Catholic Church Position on Immigration

[kimmielittle]

this isn’t about religion. If I were to immigrate to Mexico, believe me…I’d have to learn Spanish…and since when did God reveal to anybody that Spanish is His Sacred Language? Catholics speak almost every language…and historically, there is this feeling that God’s language was Latin. …and nobody speaks THAT anymore, except liturgically.

Get over yourself. Whether you LIKE it that we won the Mexican American War or not, we did. Just as the Spanish conquered most of South and Central America. The US national boundaries are what they are, and Hispanics from the south of us do. not. have. the. right. to. invade. our. nation. and. break. our. laws. just because they want to.

Funny…I haven’t seen ANY of you object to the Mexican immigration laws.

Of course. I actually did take Spanish. Of course, I speak Old and Middle English better, but…if I ever decide to immigrate to Mexico, Spain or any other nation in which Spanish is the ‘official’ (or ‘semi-official’) language, be certain that I will learn to speak it.

You DO realize that you are actually telling us that since Hispanics are invading (that IS what you call it when a group of people crosses national borders against the will of the target nation for the purpose of living there…even when, or especially when, they break the laws of that new nation by doing so) us, and you have the incredible chutspah to tell us that WE have to learn YOUR language, accede to YOUR customs, and hand over all the entitlements that WE count on…and that this little matter of y’all BREAKING OUR LAWS shouldn’t be a problem?

EXCUSE ME???

(disclaimer…the ‘y’all’ is general. I have no idea whether you are an illegal alien or not, but it is to them I address my points.)

To bring it back, sorta, to the topic of the forum and the thread, don’t you think it’s a little presumptuous for the Catholics to make a nation…which has more non-Catholics than Catholics in it, solve the problems that the church should be solving in the areas where the suffering people actually live?

It would be better if the Catholics here who scream ‘social justice’ in terms of illegal aliens, and and read it’s own catechism regarding it…there is NOTHING in there about it being ok to invade a neighboring nation in order to steal their jobs, homes and culture.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[kimmielittle]

But does the Catholic Church really support and respect sovereignty of nations? Look at the free-flowing sanctuary city mentality the Church has and the way so many bishops have advocated harboring illegals or aiding them. Our bishop here harps on a monthly basis about how we should support illegals and support amnesty and respect and dignity for people breaking our laws. The Church has a pretty liberal, sympathetic view of illegal immigrants and I don’t think they respect our sovereignty at all.

When Bishops do this IMHO… They forget"Social Justice" DEMANDS equal scales. Bishop Sheen did a talk on the dangers on False Compassion mikeadkins.com/article/bishop-fulton-sheen-on-false-compassionpart-i/ And
mikeadkins.com/article/bishop-fulton-sheen-on-false-compassionpart-ii/

 

[tomarin]

When Bishops do this IMHO… They forget"Social Justice" DEMANDS equal scales. Bishop Sheen did a talk on the dangers on False Compassion mikeadkins.com/article/bishop-fulton-sheen-on-false-compassionpart-i/ And
mikeadkins.com/article/bishop-fulton-sheen-on-false-compassionpart-ii/

I think the fact that the Church’s position on illegal immigration bothers so many of the conservative Catholics/Christians here is probably a sign that they’re teaching correct and orthodox Christianity. We are supposed to care about our fellow man, even if they’re Mexican.

“False compassion”? Where do people come up with these things?

 

[kimmielittle]

I think the fact that the Church’s position on illegal immigration bothers so many of the conservative Catholics/Christians here is probably a sign that they’re teaching correct and orthodox Christianity.

Soooo…you think its right for me to confess say a sin of stealing…lying…trespassing…coveting my neighbors goods?

BUT teach me that its O’kay to harbor and aid criminals?
BECAUSE that is EXACTLY what is being told to kids.

Prove to me that I am Amoral OR unjust to expect immigrants to be Legal.
Now let’s ask if stealing…lying…trespassing…coveting are sins covered in the Bible. If they are…those would be amoral and unjust sins…Which are purposely…repeatedly committed EVERYDAY, by ILLEGALS.

Can you tell me if that is a venal sin or a Mortal one - I’m under the impression that a purposly repeated sin is a Mortal Sin.

We are supposed to care about our fellow man, even if they’re Mexican.

That is really charitable IMHO…ILLEGAL is not about race.

“False compassion”? Where do people come up with these things?

I can see you are unfimilair with Arch-Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. He taught “False Compassion” many years before I was born. You might listen to it. I think Jesus was the first to address compassion of truth and false compassion ’ Go and sin no more".

 

[tomarin]

Soooo…you think its right for me to confess say a sin of stealing…lying…trespassing…coveting my neighbors goods?

BUT teach me that its O’kay to harbor and aid criminals?
BECAUSE that is EXACTLY what is being told to kids.

Not all laws are to be followed just because they’re laws. Some laws are unjust. The laws that upheld slavery as legal for example were not just, and therefore the people who had the courage to flaunt them were criminals at that time in the eyes of the law. Nevetheless they were doing the right thing.

Prove to me that I am Amoral OR unjust to expect immigrants to be Legal.
Now let’s ask if stealing…lying…trespassing…coveting are sins covered in the Bible. If they are…those would be amoral and unjust sins…Which are purposely…repeatedly committed EVERYDAY by ILLEGALS.

All they’re doing is coming to work here. If there’s work to be found here and none where they live I don’t really blame them. I would do the same if the alternative was watching my children starve.

Can you tell me if that is a venal sin or a Mortal one - I’m under the impression that a purposly repeated sin is a Mortal Sin.

I don’t think illegals are guilty of any sin.

That is really charitable IMHO…ILLEGAL is not about race.

I wasn’t trying to bring up race, just nationality.

I can see you are unfimilair with Arch-Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. He taught “False Compassion” many years before I was born. You might listen to it.

I’m familiar with him. I don’t know what he was referring to when he talked about false compassion, but I do think it’s presumptuous of you to accuse people who question the morality of our immigration laws with having “false” compassion (whatever that is). How do you know it’s not real compassion that moves them – can you read their hearts?

 

[dianaiad]

I think the fact that the Church’s position on illegal immigration bothers so many of the conservative Catholics/Christians here is probably a sign that they’re teaching correct and orthodox Christianity. We are supposed to care about our fellow man, even if they’re Mexican.

“False compassion”? Where do people come up with these things?

Yes. WE are. Catholics are supposed to care for our fellow man. Mormons are. Christians of all flavors are.

We are NOT supposed to shuffle that care off onto some other person and government to do it for us.

As to ‘false compassion…’ well, what would YOU call it when what you do enables someone to break the laws, ensuring that no matter what happens, that person can never, EVER, have the full 'American Dream?" Illegal aliens can’t ever be doctors, lawyers, cops, teachers…or indeed have any job that requires the least amount of background checking. They can’t vote, so they can’t participate in the government in any manner but vocally. How is that “compassion?”

What it is, is ensuring a permanent underclass; a servant and a slave class that can’t ever get fixed. Sure, their KIDS are citizens and can have all of that, but who RAISED those kids? Always afraid of the INS, always looking over their shoulders, like thieves afraid to be caught…because the ARE thieves.

True compassion would be exhibited in one of two ways:

Take care of their needs in their own nations. If they are fleeing out of desperation and economical hardship, then what is the church doing for them THERE? THAT’S where they should be. That’s compassion. Enable them to find their dreams in the homes where they were born. Don’t send them elsewhere and expect someone else to show compassion if you won’t do it where they actually need it, and don’t you DARE criticise those upon whom they batten for being mean and selfish, when it is the meanness and selfishness of those left behind who caused the problem.

The other thing that the church could do…and frankly, since it IS a world wide and extremely wealthy organization, is to compassionately tell these illegal aliens to go home and come back the right way. You want to exhibit compassion? Pay their way home. Support them there for the weeks or months it takes to find a sponsor for them to come here LEGALLY, at which point they can have that American Dream in all it’s glory, and be extremely welcome to join us in it.

“Sanctuary Cities” and other measures of “social justice” are not justice. You are not doing them any favors…in fact, this is forming a class of people that hasn’t been around for centuries; serfs.

 

[kimmielittle]

Not all laws are to be followed just because they’re laws. Some laws are unjust. The laws that upheld slavery as legal for example were not just, and therefore the people who had the courage to flaunt them were criminals at that time in the eyes of the law. Nevetheless they were doing the right thing.

Actually, that is a poor analogy IMHO. Slavery oppressed innocent people. People that did not ask or seek to come here.Our immigration laws have been in effect since 1940. If it Immigration laws ] has oppressed anyone…People knew what they were and still sought out this country as a host.

Personally, I think people who try this in debate do a disservice to their cause.

All they’re doing is coming to work here. If there’s work to be found here and none where they live I don’t really blame them. I would do the same if the alternative was watching my children starve.

If you are talking about Mexico…The unemployment rate in Mexico is:

Inflation (CPI) 3% (2007)
Gini index 44.5
Unemployment 3.7% (2007)
HDI ▲ 0.829
Labor force 45.38 million (2007)

Do you know when we had an unemployment rate of 3.5%? 1969-11 3.50 http://www.miseryindex.us/images/bluefill.gif

miseryindex.us/urbymonth.asp HERE

These people have better opportunity for getting and maintaining a job in Mexico…Then in the U.S. A.

If they were starving…Why don’t we see it / and see sponsorship from… the local Mexican Catholic Churches…It is their responsibility To Steward Their Flocks - not to ship their problems out to another country…is it not?

I don’t think illegals are guilty of any sin.

Then you see no sin within yourself? Because if you justify their sins…You can surely justify ANY sin…“Thou sault not steal…except for”

I’m familiar with him. I don’t know what he was referring to when he talked about false compassion, but I do think it’s presumptuous of you to accuse people who question the morality of our immigration laws with having “false” compassion (whatever that is). How do you know it’s not real compassion that moves them – can you read their hearts?

Maybe you should view the two UTUBES?

Truth never is equal to compassion. Truth is tempered with compassion throughout the Bible BUT never equal OR above…i.e., “Go and sin no more”.
As a fact: “Compassion” is not above or equal to an individuals responsibility…i.e. again ] “Go and sin no more”.

 

[dianaiad]

Not all laws are to be followed just because they’re laws. Some laws are unjust. The laws that upheld slavery as legal for example were not just, and therefore the people who had the courage to flaunt them were criminals at that time in the eyes of the law. Nevetheless they were doing the right thing.

All they’re doing is coming to work here. If there’s work to be found here and none where they live I don’t really blame them. I would do the same if the alternative was watching my children starve.

So true compassion would be to help them where they are, not enable them to break the laws of another sovereign nation. By the way, have you ever seen the immigration laws of Italy? Trust me, you don’t want to be THERE illegally. Illegal immigrants there, when caught, have to pay almost $15,000 in fines OR go to jail for six months, after which they are deported. People who knowingly hire, or harbor, illegal aliens are liable for a three YEAR jail sentence.

So much for compassion. True, the Vatican is ‘critical,’ but then the Vatican doesn’t have to deal with illegal immigration.

The CoJCoLDS is extremely 'neutral" on this subject, with a 'hands off the whole thing" policy. There are Mormons on both sides of this; on one hand, we have Russel Pearce, the main backer of Arizona’s SB 1070 law, and on the other hand we have Harry Ried. On the one hand we have a group of vigilantes who put together that ‘black list’ of supposed illegal aliens, complete with SS numbers and personal information and handed the list to authorities in Utah…and on the other, we very carefully do not ask about immigration status during Temple Recomend and baptism interviews. In fact, politically the church itself has a far more 'hands off the whole thing" policy than the Catholics do, by far.

On the other hand, if someone is in such desperate need that they are thinking about coming here illegally, we have the processes and help in place in the home countries to help them THERE–so that they can stay, or if they must leave, to help them do things legally if possible.

And that, my friend, is where the Catholic church could best show compassion. Intervene with these people’s lives and give them aid BEFORE they take this step. How about that?

 

[tomarin]

Actually, that is a poor analogy IMHO. Slavery oppressed innocent people. People that did not ask or seek to come here.Our immigration laws have been in effect since 1940. If it Immigration laws ] has oppressed anyone…People knew what they were and still sought out this country as a host.

I agree that slavery is a much, much greater evil than any unjust immigration law, but I wanted to make a point about not all laws being worthy of following if they are immoral or unjust. Slavery is a vivid example of that.

Personally, I think people who try this in debate do a disservice to their cause.

If it gets you to acknowledge that not all laws are worthy of following just because they are laws, then it accomplished its purpose.

If you are talking about Mexico…The unemployment rate in Mexico is:

Inflation (CPI) 3% (2007) …

These people have better opportunity for getting and maintaining a job in Mexico…Then in the U.S. A.

Frankly I don’t think any of that is true. I think that like most economic refugees most Mexicans who come here illegally would prefer to stay in their country but can’t because of lack of opportunities. You have to be pretty desperate to cross the border on foot. It’s dangerous.

Then you see no sin within yourself? Because if you justify their sins…You can surely justify ANY sin…“Thou sault not steal…except for”

I think you need to re-read my posts so far. You don’t have to share my point of view, but you can at least try to understand it.

Maybe you should view the two UTUBES?

There’s no speaker on the computer I’m currently using.

Truth never is equal to compassion. Truth is tempered with compassion throughout the Bible BUT never equal OR above…i.e., “Go and sin no more”.
As a fact: “Compassion” is not above or equal to an individuals responsibility…i.e. again ] “Go and sin no more”.

I’m concerned that “false compassion” can be used to dismiss any genuine concern for other human beings borne out of Christ’s teachings (shelter the homeless, clothe the naked, etc.) that happens to conflict with an extreme conservative political ideology.

 

[tomarin]

So true compassion would be to help them where they are, not enable them to break the laws of another sovereign nation.

You’re completely side-stepping the issue of whether the current laws are just or not. If they’re not, then the Church has an obligation to speak out against them, just like the Church speaks out against legalized abortion (and I acknowledge in advance that abortion is a far greater evil than whatever flaws our immigration system has). If the Church remains silent on these things, it’s not doing its job. Saying it should pay the illegal immigrants’ bus ride home or find them jobs in Mexico misses the point entirely.

 

[dianaiad]

I'm concerned that "false compassion" can be used to dismiss any genuine concern for other human beings borne out of Christ's teachings (shelter the homeless, clothe the naked, etc.) that happens to conflict with an extreme conservative political ideology.

I’ll tell you what false compassion is…to enable this behavior that ensures their position as an underclass that can go nowhere. True compassion is…fund their journey home. Find them sponsers. Get them legal…or better still, fix the problems from their own places so that they don’t GET that desperate.

Compassion is never truely exhibited by keeping them down. Compassion is best served by FIXING THE PROBLEM.

Preferably in a way that helps them obey the laws of the nation they want to make their home, and…by the way…there is nothing wrong with our immigration laws that simply OBEYING Them wouldn’t instantly fix. They are, in fact, some of the most lenient and welcoming laws of any nation, and it is utterly unreasonable of ANY nation, especially nations that treat their own illegal immigration as harshly as most do, to criticise us for ours.

Do you even know what our immigration laws and policies are? As it happens, the USA accepts more LEGAL immigrants as permanent residents here than every other nation in the world, combined. We WANT immigrants. We are, indeed, a ‘nation of immigrants.’ The problem is, more people want to come here than even we have the ability to process and absorb (you DID note that we accept more legal permanent residents every year than all other nations combined, right?). So there is a queue. People who want to obey the laws and come here legally (and frankly, it’s just not that hard; our immigration requirements are considerably easier to satisfy than, say, Mexico’s) are willing to wait their turns…but illegal immigrants jump the queue, clog the system and ruin the process.

They are, at the very least, rude.

Now you can say 'but who can blame them…I would do everything I could to support my family…" except that ‘doing everything you can…’ has to have limits. Your right to a Happy Meal does NOT mean you have the right to steal mine, in other words.

Or to ensure that my child’s ability to get a job at McDonalds is completely gone because someone who is breaking the laws simply by being here is working there instead.

…or, by being willing to work for serf wages under the table, ensured that my brother, who worked in construction for a good part of his life, simply cannot find a job. HE, you see, is a citizen and wants a decent wage. He is not willing to work for five bucks an hour under the table.

See, that’s the problem with having a serf class; employers love it, because they can cheat their workers, deny them benefits, defraud them and toss them away. What recourse do they have, if they have to worry about ICE? If enabling this is your idea of ‘compassion,’ I want none of it.

You want to be compassionate? OK. find an illegal alien who really wants to stay here. Take out your checkbook and buy him a bus ticket to his home nation (or a plane ticket, whatever.) On his way to the bus, hand him the paper work that says you will stand sponsor to him when he applies for legal immigration status, and then…stand sponser to him. If he has children born here, then you take care of them until he has his status straightened out (and since he does AND he will have a sponsor, that won’t take very long.)

That, my friend, is true compassion.
The church is a huge organization, It could come up with a means to do this. You can’t tell me that there aren’t enough Catholics in the USA to stand sponsor for these desperate people who want to be here. So…do that.

Then those men can also demand decent wages and treatment at the hands of their employers.

 

[dianaiad]

You’re completely side-stepping the issue of whether the current laws are just or not. If they’re not, then the Church has an obligation to speak out against them, just like the Church speaks out against legalized abortion (and I acknowledge in advance that abortion is a far greater evil than whatever flaws our immigration system has). If the Church remains silent on these things, it’s not doing its job. Saying it should pay the illegal immigrants’ bus ride home or find them jobs in Mexico misses the point entirely.

There is absolutely nothing unjust about American immigration policies. As noted in another post, the USA admits more legal immigrants every year than all other nations in the world, combined. The requirements for getting a green card here are among the most lenient in the world…in fact, I believe that they are THE most lenient. The injustice lies, not in our laws, but in this idea the world seems to have that we owe them more than they are willing to give in return. Like equality in immigration laws.

But you go ahead; do come comparing. Our immigration laws to anybody else’s. Our rate of immigration acceptance to anybody else’s. Then come to me and talk about justice.

 

[kimmielittle]

Catholic Teaching

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

 

[eddy714]

There is absolutely nothing unjust about American immigration policies. As noted in another post, the USA admits more legal immigrants every year than all other nations in the world, combined. The requirements for getting a green card here are among the most lenient in the world…in fact, I believe that they are THE most lenient. The injustice lies, not in our laws, but in this idea the world seems to have that we owe them more than they are willing to give in return. Like equality in immigration laws.

But you go ahead; do come comparing. Our immigration laws to anybody else’s. Our rate of immigration acceptance to anybody else’s. Then come to me and talk about justice.

Well thats good and I thank the U.S for helping my family and I out, but I also thank God everyday for keeping my family and I heathy and with a job that we work so hard for.

 

[kimmielittle]

You’re completely side-stepping the issue of whether the current laws are just or not.

No one is side-stepping.

People come here to improve their life.
They take an individual responsibility to either come here legally or Illegally.

Who’s responsibility is it to improve your job skills to better your life?

Since the Immigration Act of 1940 Hundreds of thousands of Legal immigrants have taken on their individual responsibilities.

It is their individual responsibility , in order to better their lives, to be responsible citizens, to the host country, that is helping / offering opportunities for them to better their lives.

 

[tomarin]

Catholic Teaching

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

Yes, but I’ve already shown that breaking a law is not intrinsically sinful; if the law is unjust then breaking it could be a good or obligatory thing. Hiding Anne Frank from the German police was a good thing, but it broke the law.

I think the real disagreement between you and I is whether the immigration policy we have now is just or not. But you haven’t shown that it’s just, you just keep repeating it’s wrong to break the law, illegals are criminals, etc. There’s no consideration on your part that economic hardship may drive them to break our laws in order to survive. That’s impossible for you to imagine for some reason.

Also, keep in mind that I’m the one who is seriously considering what the Catholic bishops have said on this matter and you’re the one who summarily rejects their advice on the Christian thing to do, on spurious grounds in my opinion. So I don’t know why you would feel the need to instruct me on the catechism’s definition of sin. Do you think the Catholic bishops also don’t know their catechism?

 

[kimmielittle]

Frankly I don’t think any of that is true. I think that like most economic refugees most Mexicans who come here illegally would prefer to stay in their country but can’t because of lack of opportunities.

Then they would not be living the USA recently, to go back home. They are.

Here are ALL the Countries compared to Mexico

Country NameValue Nauru90 Liberia85 Zimbabwe80 Burkina Faso77 Turkmenistan60 Djibouti59 Zambia50 Senegal48 Nepal46 Lesotho45 Kenya40 Afghanistan40 Swaziland40 Yemen35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of34 Mali30 Libya30 Mauritania30 Equatorial Guinea30 Cameroon30 Bosnia and Herzegovina29 Dominica23 South Africa23 Cape Verde21 Mozambique21 Gabon21 Saint Lucia20 East Timor20 Comoros20 Sudan19 Iraq18 Kyrgyzstan18 New Caledonia17 Dominican Republic16 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines15 Oman15 Bahrain15 Montenegro15 Tunisia14 Spain14 Croatia14 Georgia14 Tonga13 Jordan13 Iran13 Algeria13 Albania13 Grenada13 Puerto Rico12 Saudi Arabia12 Colombia11 Guyana11 Antigua and Barbuda11 Jamaica11 Ghana11 Barbados11 Turkey11 Morocco10 Poland10 Suriname10 Burma10 Greenland9 Lebanon9 Ecuador9 Syria9 Egypt8 Indonesia8 Belize8 Peru8 Central African Republic8 Brazil8 Argentina8 Chile8 Hungary8 Germany8 Greece8 Slovakia8 Bahamas, The8 Portugal8 Uruguay8 Fiji8 Bolivia8 Botswana8 Venezuela7 Philippines7 Pakistan7 France7 United States7 Mauritius7 Armenia7 Belgium7 India7 Italy7 Slovenia7 Kazakhstan7 Russia6 Russia6 Finland6 El Salvador6 Bulgaria6 Canada6 Sweden6 Ireland6 Israel6 Malta6 Lithuania6 Estonia6 Nicaragua6 Panama6 United Kingdom6 Trinidad and Tobago6 Paraguay5 Czech Republic5 Latvia5 Sri Lanka5 Namibia5 Nigeria5 Costa Rica5 Vietnam5 Saint Kitts and Nevis5 Luxembourg5 Cayman Islands4 Romania4 Palau4 New Zealand4 Australia4 Hong Kong4 Taiwan4 Netherlands4 Mexico4 China

indexmundi.com/map/?v=74

You have to be pretty desperate to cross the border on foot. It’s dangerous.

That’s why they pay Coyotes “Human Traffikers” $3,000 - $5,000 to get them in USA ILLEGALLY

 

[tomarin]

That’s why they pay Coyotes “Human Traffikers” $3,000 - $5,000 to get them in USA ILLEGALLY

That in itself (dealing with the coyotes) is very dangerous, especially for women, thus proving my point. It’s not something to be done for a lark.

 

[kimmielittle]

Yes, but I’ve already shown that breaking a law is not intrinsically sinful; if the law is unjust then breaking it could be a good or obligatory thing. Hiding Anne Frank from the German police was a good thing, but it broke the law.

TRUE…but Mexicans coming here Illegally, aren’t being persecuted by Mexico, for the most part. Not 11 -20 million people worth…AND if they were being persecuted…they get asylum protection…EVEN easier to get.

I think the real disagreement between you and I is whether the immigration policy we have now is just or not. But you haven’t shown that it’s just, you just keep repeating it’s wrong to break the law, illegals are criminals, etc.

Can you prove that it’s unjust or amoral? You stated it was but failed to give evidence.

There’s no consideration on your part that economic hardship may drive them to break our laws in order to survive. That’s impossible for you to imagine for some reason.

Then it should be O’kay that Citizens who are poor in this country …Have these same rights?

Also, keep in mind that I’m the one who is seriously considering what the Catholic bishops have said on this matter and you’re the one who summarily rejects their advice on the Christian thing to do, on spurious grounds in my opinion. So I don’t know why you would feel the need to instruct me on the catechism’s definition of sin. Do you think the Catholic bishops also don’t know their catechism?

You are the one who answered my post …in response to this

  			Originally Posted by **gurneyhalleck1** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6886435#post6886435) 				
  		*But does the Catholic Church really support and respect sovereignty of nations? Look at the free-flowing sanctuary city mentality the Church has and the way so many bishops have advocated harboring illegals or aiding them. Our bishop here harps on a monthly basis about how we should support illegals and support amnesty and respect and dignity for people breaking our laws. The Church has a pretty liberal, sympathetic view of illegal immigrants and I don't think they respect our sovereignty at all.*

 

[kimmielittle]

That in itself (dealing with the coyotes) is very dangerous, especially for women,

ABSOLUTELY on being dangerous

My question is: How far can that money go in Mexico. With the rate of inflation / cost of living index in Mexico could not that amount of money go a year or more in their country? How poor are they really?

They have the money to come here Illegally…But not Legally?

I know some citizens in this Country who would feel relieved to have the extra $3,000 - $5,000 to supplement them for a year.