Catholic Church Position on Immigration

[rev_kevin]

Then provide the source,I am curious to see what agency provided the information.Okay,but simply because it says one must be bilingual does not mean it is a legal law. Nothing prevents one from applying for the job. That is the U.S.A. Texas? Time for a history lesson,Texas at one time belonged to who? Spain and Mexico? Hispanics had been on Texas long before any white person set foot on it. Generation after generation of Spanish and Mexicans have lived there.Is that a reason for them not to learn English? Nope! Finally,the entire U.S. at one time belonged to Native Americans,so don’t forget who lived here centuries before any U.S. American.

Yes be proud to be American,because I too love this country,but how easily so many Americans forget that at one time white people were ILLEGAL ALIENS on this land.

Pointing fingers? That is right! The goverment because they are the ones who fail to reform laws and set up the systems,not immigrants. I got news for you, I was raised in San Diego and currently live in Riverside County,which north of SD County,so I live in state much more populated than Texas,so I understand the many on-going issues.

Oh please! That is such a cop out! Tell me what JOBS are they taking Rev Kevin? Washing plates? Back breaking work in the agricutural fields? Janitorial work? If so many Americans are using that line of jobs are being taken,then why is it Rev Kev I do not see to many PROUD AMERICANS running out there to get those jobs? On top of that,one born here speaks fluent English,so what is the problem?

So Rev Kev,what is stopping those so concerned Americans whining about illegals taking our jobs? I do not see any white Americans or black Americans eager to get those jobs during these tough times. Bunch of baloney!

Not giving my city name but its outside of Houston which is a sancturary city. Do the math.
Of course its not a legal law but it is a requirement of the job which has not been the case 20-30 years ago. Sure it don’t stop anyone from applying but it does prevent them from getting the job which is my point, not the applying part.
Thanks for the history lession, like I didn’t know that already.

Ok so lets give them back their land that we took from them, what would happen then? Lets see, they would not be a part of the U.S., they would not have the benifits of the U.S. anymore, it would be a part of Mexico which they are trying to get away from, poverty would be the same as in Mexico, and so on. They would be no better off then when they left.

Now every job you listed I have done. I have been a dish washer, a ditch digger, a janitor, a builder, worked in the fields. I have been there. As far as the others, I can’t speak for them, ask them not me.

One’s born here do not always speak fluent english. Visit a school in a border town and you will see that what you are saying is not always true.

 

[rev_kevin]

1. According to the Center for Immigration studies ‘“there is little apparent relationship between recent immigration and unemployment rates at the regional, state, or county level.” Areas with high unemployment don’t necessarily have large numbers of recent immigrants, and vice versa — areas with many recent immigrants don’t necessarily have higher unemployment rates’
2. Mexicans stealing American jobs is nowhere near the problem of outsourcing to China or Taiwan which literally has destroyed cities and towns and lives. Why aren’t you complaining about the Chinese stealing American jobs, or about the rich business owners taking away American jobs?
3. Instead of complaining on a Catholic forum about how you need to learn spanish, go out and learn it. It will be more useful for you in the long term. Even if all the illegal immigrants disappear, you will still need to communicate with the legal ones. Your problem doesn’t seem to be with illegal immigrants, it’s with Hispanics.
4. I have family living both in San Diego and southern AZ and they have never complained as much as you do. Sure, they interact with illegal and legal immigrants daily, but they are more willing accept each immigrant as a person, not as a collective whole. From the way you are talking it sounds like you are grouping “illegal immigrants” into one group who conspired together to come to America to ruin your life. They all came individually, for their own reasons, and we need to treat them as individuals.

Forgive me if my language is harsh, I did debate in high school, I can’t resist …But if it seems offensive on your side of the screen, please forgive me.

I did not say it had much to do with the high unemployment but they are taking jobs away.

Why ain’t I complaining about China stealing Americans jobs. Simple answer, its not the topic.

Why should I go out and learn their language? I don’t live in Mexico or any other country. If I go and live in Mexico or any other country would they all learn english? Simple answer, NO. Would I have to learn Spanish or the language of the country, YES. They need to learn our language if they want to live here just like we would have to learn their language if we want to live there. I would not still need to know their language if they are legal, they would have enough respect for this country and speak english. If i’m not mistaken, which I could be, but you need to know english inorder to become a U.S. Citizen.
Now I do take offense to you saying my problem is not with illegals but with the hispanics. That is so far from the truth it makes me sick. Most of my friends are hispanic, their children call me their uncle. My 1st wife was 100% hispanic and my present wife is 1/2 hispanic. My children are part hispanic. So to say that I have a problem with hispanics would say that I have a problem with my children or their mother’s. My problem is only with the illegals no matter what country they are from.

Isn’t being a illegal immagrant one group? And being a legal immagrant another group? One goes by our laws and the other smub their nose at it. They come here for the same reason, to have a better life. They demand the same right as a citizen has but don’t want to be a citizen or don’t want to wait like the others are. Its give me what you have, I what what you got. Answer my question in post 35 honestly.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Why should I go out and learn their language? I don’t live in Mexico or any other country. If I go and live in Mexico or any other country would they all learn english? Simple answer, NO. Would I have to learn Spanish or the language of the country, YES. They need to learn our language if they want to live here just like we would have to learn their language if we want to live there. I would not still need to know their language if they are legal, they would have enough respect for this country and speak english. If i’m not mistaken, which I could be, but you need to know english inorder to become a U.S. Citizen.
Now I do take offense to you saying my problem is not with illegals but with the hispanics. That is so far from the truth it makes me sick. Most of my friends are hispanic, their children call me their uncle. My 1st wife was 100% hispanic and my present wife is 1/2 hispanic. My children are part hispanic. So to say that I have a problem with hispanics would say that I have a problem with my children or their mother’s. My problem is only with the illegals no matter what country they are from.

Isn’t being a illegal immagrant one group? And being a legal immagrant another group? One goes by our laws and the other smub their nose at it. They come here for the same reason, to have a better life. They demand the same right as a citizen has but don’t want to be a citizen or don’t want to wait like the others are. Its give me what you have, I what what you got. Answer my question in post 35 honestly.

Forgive my presumption on race, but your language was so hateful I logically jumped to that conclusion.

I’m going to go back to what I have been saying the whole time. Is there anything you can do? Do you want to teach ESL classes, or tutor non-english speakers? If so, then you will be making positive headway towards helping others and not needing to learn spanish. Otherwise, it seems that if you want to remain competitive in that job environment, learning spanish would be more useful than complaining. From what you said about all the Hispanic people in your family, though, I’m guessing you already know at least basic spanish so this is a mainly theoretical issue for you.

Even though knowing English is a requirement for citizenship, legal immigrants can chose to remain on visas or as residents and they are not required by law to learn english. This is their right, and i think that should be respected. Until the US declares a national language, you have no legal grounds for your griping.

Illegal immigrants pay taxes, well, a large number of them do. I know this because i have researched the topic and have spoken to several people who are not in the US legally. They don’t get access to any social services, sure you can argue that they show up in the ER and cost us billions, but that is only a problem because of the US’ failing health care structure and wouldn’t be an issue in most other countries.

They are trying to live a better life, and they are going about it the wrong way, but is there anything you can do about it? I’m going to keep on saying this: At the point where we can’t stop illegal immigration, then we continue to do what Jesus called us to: feed the hungry, help the sick, visit the imprisoned, regardless of their immigration status. These people may have sinned for crossing the border illegally, i don’t know, that’s God’s call. But are we going to shirk in our Christian duty on a technicality like that. It’s not our job to judge them, that’s God’s thing, and probably the law’s as well, it is our job to help them as Christians.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Two additional point --is that Mexico will imprison anyone for years for illegal entry, and what is it with Mexico that people want to flee it?

I can’t speak for every Mexican that has chosen to leave their country obviously. But the people I know that have left Mexico to come to the US have made several points:

1. 
   *]There is no public education after either 8th or 9th grade (I’ve gotten 2 different explanations of when public education ends there, but the bottom line is unless you can afford to pay for education, you cannot even graduate from High School in Mexico because the upper grades have to be paid for by the student’s family.)
   *]Because of the above, the opportunities of those who are not wealthy in Mexico are very limited. As a result, there is a great disparity between rich and poor.
   *]In most cases, people would be happy to stay in Mexico if there were opportunities available to them there similar to the opportunities available to people in our country. They would rather NOT leave, but their desire to improve their life is stronger.
   *]Some come here only to work and then return home. These people have no desire to stay permanently or bring their families. These people would be happy with a “guest worker” program.

 

[rev_kevin]

Forgive my presumption on race, but your language was so hateful I logically jumped to that conclusion.

I’m going to go back to what I have been saying the whole time. Is there anything you can do? Do you want to teach ESL classes, or tutor non-english speakers? If so, then you will be making positive headway towards helping others and not needing to learn spanish. Otherwise, it seems that if you want to remain competitive in that job environment, learning spanish would be more useful than complaining. From what you said about all the Hispanic people in your family, though, I’m guessing you already know at least basic spanish so this is a mainly theoretical issue for you.

Even though knowing English is a requirement for citizenship, legal immigrants can chose to remain on visas or as residents and they are not required by law to learn english. This is their right, and i think that should be respected. Until the US declares a national language, you have no legal grounds for your griping.

Illegal immigrants pay taxes, well, a large number of them do. I know this because i have researched the topic and have spoken to several people who are not in the US legally. They don’t get access to any social services, sure you can argue that they show up in the ER and cost us billions, but that is only a problem because of the US’ failing health care structure and wouldn’t be an issue in most other countries.

They are trying to live a better life, and they are going about it the wrong way, but is there anything you can do about it? I’m going to keep on saying this: At the point where we can’t stop illegal immigration, then we continue to do what Jesus called us to: feed the hungry, help the sick, visit the imprisoned, regardless of their immigration status. These people may have sinned for crossing the border illegally, i don’t know, that’s God’s call. But are we going to shirk in our Christian duty on a technicality like that. It’s not our job to judge them, that’s God’s thing, and probably the law’s as well, it is our job to help them as Christians.

Point out the hate to me please. I hate no one.
I don’t teach ESL but my church does and I have no problem with that, at least the ones attending the classes are making the attempt to learn english.

No I don’t know not even the basics of spanish. I speak 0.

Why should we or I compete with them in a english speaking country, shouldn’t they compete with us and learn english? i know a lady who don’t speak english and when she askes me to do something in spanish and I don’t understand she looks at me like you should know what I’m saying. She has taken ESL classes but refuses to speak english.

Having a visa is not the same as becoming a citizen, when the visa is up they are to go home but once again they don’t and stay illegally then.

Sure some pay taxes when they go to the store. As far as social services, oh ya they do get it through their children who were born here. I know because I deal with the social services. Other countries are telling us not to use their health care system.

Answer my question in post 35

 

[rev_kevin]

I can’t speak for every Mexican that has chosen to leave their country obviously. But the people I know that have left Mexico to come to the US have made several points:

1. 
   *]There is no public education after either 8th or 9th grade (I’ve gotten 2 different explanations of when public education ends there, but the bottom line is unless you can afford to pay for education, you cannot even graduate from High School in Mexico because the upper grades have to be paid for by the student’s family.)
   *]Because of the above, the opportunities of those who are not wealthy in Mexico are very limited. As a result, there is a great disparity between rich and poor.
   *]In most cases, people would be happy to stay in Mexico if there were opportunities available to them there similar to the opportunities available to people in our country. They would rather NOT leave, but their desire to improve their life is stronger.
   *]Some come here only to work and then return home. These people have no desire to stay permanently or bring their families. These people would be happy with a “guest worker” program.

1. 
   This is true, but it cost them several thousands of dollars to come to here, wouldn’t that money they have to spend to come here go toward the education? They can spend the money to come here but not on their education. They want it free from us.
   
   Instead of protesting in our streets, demanding that we give them everything a citizen of the U.S. has, why don’t they protest in their streets for a better country. Why don’t they try to improve their country?

 

[PeaceSerenity]

No I don’t know not even the basics of spanish. I speak 0.

Really! I spent one week in Mexico and I already know how to ask little kids if they want to play with me, and how to get seconds on lunch

Why should we or I compete with them in a english speaking country, shouldn’t they compete with us and learn english? i know a lady who don’t speak english and when she askes me to do something in spanish and I don’t understand she looks at me like you should know what I’m saying. She has taken ESL classes but refuses to speak english.

Well, obviously complaining about it isn’t going to make all the non-english speaking people disappear. Sure, it’s not fair, but it seems to be true in the area where you live. From what you described, you need to know spanish to get a job, so learn spanish.

Having a visa is not the same as becoming a citizen, when the visa is up they are to go home but once again they don’t and stay illegally then

.

Even so, it proves my point. People with visas and greencards can stay in the country and work without knowing english. So are you saying you are okay with people who live here legally and don’t know english, but it only bothers you when they are here illegally.

Sure some pay taxes when they go to the store. As far as social services, oh ya they do get it through their children who were born here. I know because I deal with the social services. Other countries are telling us not to use their health care system.

No, I meant real taxes, as in April 15th Tax Day taxes. We had this conversation a few pages back. Illegal immigrants can apply for ITIN’s to pay taxes with, without actually having to declare their legal status and get deported. A lot of them pay taxes, and it adds up to quite a lot of money. Plus the large majority get no benefits: no voting, mostly no social services (unless they have kids…okay), etc.

Answer my question in post 35

Aww, come on, you’re really making me go look for it. Okay, lets see. Hey, I wasn’t even a part of the convo back then!

Is this the question you are refering to? “What would you do? Would you let them stay? If so, why? If not, why?”

If so, I’ll just repeat what I just keep on saying. Illegal immigration is not a good idea, people shouldn’t do it, it’s illegal. The government should do something about it, okay? On the other hand, Me, as an individual cannot stop illegal immigration, so the question is what can I do/what can the church do. We can help people who need help, regardless of their immigration status. We can be understanding and not judge them, because I’m sure they have enough **** in their life as is. As captain jack sparrow said, there’s only one rule in life “What a man can do, and what a man can’t do”…we can’t stop the problem individually, but we can help those around us who need it, without all the judgment and criticism.

 

[MelanieAnne]

. The fact that they don’t have an SSN doesn’t hurt any Americans because the system is already overloading…the less people have it the better, actually.

One of the seldom discussed aspects of illegal immigration/undocumented workers is the identity theft embedded in the system.

Unless someone is engaged in criminal activity or is working “under the table”, you generally have to have a social security number in order to work in the US. Therefore, illegal/undocumented workers use stolen numbers.

While it is true that they do have withheld social security taxes from which they will never benefit, the harm that this does to law-abiding Americans can be immense. And just because it is not reported in the news does not mean it is not occurring.

First, your social security number is a key identifier on anyone’s credit report. If someone is using someone else’s social security number, the credit report of the valid holder of that social security number can be destroyed, and it can take hundreds of hours of time, and sometimes a lot of money, to correct the problem. It is impossible to say that this does not hurt Americans.

Another example are those who are receiving social security payments, either because they have reached retirement age or they are disabled. If someone uses their social security number to work, it can affect the payments to the retired or disabled law-abiding US citizen. This happened in my own family. My brother’s wife was illegal and used a stolen social security number. She adopted the name and identity of a US citizen and used it as her own. The person whose social security number she used was retired. Once my sister-in-law began working using the stolen social security number, the social security payments of the law-abiding retired US citizen were stopped. Somehow, the woman whose retirement was cut off tracked my sister-in-law down and was so upset at her loss of income she began making death threats. Imagine your own situation if suddenly your only source of income was cut off because someone else had stolen your social security number and was using it? It is impossible to say that this does not hurt Americans.

In summary, identity theft/stolen social security numbers are a huge problem, one that may not get a lot of discussion in the news, but causes huge problems and hurts literally millions of Americans. This is an extremely complex problem and it is simply wrong to say that US citizens are not hurt by the fact that illegal/undocumented workers don’t have SSN’s. The opposite is true.

 

[rev_kevin]

Really! I spent one week in Mexico and I already know how to ask little kids if they want to play with me, and how to get seconds on lunch

Well, obviously complaining about it isn’t going to make all the non-english speaking people disappear. Sure, it’s not fair, but it seems to be true in the area where you live. From what you described, you need to know spanish to get a job, so learn spanish.

.

Even so, it proves my point. People with visas and greencards can stay in the country and work without knowing english. So are you saying you are okay with people who live here legally and don’t know english, but it only bothers you when they are here illegally.

No, I meant real taxes, as in April 15th Tax Day taxes. We had this conversation a few pages back. Illegal immigrants can apply for ITIN’s to pay taxes with, without actually having to declare their legal status and get deported. A lot of them pay taxes, and it adds up to quite a lot of money. Plus the large majority get no benefits: no voting, mostly no social services (unless they have kids…okay), etc.

Aww, come on, you’re really making me go look for it. Okay, lets see. Hey, I wasn’t even a part of the convo back then!

Is this the question you are refering to? “What would you do? Would you let them stay? If so, why? If not, why?”

If so, I’ll just repeat what I just keep on saying. Illegal immigration is not a good idea, people shouldn’t do it, it’s illegal. The government should do something about it, okay? On the other hand, Me, as an individual cannot stop illegal immigration, so the question is what can I do/what can the church do. We can help people who need help, regardless of their immigration status. We can be understanding and not judge them, because I’m sure they have enough **** in their life as is. As captain jack sparrow said, there’s only one rule in life “What a man can do, and what a man can’t do”…we can’t stop the problem individually, but we can help those around us who need it, without all the judgment and criticism.

Really not lying it don’t speak it.

No they need to learn english period.

No that is not what I’m saying. Most of them do know english but refuse or don’t want to speak it. Speak english if you are here legal or not.

Oh you mean through stolden ID’s using someones elses SSN through fake ID’s
And that is what they are prosteting about in our streets.

What a cop out. Answer the question
Collectively we can.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

You are totally right on that point MelanieAnne, I wasn’t considering identity theft at the time. I was thinking more about working at places that don’t really inquire about that sort of thing (and a surprising amount of large companies look the other way).

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Really not lying it don’t speak it.

No they need to learn english period.

No that is not what I’m saying. Most of them do know english but refuse or don’t want to speak it. Speak english if you are here legal or not.

Oh you mean through stolden ID’s using someones elses SSN through fake ID’s
And that is what they are prosteting about in our streets.

What a cop out. Answer the question
Collectively we can.

See this is why I thought you had something against Hispanics, because being here illegally has no necessary logical connection to not knowing english. It might be fairly common, but there is no surefire way to connect them.

No, ITINs don’t require a social security number or stolen identity. It just requires some sort of ID, from basically any country. Trust me on this point okay, or google it, there are plenty of people complaining about how it allows illegal immigrants to thrive semi-legally.

Tell me something I can do to keep an illegal immigrant out of the country. And even if there is something I can do, I still need to help them as Christians and not to judge them or hate them. Everybody is worthy of mercy and help, regardless of their immigration status, and that is a Christian’s duty, more so than working on Border Patrol

 

[Nicea325]

Not giving my city name but its outside of Houston which is a sancturary city. Do the math.
Of course its not a legal law but it is a requirement of the job which has not been the case 20-30 years ago. Sure it don’t stop anyone from applying but it does prevent them from getting the job which is my point, not the applying part.
Thanks for the history lession, like I didn’t know that already.

Ok so lets give them back their land that we took from them, what would happen then? Lets see, they would not be a part of the U.S., they would not have the benifits of the U.S. anymore, it would be a part of Mexico which they are trying to get away from, poverty would be the same as in Mexico, and so on. They would be no better off then when they left.

Now every job you listed I have done. I have been a dish washer, a ditch digger, a janitor, a builder, worked in the fields. I have been there. As far as the others, I can’t speak for them, ask them not me.

One’s born here do not always speak fluent english. Visit a school in a border town and you will see that what you are saying is not always true.

Do you ever plan to give me your source for your supposed percentages?

Do the math? I also lived in Los Angeles a city much larger than ANY city in Texas,you do the math. What is your point? You already know the history? Could have fooled me.Where did I once mention about giving them their land back? Well good for you that you have done many of those jobs and so have I. I didn’t ask you to speak for others,I was only making a reference to those who whine about jobs being taken by illegals.

Visit a border town? What part of San Diego did you not catch? Tijuana is the largest border city next to the U.S. and been there millions of times and what I am saying is VERY TRUE!

 

[rev_kevin]

See this is why I thought you had something against Hispanics, because being here illegally has no necessary logical connection to not knowing english. It might be fairly common, but there is no surefire way to connect them.

No, ITINs don’t require a social security number or stolen identity. It just requires some sort of ID, from basically any country. Trust me on this point okay, or google it, there are plenty of people complaining about how it allows illegal immigrants to thrive semi-legally.

Tell me something I can do to keep an illegal immigrant out of the country. And even if there is something I can do, I still need to help them as Christians and not to judge them or hate them. Everybody is worthy of mercy and help, regardless of their immigration status, and that is a Christian’s duty, more so than working on Border Patrol

Bug the white house and government officials. Stand up. Put pressuer on them. Arizona stood up. Elections.

There is no semi-legally. Your legal or illegal there is no inbetween.

How much mercy and help are you willing to give. Answer my question in post 35. For some reason you won’t. Could you be afraid of your answer.

 

[Nicea325]

Bug the white house and government officials. Stand up. Put pressuer on them. Arizona stood up. Elections.

There is no semi-legally. Your legal or illegal there is no inbetween.

How much mercy and help are you willing to give. Answer my question in post 35. For some reason you won’t. Could you be afraid of your answer.

And I am curious to know why you have not answered mine? Where is the source backing up your percentages?

 

[rev_kevin]

Do you ever plan to give me your source for your supposed percentages?

Do the math? I also lived in Los Angeles a city much larger than ANY city in Texas,you do the math. What is your point? You already know the history? Could have fooled me.Where did I once mention about giving them their land back? Well good for you that you have done many of those jobs and so have I. I didn’t ask you to speak for others,I was only making a reference to those who whine about jobs being taken by illegals.

Visit a border town? What part of San Diego did you not catch? Tijuana is the largest border city next to the U.S. and been there millions of times and what I am saying is VERY TRUE!

I would be giving what city I live in and I won’t do that.

I’m glad your city is bigger then mine, who cares how big it is.

I didn’t mention history and what it was. You did. {TIME FOR A HISTORY LESSON}

You didn’t mention giving them their land back, I through that one in as a bonus.

You didn’t ask me to speak for others {IF SO MANY AMERICANS ARE USING THAT LINE OF JOBS ARE BEING TAKEN, THEN WHY IS IT REV KEV}

I said visit a SCHOOL in a border town. DID YOU NOT SEE THE WORD SCHOOL INFRONT OF BORDER TOWN?

Glad you got there so much, that don’t make you an expert. And what I say is also true.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Bug the white house and government officials. Stand up. Put pressuer on them. Arizona stood up. Elections.

There is no semi-legally. Your legal or illegal there is no inbetween.

How much mercy and help are you willing to give. Answer my question in post 35. For some reason you won’t. Could you be afraid of your answer.

I am ashamed at what Arizona did, not only because enforcement is racist, but because it cannot be enforced. Federal law requires legal immigrants to carry proof of, well, legal immigration, but if you are born here you basically have no way to prove legal status unless you carry your birth certificate around (which no one does). If they stopped me I could show a drivers license, but that in no way proves that I am here legally. Well, that was just a long-winded way of saying “Bug the white house and government officials. Stand up. Put pressuer on them. Arizona stood up. Elections” doesn’t produce results I approve of.

What I meant by semi-legally was, they wouldn’t be chased down by the IRS and it allows them to feel better about working here illegally, makes them feel normal. A lot of illegal immigrants want to give back to the country that gave them an opportunity, you make them sound so selfish.

If people camped on my property: 1) I could actually do something about it because i own that land, and i could call the police or something, whereas with illegal immigration, the individual is basically powerless
2) I technically should not kick him out because Jesus calls us to feed the hungry and shelter those in need. I’m not saying I would be kind enough to do that, but if we can’t be merciful, not even theoretically speaking, then we will never by kind in practice.

I know I would be more defensive if it were my property or my house, but that in no way shows any kind light on your argument. It only shows how selfish people (ie. me) can be and how far away we have strayed from God’s will. I don’t think “but he was here illegally” will cut it when Jesus asks why we didn’t clothe the naked or feed the hungry.

 

[rev_kevin]

I am ashamed at what Arizona did, not only because enforcement is racist, but because it cannot be enforced. Federal law requires legal immigrants to carry proof of, well, legal immigration, but if you are born here you basically have no way to prove legal status unless you carry your birth certificate around (which no one does). If they stopped me I could show a drivers license, but that in no way proves that I am here legally. Well, that was just a long-winded way of saying “Bug the white house and government officials. Stand up. Put pressuer on them. Arizona stood up. Elections” doesn’t produce results I approve of.

What I meant by semi-legally was, they wouldn’t be chased down by the IRS and it allows them to feel better about working here illegally, makes them feel normal. A lot of illegal immigrants want to give back to the country that gave them an opportunity, you make them sound so selfish.

If people camped on my property: 1) I could actually do something about it because i own that land, and i could call the police or something, whereas with illegal immigration, the individual is basically powerless
2) I technically should not kick him out because Jesus calls us to feed the hungry and shelter those in need. I’m not saying I would be kind enough to do that, but if we can’t be merciful, not even theoretically speaking, then we will never by kind in practice.

I know I would be more defensive if it were my property or my house, but that in no way shows any kind light on your argument. It only shows how selfish people (ie. me) can be and how far away we have strayed from God’s will. I don’t think “but he was here illegally” will cut it when Jesus asks why we didn’t clothe the naked or feed the hungry.

Not me I agree with what Arizona did. Its what our government should be doing and won’t do. They have the guts to say enough is enough. When they have drugs and people being smuggled in to this country. When a man was killed on his own property by a illegal because after numberous of times he went to the authorities and they turned a blind eye on it and now he’s dead. I’m sick and tired of this politicly correct stuff. The law is if you are involved in a police matter they have the right to ask you for proof of citizenship. If your a citizen you should feel good that they are doing something to stop the invation of illegal’s. Stop me all they want I have nothing to hide. Its the ones who have something to hide that don’t like it or want it. I had a boss who was from england and she carried her green card with her at all times. So what is the problem with proof. Enforcement is racist? Well the all the laws that are enforced would be considered racist. I got pulled over because I am white, black, hispanic, asian or what ever. I’m being fingered because of my race. See racism has to do with all races not just some. There are white racists, black racists, hispanic racists, asian racists.
They broke the law by coming here, by sneeking in, going against our laws of immigration. See there is a right way and a wrong way, they choose the wrong way and should not be rewarded.
We did not give them the opportunity they took it without premission. They snuck in and want everything because they broke the law. Lets not get legal immigration mixed up with illegal immigrants which seems to be happening.

If people camped on your property you could do something like call the police. but with illegals we are powerless. So it depends on the person camping on your property if illegal nothing can be done but if someone else something can be done. You are right as far as illegals go that the individual is powerless even on his own property, One knows that first hand but he can’t talk He’s dead by a illegal who was on his property.

Yes we should help the needy, but even Jesus went according to the law of the land. Didn’t he say give to Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is God’s. If its the law of the land then you go by it. There is nothing saying you can’t help them in their own country. See that covers both helping the needy and going by the laws.

Thank you for your honest answer.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Not me I agree with what Arizona did. Its what our government should be doing and won’t do. They have the guts to say enough is enough. When they have drugs and people being smuggled in to this country. When a man was killed on his own property by a illegal because after numberous of times he went to the authorities and they turned a blind eye on it and now he’s dead. I’m sick and tired of this politicly correct stuff. The law is if you are involved in a police matter they have the right to ask you for proof of citizenship. If your a citizen you should feel good that they are doing something to stop the invation of illegal’s. Stop me all they want I have nothing to hide. Its the ones who have something to hide that don’t like it or want it. I had a boss who was from england and she carried her green card with her at all times. So what is the problem with proof. Enforcement is racist? Well the all the laws that are enforced would be considered racist. I got pulled over because I am white, black, hispanic, asian or what ever. I’m being fingered because of my race. See racism has to do with all races not just some. There are white racists, black racists, hispanic racists, asian racists.
They broke the law by coming here, by sneeking in, going against our laws of immigration. See there is a right way and a wrong way, they choose the wrong way and should not be rewarded.
We did not give them the opportunity they took it without premission. They snuck in and want everything because they broke the law. Lets not get legal immigration mixed up with illegal immigrants which seems to be happening.

If people camped on your property you could do something like call the police. but with illegals we are powerless. So it depends on the person camping on your property if illegal nothing can be done but if someone else something can be done. You are right as far as illegals go that the individual is powerless even on his own property, One knows that first hand but he can’t talk He’s dead by a illegal who was on his property.

Yes we should help the needy, but even Jesus went according to the law of the land. Didn’t he say give to Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is God’s. If its the law of the land then you go by it. There is nothing saying you can’t help them in their own country. See that covers both helping the needy and going by the laws.

Thank you for your honest answer.

I immigrated here (legally ) from Romania when I was quite young so even though I am American, and speak English without the hint of an accent, I don’t look “American” exactly. If I were to go to Arizona, and get pulled over and a be asked for proof of citizenship, what am I going to show? I’m not going to carry my passport with me to Arizona! My license only shows I was here legally for a time (when I got it), but not necessarily that I am now. State records will not help me because I am not from Arizona, you see? The law doesn’t make sense, in very many cases. Citizens are not legally obliged to carry ID at all times, especially not your passport. And what if you don’t have a passport, your birth certificate will be in the bank, not in your pocket.

Well, it’s out of discussion that this law isn’t racist because a blonde barbie-looking girl won’t be stopped (even though she could have illegally immigrated from Norway). And I know racism will always be present, but it just makes it harder when the government is pushing it. It’s hard enough when the people are racist but institutional racism is even harder to fight. I can’t imagine how painful it must be for Arabs who always get pulled over in the airport line. I’ve spoken to some of my friends about this and it’s hard because they want to do what they can to keep America safe, but it hurts that they are always suspected as a risk.

There’s an interesting quote I found from St Basil the Great, which is very distressing to me personally because I have a lot of shoes

“The bread in your cupboard belongs to the hungry man; the coat hanging in your closet belongs to the man who needs it; the shoes rotting in your closet belong to the man who has no shoes; the money which you put into the bank belongs to the poor. You do wrong to everyone you could help but fail to help.” - Basil of Caesarea, 330-370 A.D.

The land, even if it’s our property, that we are not using to its fullest extent, belongs to someone who needs it more than we do. We need to give without judging people for what use they make of the things we give, which is very hard because it is the opposite of what we were raised to believe. The thing is, until the problem visits us, we do little about it. Maybe illegal immigration is God’s wake up call for us to help Mexico, because what we’re doing is minimal. There is so much the US can freely give, but doesn’t.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I immigrated here (legally ) from Romania when I was quite young so even though I am American, and speak English without the hint of an accent, I don’t look “American” exactly. If I were to go to Arizona, and get pulled over and a be asked for proof of citizenship, what am I going to show? I’m not going to carry my passport with me to Arizona! My license only shows I was here legally for a time (when I got it), but not necessarily that I am now. State records will not help me because I am not from Arizona, you see? The law doesn’t make sense, in very many cases. Citizens are not legally obliged to carry ID at all times, especially not your passport. And what if you don’t have a passport, your birth certificate will be in the bank, not in your pocket.

Well, it’s out of discussion that this law isn’t racist because a blonde barbie-looking girl won’t be stopped (even though she could have illegally immigrated from Norway). And I know racism will always be present, but it just makes it harder when the government is pushing it. It’s hard enough when the people are racist but institutional racism is even harder to fight. I can’t imagine how painful it must be for Arabs who always get pulled over in the airport line. I’ve spoken to some of my friends about this and it’s hard because they want to do what they can to keep America safe, but it hurts that they are always suspected as a risk.

There’s an interesting quote I found from St Basil the Great, which is very distressing to me personally because I have a lot of shoes

“The bread in your cupboard belongs to the hungry man; the coat hanging in your closet belongs to the man who needs it; the shoes rotting in your closet belong to the man who has no shoes; the money which you put into the bank belongs to the poor. You do wrong to everyone you could help but fail to help.” - Basil of Caesarea, 330-370 A.D.

The land, even if it’s our property, that we are not using to its fullest extent, belongs to someone who needs it more than we do. We need to give without judging people for what use they make of the things we give, which is very hard because it is the opposite of what we were raised to believe. The thing is, until the problem visits us, we do little about it. Maybe illegal immigration is God’s wake up call for us to help Mexico, because what we’re doing is minimal. There is so much the US can freely give, but doesn’t.

Here’s the thing. We all have “papers”. We just use different words to describe them. The very word “papers” is being deliberately used as a scare tactic. Your driver’s license = your “papers” for purposes of meeting the law in Arizona. All the scare tactics used by those who oppose the Arizona law are simply incorrect. The Arizona law mirrors US law, which requires, for example, that someone who is visiting our country carry their passport. Citizens have other forms of ID, such as a driver’s license or comparable State ID.

The hysteria over the Arizona law is based on ignorance of what the law actually does and does not do. Other states, including California, already have similar laws. If these states also violate US law, why aren’t they also being sued? Many cities violate US Immigration Laws in an opposite way, as “sanctuary” cities, where they REFUSE to cooperate with US Immigration law. If the Department of Justice is so concerned about violation of US Immigration Laws, why aren’t they also being sued? It’s clear that the hysteria is being stirred up for political reasons. The facts do not support the hysteria, which is all the proof you need to realize that.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Here’s the thing. We all have “papers”. We just use different words to describe them. The very word “papers” is being deliberately used as a scare tactic. Your driver’s license = your “papers” for purposes of meeting the law in Arizona. All the scare tactics used by those who oppose the Arizona law are simply incorrect. The Arizona law mirrors US law, which requires, for example, that someone who is visiting our country carry their passport. Citizens have other forms of ID, such as a driver’s license or comparable State ID.

Well, actually, a drivers license cannot prove legal status. Many illegal immigrants came to the US legally at one time so they were able to get a drivers license, and if they stayed past their visa, they still have a valid license. Either the law is ineffective because illegal immigrants can get past a check with a license, or it is impossible to be enforced, because few people carry a passport or a birth certificate around.