in general.

My father-in-law himself told me the USA was too generous in bringing in all sorts of people, while it neglected its own, and he did not understand why. He graduated at the top of his class from the top university in his country, and he came here assisting the law office at our major NW university, as well as a law office whose partner was a former governor of our state. He was also head of his ethnic community in the international district in the city. So I would think his dismay of our immigration laws is something to take note.

Essentially, I experienced witnessing alot of abuse of citizenship on a personal level. I didn’t want my kids anywhere near any of it, left my roots and moved to another state. I used to be very liberal and compassionate person.

But after all of that, I don’t look at ethnic groups anymore as victims or heroes, but look at people on an individual basis. I have met excellent illegal immigrants whose behavior and attitude was better than those legal people I met. So I look at what is objectively bad and what is objectively good. And you can’t blame America for everything.

Because America is prosperous and the other side of the border is not, people coming in to take over justifying their behavior using the Spanish War are of the same caliber of the Anglo plunders they hate. Plundering on both sides.

As a Catholic, you do have to look at Mexico. Eddy, did you know that Mexico was the center of learning in the New World, thanks to Bishop Zumarraga…who made it a right women and girls have an education, hundreds of years before America’s women? There Mexican Indian professors who ran universities in conjunction with the clergy. There was not the dire poverty that we have been seeing now since the Masonic Revolution.

I have studied Mexican history all the way back to the early Indian tribes. I think there is something great inside Mexican culture that can benefit us, but as the Church says, and in particular Pope Benedict and the American bishops, people are to respect the host country, learn the language, assimilate, and they must stand behind those applying for legal citizenship…the rule of law…Mexico would never tolerate open borders as America is doing now.
 
A couple of more comments here…when I was attending ministry classes with my archdiocese, we had a Hispanic woman who headed that ministry in her parish. We got along well and I really enjoyed hearing her share. I later told her of my private study of Catholic history in Mexico as one just usually hears that bad. I was very impressed and appreciated people coming here from that heritage.

Last year I joined a fraternity that meets in a local parish…It has a large Hispanic presence with both Anglo and Hispanic priests. A Hispanic priest is in charge of our group and he wants to build bridges between the two cultures. But the first day I came to start, the woman I had met years ago stomped of the steps. She didn’t say hello or how was I doing, she said, “This is now a Hispanic parish!!” and stormed off.

I asked an Anglo woman in the fraternity awhile later if the parish was now Hispanic, and she gave a puzzled look and replied no.

Then I was at our fraternity meeting picnic. All the Hispanics were there and no Anglos. So I went there and sat with them. A few minutes later, they all started having a conversation in their language excluding me while I am sitting with them at the table. They all dress well and have good jobs … here. I saw this same behavior by some immigrants back home who would talk incessantly on their jobs in front of American workers…and I suggested to one who was defending this behavior that he turn on a radio with a foreign language at the same decibels as they would be talking and see if they could concentrate. It is just plain rude.

So back at the picnic, I said a prayer and then started to ask them spiritual questions reflected in this fraternity, how do they live it out, and then they all stopped and we began to focus on the Lord and our common bond.

There is also a lack of leadership in our culture to help people assimilate because people don’t know what to do in these situations.

As I said before, when I worked overseas, the moment a person came into the room who spoke a different language — we were from different countries, we would all switch to the common language we used in our ministry. I was at an American sisters’ home, and if a sister or visitor came into the room, the topic immediately stopped and a new one started to include the newcomer…

We need to work on our common etiquette in this melting pot America.
 
What you just quoted was intended for KathleenGee in the bottom is you quote. 😃
This isn’t about compassion OR Religion…except insofar as it is about morality and ethics. One does not, if one wants to begin a new life, do so by making the very first act you take breaking the laws of the new nation you want to live in.
But if we can’t be given the opportunity then we have to look for it don’t we. Yea we do break the laws but so does the american employer when they hire us and pay us be low minimum wage and by threatening us to call immigration. Even them knowing the law not willing to exercise it.
This is the 1 for you 😛
]Its called patriotism and everyone has it. In the world cup I saw Mexican flags, Argentina flags, and from England also and other countries its all a freedom of expression isn’t it? Like the way you express you religious belief knocking on peoples houses and trying to convert them to your religion there is no difference or is there?
5 de Mayo, and St Patrick’s day is just advertisement like 4th of july and memorial or Labor day is. Beer companies want to sell and the people want to buy, that all it is advertising and it works they make millions and we have fun.
This is a diverse culture since it was established with a lot of different traditions at least here in so cal thats how its been it was Mexico territory before the treaty of Guadalupe. So even when the west cost became American territory there was Mexicans and other nationalities here so these are our roots.
God Bless

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top