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saylo
Guest
See:
www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/533145.html
Looks like Catholic colleges are going to defined. This was long overdue.
- Status
www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/533145.html
Looks like Catholic colleges are going to defined. This was long overdue.
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rien
Guest
IMO this is a charade as was the previous Pope’s support of “orthodox” catholic colleges.
The Pope can admonish all he want - JP@ did for years - and it made no difference.
If this Pope is serious about this simply establish a vatican “accreditation” attesting to a supposed catholic college’s orthodoxy.
But you wait. They won’t do the obvious.
IMO the Pope is going to use this as a way to keep donations coming in from generally believing Catholics.
IMO it is a sham. But I am looking in from the outside.
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roanoker
Guest
I’m looking at it from the outside, too, but I hope maybe this pope will have some backbone and do something serious about the situation. He’s demonstrated some courage up til now, let’s just see. Maybe we’ll be surprised… Roanoker
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
It is not the obvious. Academic college life is supposed to be full of diverse, life changing learning experiences. To restrict what goes on is restricting the range of life changing experiences available to the students.
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gmarie21
Guest
That’s a bunch of hogwash. Children and adults alike need less “choices” because our minds do become overwhelmed and over stimulated with too many “choices” in activities and we end up bascially not advancing emotionally nor intelligently. Why do many private and homeschool students do so well, it’s because they don’t have as many “choices” in their academic studies. There have been numerous studies that have proven that a person is inefficient when performing more than one task at a time. Not limiting the “life changing experiences available” as you put it, within a Catholic institution inorder to make sure that the institution remains Catholic is plain, old silly.
I attended SMU by you and the academics were limited (even though they managed to get some over-the-top liberal professors there), and the atmosphere was more party than study, and it is in the middle of nowhere, and it is small, hence it doesn’t attract big names, however, I, as well as many of my friends, managed to find ourselves with a whole slew of “life changing experiences”, heck mine left me with a serious case of depression and self-hatred. If the Church challenges and forces institutions that carry it’s name to hold themselves and their students to higher standards maybe our Church and country wouldn’t be filled with so many apathetic individuals.
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VociMike
Guest
Good morning starshine!..
You speak as if it’s still 1968. Oh, wait. What I meant to say is, you speak as if you don’t realize that every college “restricts what goes on”. It’s only the nature of the restrictions that is at issue, not their inevitable existence.
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anamchara
Guest
I hope you are joking because this was seriously funny!
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gmarie21
Guest
Maybe I phrased my point wrong (wouldn’t be the first time). I was thinking more along the lines of being over involved in too many activities. For example, it’s better to be a leader in one thing than to be mildly involved in numerous things. It’s better to focus on a few than to have little knowledge about a lot. If you still think my explaination is still “seriously funny” then just consider it a difference of opinions.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Party and drinking is a common thing at any college, Catholic or not. Some choose to do it, some choose not to do it. Yet college is a time for exploration, some approach it in different ways. All schools try hard to keep the drinking and partying down, but those approaches can only do so much. BXVI anticipated words from what I expect will not even touch on these issues as every school tries hard to minimize it.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
There are some restrictions and not total anarchy.Good morning starshine!..
You speak as if it’s still 1968. Oh, wait. What I meant to say is, you speak as if you don’t realize that every college “restricts what goes on”. It’s only the nature of the restrictions that is at issue, not their inevitable existence.
The restrictions are towards academic freedom and what can even be talked about. Remember that all Universities and Colleges missions are to open students’ minds and allow them to grow. No idea should be rejected at face value without some further discussion as to what it is all about and how it relates to life.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I think it would be extremely difficult for a Catholic college to really reform nowadays. They have nearly all adopted secular governance, hired professors who are indifferent or hostile to orthodox Catholicism, and, in my opinion at least, have overemphasized “diversity” and “openness to ideas”.
But on the other hand, (and I realize this is anecdotal) some extremely “orthodox” Catholic colleges seem to be missing something. Rather than seeking to be “in the world but not of it” they seem to expect to be “in the world AND of it” but expect the world to somehow meet their expectations. There is a certain over-insularity.
I went to a Catholic college years and years ago. I doubt many new sins have been discovered by undergraduates since then. But there was a difference, I think. First of all, the school itself maintained a highly moral tone, but not a namby-pamby “hold hands and sing ‘kumbaya’” sort of religiosity. It had expectations, and never, ever contradicted those or the Magisterium. But it had no illusions about what we did on our own time. But if we wanted to canoodle with evil, we did have to do it on our own time. The school was not ever the place for it.
My school certainly did examine the mores and philosophies of the time, but always critically, from a Catholic perspective. We studied ideal social arrangements, but always recognizing that we would have to make our way through a tough world that did not share those ideals. We knew what was what out there in the “real world”.
I don’t know how that can be recaptured, because I think so much has changed. Not the least has been the change in the students. Some of my fellow students were the next thing to gangsters and, but for the grace of God, would have been. I, myself, was a dyed-in-the-wool (self-imagined) Southern Cavalier in a sea of Yankees. Quick to fight for pride and totally comfortable, as a practical matter, with the ideas of segregation, genteel seduction, male drunkenness and violence. But none of us had any expectations of official tolerance, let alone sanction, of our worst instincts. We had no such expectations because we were raised to respect the authority of the Church and to expect its representatives to present morality, not compromise. I genuinely believe the school’s insistence that it, itself, would not be tainted with moral compromise as it taught us better things and ways, did slowly change those things that were the worst in us.
When a Catholic college finds itself trying to change after years of compromise on its own part, and trying to present itself anew to young people who were not raised to particularly respect the authority of the Church, I think it has a monumental task ahead of it.
But that does not mean the Pope ought not to express himself on the subject. After all, just as it was with my college, refusal to compromise is, itself, instructive, even if the recipient of the instruction is not particularly disposed to be accepting of it.
But on the other hand, (and I realize this is anecdotal) some extremely “orthodox” Catholic colleges seem to be missing something. Rather than seeking to be “in the world but not of it” they seem to expect to be “in the world AND of it” but expect the world to somehow meet their expectations. There is a certain over-insularity.
I went to a Catholic college years and years ago. I doubt many new sins have been discovered by undergraduates since then. But there was a difference, I think. First of all, the school itself maintained a highly moral tone, but not a namby-pamby “hold hands and sing ‘kumbaya’” sort of religiosity. It had expectations, and never, ever contradicted those or the Magisterium. But it had no illusions about what we did on our own time. But if we wanted to canoodle with evil, we did have to do it on our own time. The school was not ever the place for it.
My school certainly did examine the mores and philosophies of the time, but always critically, from a Catholic perspective. We studied ideal social arrangements, but always recognizing that we would have to make our way through a tough world that did not share those ideals. We knew what was what out there in the “real world”.
I don’t know how that can be recaptured, because I think so much has changed. Not the least has been the change in the students. Some of my fellow students were the next thing to gangsters and, but for the grace of God, would have been. I, myself, was a dyed-in-the-wool (self-imagined) Southern Cavalier in a sea of Yankees. Quick to fight for pride and totally comfortable, as a practical matter, with the ideas of segregation, genteel seduction, male drunkenness and violence. But none of us had any expectations of official tolerance, let alone sanction, of our worst instincts. We had no such expectations because we were raised to respect the authority of the Church and to expect its representatives to present morality, not compromise. I genuinely believe the school’s insistence that it, itself, would not be tainted with moral compromise as it taught us better things and ways, did slowly change those things that were the worst in us.
When a Catholic college finds itself trying to change after years of compromise on its own part, and trying to present itself anew to young people who were not raised to particularly respect the authority of the Church, I think it has a monumental task ahead of it.
But that does not mean the Pope ought not to express himself on the subject. After all, just as it was with my college, refusal to compromise is, itself, instructive, even if the recipient of the instruction is not particularly disposed to be accepting of it.
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hasikelee
Guest
I totally disagree with you. My hubby can learn plenty more about other religions without having to go to SLU’s religion class and be verbally assaulted by a gay, transvestite teacher who claimed Buddha was as good as Jesus.
Give students some credit. They are not sheltered, naive kids who must be exposed to even more pornography, communism, fascism, contraceptive/abortive theories, fake science, etc. They get plenty of that their entire life.
I wish I could find a school, other than the local community college, that was able to give students a safe, clean environment to intensely and honestly learn. Forget the experience.
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Freshman88
Guest
I could have sworn I was here for an education…
Anyway, the main concern is the amount of heretical garbage that these schools are pushing. Either they teach Catholicism, or they find a non-Catholic school to push their heresy.
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VociMike
Guest
And if they’re lucky, to teach them something that is both important and true, and to train them in how to separate truth from falsehood.
No idea should be rejected at face value without some further discussion as to what it is all about and how it relates to life.
This is true. But it doesn’t happen at dissident Catholic colleges. They never challenge their own dissent. No dissident does.
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Bob_Byrnes
Guest
A University is a place where all ideas should be open to study and discussion. To restrict open dialogue about moral questions is to cease to be a University. The censure of Father Charles Curran at Catholic University years ago was, in my opinion, a disgraceful act. Certainly,if I were a moral theologian, I would not join the faculty of Catholic University where discussion and research can be controlled by Bishops who are not even trained theologians. A College or University that restricts discussion or study is an oxymoron.
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donmaximuso27
Guest
A Catholic University should be unrestricted in secular matters, such as liberal arts, sciences, etc. However, regarding faith and morals, which, remember, the Church is infallible, Catholic Universities must stay true to the faith. My older sister attended a Jesuit University in PA where she was taught justifications of gay marriage by Jesuit professors! She even had a Jesuit professor who shared his homosexuality! A university that is Catholic must stay true to the faith and morals of the Church, otherwise it should be just a typical secular, modernist university. It is much better to be a oxymoron regarding the purpose of a university, rather then be an oxymoron regarding a Catholic school going against Catholic teaching.
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Bob_Byrnes
Guest
Everything the Church teaches is not necessarily infallible. It is only through argument and dialogue that the truth can be found, otherwise we would still be teaching that slavery was permissible.
Free dialogue about gay marriage is not a rejection of the Church’s current teaching anymore than disagreeing with a Church teaching is necessarily a rejection of that teaching. I can certainly disagree with the Church’s position on women’s ordination but still accept the current teaching. I also find it somewhat refreshing that a Jesuit priest would share his homosexuality with his students. I find little difference between a gay celibate and a straight celibate. Would that all the gay celibates in the priesthood would share their homosexuality… perhaps there would be a little less homophobia. If he meant that he was living in a homosexual relationship that is a different matter since he has taken a vow of celibacy.
I also believe that College students should be mature enough and strong enough to question and challenge their professors if they disagree. (Sadly too many students do not do that.) In my experience and I am a College Professor, most higher education teachers welcome argument and dissent among their students. The argument that if you disagree with your teacher you get a lower grade is far too often quoted by students than the actual facts would show. Occasionally, yes, but much more often the Professor will respect and reward the dissenter. Conflict (not hostility) can be one of the most effective learning experiences.
Free dialogue about gay marriage is not a rejection of the Church’s current teaching anymore than disagreeing with a Church teaching is necessarily a rejection of that teaching. I can certainly disagree with the Church’s position on women’s ordination but still accept the current teaching. I also find it somewhat refreshing that a Jesuit priest would share his homosexuality with his students. I find little difference between a gay celibate and a straight celibate. Would that all the gay celibates in the priesthood would share their homosexuality… perhaps there would be a little less homophobia. If he meant that he was living in a homosexual relationship that is a different matter since he has taken a vow of celibacy.
I also believe that College students should be mature enough and strong enough to question and challenge their professors if they disagree. (Sadly too many students do not do that.) In my experience and I am a College Professor, most higher education teachers welcome argument and dissent among their students. The argument that if you disagree with your teacher you get a lower grade is far too often quoted by students than the actual facts would show. Occasionally, yes, but much more often the Professor will respect and reward the dissenter. Conflict (not hostility) can be one of the most effective learning experiences.
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Kekule
Guest
I am amazed to see that some Catholics consider U. of Notre Dame to fall short of traditional Catholic teaching. Granted, I was there ~ 20 years ago, but at that time I thought it was substantially more conservative than my then somewhat liberal attitude desired.
I graduated from the College of Science and thus cannot provide too much insight into the theology or philosophy departments. However, from an undergraduate point of view (albeit 20 years in retrospect), all the philosophy & theology courses I took were kosher.
Campus life was also very Catholic. Most students attended weekly mass and received the sacraments. The University lacked co-ed dormitories and even tracked down graduate students living off campus who were living (platonically) as roommates and required them to get separate housing!
Is all this uproar concerning ND over the Vagina Monologues? I never saw the play and I think the concept is ridiculous. From what I understand, a number of the themes are morally unacceptable. However, should a Catholic University ban every student play/movie/ work of literature with morally unacceptable themes? This seems way over the top to me.
I graduated from the College of Science and thus cannot provide too much insight into the theology or philosophy departments. However, from an undergraduate point of view (albeit 20 years in retrospect), all the philosophy & theology courses I took were kosher.
Campus life was also very Catholic. Most students attended weekly mass and received the sacraments. The University lacked co-ed dormitories and even tracked down graduate students living off campus who were living (platonically) as roommates and required them to get separate housing!
Is all this uproar concerning ND over the Vagina Monologues? I never saw the play and I think the concept is ridiculous. From what I understand, a number of the themes are morally unacceptable. However, should a Catholic University ban every student play/movie/ work of literature with morally unacceptable themes? This seems way over the top to me.
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donmaximuso27
Guest
Everything the church teaches regarding faith and morals is infallible. To deny that is to deny the authority given to the Church through Peter by Christ; I won’t even bother refuting a rejection to the Church’s infallibility on faith and morals in a Catholic forum. Is it right to discuss homosexuality in a classroom for educational purposes? Sure. And I will correct my mistake in that a celibate homosexual is not committing mortal sin. But should a priest at a Catholic university promote gay marriage? Absolutely not! This is strictly against Church teaching on faith and morals. Catholic Universities that attempt to defy the Church’s infallibility in faith and morals should either be reformed or stripped of their Catholic stance. Come on now, we are talking about an extremely important issue: Should Catholic Universities, Catholic, stay on a strict course of infallible Catholic faith and morals? Obviously.
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dbacks5439
Guest
America has the number one army in the world. Our military history is extremely rich, with many 4-star generals having been educated at West Point and other prestigious military academies across the country. They continue to do this because of the no-nonsense quality of education. In the same way, Catholic universities train its students to be soldiers for Christ. Before the Church of the Nazarene came to Bourbonnais, the campus was built and run by the Viatorians. This small college gave rise to two prominent Bishops: an auxiliary Bishop of Chicago (whose name escapes me 
) and Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen. Just as military academies educate future generals, so do Catholic universities and I assure you, if the military academies had the same level of education as most Catholic universities do today, even Antarctica would have a better army than we do. God is raising an army to combat modernism, progressivism, and relativism. First, the formation of these spiritual soldiers begins with the parents. The Catholic educational system has the charge of nurturing that faith which has been given them by their parents. Most Catholic universities are not doing that, and thus the war continues to be won by the modernists, etc. But for some, there is a civil war going on among campuses between the progressive faculty and students demanding the Catholic faith to be taught with full obedience to the Magisterium. Let me tell you, as a student at a Catholic university, we are winning that civil war. The tide is turning back towards the true Catholic Church.
) and Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen. Just as military academies educate future generals, so do Catholic universities and I assure you, if the military academies had the same level of education as most Catholic universities do today, even Antarctica would have a better army than we do. God is raising an army to combat modernism, progressivism, and relativism. First, the formation of these spiritual soldiers begins with the parents. The Catholic educational system has the charge of nurturing that faith which has been given them by their parents. Most Catholic universities are not doing that, and thus the war continues to be won by the modernists, etc. But for some, there is a civil war going on among campuses between the progressive faculty and students demanding the Catholic faith to be taught with full obedience to the Magisterium. Let me tell you, as a student at a Catholic university, we are winning that civil war. The tide is turning back towards the true Catholic Church.- Status