Catholic.com presidential poll

[anon67074017]

All the violent clashes at the Trump rally’s makes me fear a civil war if he wins. I still can’t understand how he got the votes to be the Republican nominee… But it is utterly frightening.

A civil war would be more likely if Bernie wins. It is the South that wants to secede and Bernie winning would give them a perfect excuse to secede.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A civil war would be more likely if Bernie wins. It is the South that wants to secede and Bernie winning would give them a perfect excuse to secede.

It won’t happen. First of all, Sanders has no chance of winning the primary, let alone the general.

Second, if by some fluke he was elected president, he would be the least accomplished president who ever served because nothing he wanted would ever happen and he couldn’t just veto everything congress wanted to do. He would spend most of his time in the oval office with no papers on his desk, no meetings to go to, and his phone not ringing.

So, no Civil War. No reason to try to exchange your greenbacks for Confederate money.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m in a similar situation as you.

I sometimes read Father Longenecker. I found this blog post put me a bit more at ease.

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2016/05/disturbed-by-the-presidential-election-take-my-advice.html

I read what the good father said, but I don’t agree with retreating from the world like the Amish do. Perhaps it was my Jesuit education. They were very emphatic that, other than for contemplatives, we have a moral duty to be citizens of our world and to act our part.

I, for one, am not yet persuaded that Trump is really equivalent to Clinton, That’s Father Longnecker’s premise, and I very much doubt he is right in his judgment of Trump. Just for one thing, “building an empire” is not necessarily motivated by greed. Look at Tom Monaghan, the founder of Domino’s. He was very ambitious and became a billionaire. For him, it was the “love of the game”. He loved building his company. That was his enjoyment, not the money. He has promised to die penniless, and he’s doing a fair job of getting it done. He started a genuinely Catholic University and has subsidized many a Catholic organization and parish.

For Trump, it might be a love of money, but it also might be the “love of the game”.

Are Monaghan or Trump evil, if that’s true? I don’t think so. Building a pizza chain or building a resort chain are both human endeavors, at which one can, by hard work, do well or poorly. Is a scientist who detects an anti-cancer virus evil or greedy? Probably not, though he might be richly rewarded for it. It’s the “love of the game”, the sense of discovery.

But sometimes people like them get resented because of what they are. There are people who despise Tom Monaghan, just as there are people who despise Trump. But to the extent any of them condemn either one without really knowing the heart of the person, they’re doing so out of ignorance or perhaps the “fear of the big”.

Having said that, I agree with Fr. Longnecker when it comes to subsidiarity. I, too, believe in it, very firmly. I also believe this society is far too centralized, particularly in the government sector, but also in the private sector. What’s the cure for that?

Well, it’s certainly not opting for more of the same. And as with abortion on demand, which only Hillary Clinton promotes among the two candidates, I believe we have an obligation to fight against them to the extent of our strength.

What does that mean when it comes to subsidiarity? Well, it certainly means encouraging, through one’s actions, local responsibility. That includes the family, which is the primary unit of subsidiarity. But it also includes parish, secular community, region, state. And we, as Catholics who believe in subsidiarity, are swimming upstream when it comes to that, because so much in this society is anti-family, anti-local, indeed, anti-Catholic.

But we don’t fight for it by leaving the field. Having said that, I truly believe there are people whose sensitivities are such that they can’t deal with the world; whose tendency to anxiety is so strong that they can’t deal with it and whose only recourse is retreat.

But I don’t think those folks are the majority by any means.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Which one is the " third" party? How does one dicern those people and know thier stances and character it marital history and financial history?

If a voter wishes not to vote for one of the 2 candidates who actually have a chance to be our next President, then whichever of the other names on the ballot they choose, can be their “3rd option”.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If a voter wishes not to vote for one of the 2 candidates who actually have a chance to be our next President, then whichever of the other names on the ballot they choose, can be their “3rd option”.

It’s a bad misnomer if there is more than three choices. Let’s call it 9th party…

 

[estesbob]

Thanks for that link. How wonderfully written and full of common sense. Fr. and I could have a good chat (read my first post on my new blog…)

I can take comfort in the fact that our local parishes and archdiocese are doing quite a lot with regard to the poor, unborn children, etc. Local politicians are largely pro-life, but fall far short on other aspects of Catholic social teaching. At the state level, the situation is dire, with rampant corruption. It’s enough to make my head spin.

He Is basically saying that Catholics should cede the political playing field on the national level to those who support abortion, homosexual marriage and gender delusion . Most certainly not what our church teaches . Voting often requires us to make tough decisions -one of which should not be to restrict ourselves to voting for the local dog catcher while the culture crumbles around us

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

He Is basically saying that Catholics should cede the political playing field on the national level to those who support abortion, homosexual marriage and gender delusion . Most certainly not what our church teaches . Voting often requires us to make tough decisions -one of which should not be to restrict ourselves to voting for the local dog catcher while the culture crumbles around us

Yes.

If we simply had to wait for the Church to tell us exactly which name to select in an election, why would we get any credit for electing good men? Where is the courage and moral fortitude in that? People want to abdicate their responsibility to make tough calls.

The fact is there is enough writing and history on the subject, both in terms of voting, and in terms of issues of moral gravity. Saints have addressed it. Popes have addressed it.

Anyone really confused election after election is just looking for reasons to do what they want to do. That’s fine, but just admit it. No one reading their posts is dumb enough to believe they really don’t know what to do.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

He Is basically saying that Catholics should cede the political playing field on the national level to those who support abortion, homosexual marriage and gender delusion . Most certainly not what our church teaches . Voting often requires us to make tough decisions -one of which should not be to restrict ourselves to voting for the local dog catcher while the culture crumbles around us

Yes the culture is crumbling around us. That’s why we have two terrible choices.

The republican party could have regrouped after losing to Obama in 2008. We’re in a sinking ship and the savior of the unborn is supposed to be Donald Trump.

He gave 65,000 to Andrew Cuomo.

Yet not one nickle (that I can see) to New York right to life, or any other New York pro life organization. New York City tried to legislate against crisis pregnancy centers, because 50% of pregnancies ending in abortion was apparently not enough. Why did he ignore that? Where was his vocal support and monetary support for the prolife cause?

He praises Planned Parenthood. OK,he put in a caveat about him not liking abortion. What else do they do? They hand out a lot of contraceptives. They don’t do prenatal care.They refer out for cancer treatments and mammograms because they don’t have those services. And they don’t need government funding, they make a profit yearly.

He’s not sure at what point during pregnancy abortion should be illegal, possibly after the first trimester (most abortions occur at that time)

The anniversary of Roe v Wade, all the other candidates made statements that day in favor of life. He came out with something the next day, as an afterthought.

I joined the republican party because they were supposed to be pro-life. Then why is this fellow the candidate?

I can’t overlook these things. It goes against my conscience to overlook these things, and to put my trust in this candidate.

I am changing my voter registration to “Independent” and I feel sadness.

If Hillary wins, it’s because the Republicans picked a really, incredibly flawed candidate. Not because of my not voting for either one.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes the culture is crumbling around us. That’s why we have two terrible choices.

The republican party could have regrouped after losing to Obama in 2008. We’re in a sinking ship and the savior of the unborn is supposed to be Donald Trump.

He gave 65,000 to Andrew Cuomo.

Yet not one nickle (that I can see) to New York right to life, or any other New York pro life organization. New York City tried to legislate against crisis pregnancy centers, because 50% of pregnancies ending in abortion was apparently not enough. Why did he ignore that? Where was his vocal support and monetary support?

He praises Planned Parenthood. OK,he put in a caveat about him not liking abortion. What else do they do? They hand out a lot of contraceptives. They don’t do prenatal care.They refer out for cancer treatments and mammograms because they don’t have those services. And they don’t need government funding, they make a profit yearly.

He’s not sure at what point during pregnancy abortion should be illegal, possibly after the first trimester (most abortions occur at that time)

The anniversary of Roe v Wade, all the other candidates made statements that day in favor of life. He came out with something the next day, as an afterthought.

I joined the republican party because they were supposed to be pro-life. Then why is this fellow the candidate?

I can’t overlook these things. It goes against my conscience to overlook these things, and to put my trust in this candidate.

I am changing my voter registration to “Independent” and I feel sadness.

If Hillary wins, it’s because the Republicans picked a really, incredibly flawed candidate. Not because of my not voting for either one.

Results matter.

If Trump so much as appoints the kinds of justices to the Supreme Court he has on his list so far, then I won’t care if he kisses Andrew Cuomo on the lips.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Thanks for that link. How wonderfully written and full of common sense. Fr. and I could have a good chat (read my first post on my new blog…)

I can take comfort in the fact that our local parishes and archdiocese are doing quite a lot with regard to the poor, unborn children, etc. Local politicians are largely pro-life, but fall far short on other aspects of Catholic social teaching. At the state level, the situation is dire, with rampant corruption. It’s enough to make my head spin.

You’re welcome. I read your blog post. Very good.

 

[estesbob]

Yes the culture is crumbling around us. That’s why we have two terrible choices.

The republican party could have regrouped after losing to Obama in 2008. We’re in a sinking ship and the savior of the unborn is supposed to be Donald Trump.

He gave 65,000 to Andrew Cuomo.

Yet not one nickle (that I can see) to New York right to life, or any other New York pro life organization. New York City tried to legislate against crisis pregnancy centers, because 50% of pregnancies ending in abortion was apparently not enough. Why did he ignore that? Where was his vocal support and monetary support for the prolife cause?

He praises Planned Parenthood. OK,he put in a caveat about him not liking abortion. What else do they do? They hand out a lot of contraceptives. They don’t do prenatal care.They refer out for cancer treatments and mammograms because they don’t have those services. And they don’t need government funding, they make a profit yearly.

He’s not sure at what point during pregnancy abortion should be illegal, possibly after the first trimester (most abortions occur at that time)

The anniversary of Roe v Wade, all the other candidates made statements that day in favor of life. He came out with something the next day, as an afterthought.

I joined the republican party because they were supposed to be pro-life. Then why is this fellow the candidate?

I can’t overlook these things. It goes against my conscience to overlook these things, and to put my trust in this candidate.

I am changing my voter registration to “Independent” and I feel sadness.

If Hillary wins, it’s because the Republicans picked a really, incredibly flawed candidate. Not because of my not voting for either one.

If Hillary wins it will because people of goodwill stayed home and let her take power. If Hillary wins we will not see abortion made illegal in this country for at least another generation . Catholics cannot merely sit the election out because they were not provided with a “perfect” candidate . We simply cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the possible . And if Hillary does take power I would hope that those who sat at home will have the courtesy not to complain as a culture continues to crumble around us . I don’t like Trump but I will not stay home until much is at stake .

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

If Hillary wins it will because people of goodwill stayed home and let her take power. If Hillary wins we will not see abortion made illegal in this country for at least another generation . Catholics cannot merely sit the election out because they were not provided with a “perfect” candidate . We simply cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the possible . And if Hillary does take power I would hope that those who sat at home will have the courtesy not to complain as a culture continues to crumble around us . I don’t like Trump but I will not stay home until much is at stake .

Why wasn’t the prolife cause more important during the primary process?

I don’t even want a perfect candidate.

If I’m supposed to vote for Trump because he’s prolife, I’d be lying to myself.

Both Candidates are almost 70, so older than Ronald Reagan was. Most Americans dislike both candidates. I can’t foresee either one running a second term.

My state is most likely going one way, the same way it’s gone for about 45 years.

My vote won’t change the election. But it would cause me to go against my conscience.

And for the record, my husband and I are middle class. We don’t even have a fraction of a fraction of any of the assets Trump would have. We support prolife organizations. I’ll vote prolife for my senator, and congressperson.

 

[livnlern]

I read what the good father said, but I don’t agree with retreating from the world like the Amish do. Perhaps it was my Jesuit education. They were very emphatic that, other than for contemplatives, we have a moral duty to be citizens of our world and to act our part.

I, for one, am not yet persuaded that Trump is really equivalent to Clinton, That’s Father Longnecker’s premise, and I very much doubt he is right in his judgment of Trump. Just for one thing, “building an empire” is not necessarily motivated by greed. Look at Tom Monaghan, the founder of Domino’s. He was very ambitious and became a billionaire. For him, it was the “love of the game”. He loved building his company. That was his enjoyment, not the money. He has promised to die penniless, and he’s doing a fair job of getting it done. He started a genuinely Catholic University and has subsidized many a Catholic organization and parish.

For Trump, it might be a love of money, but it also might be the “love of the game”.

Are Monaghan or Trump evil, if that’s true? I don’t think so. Building a pizza chain or building a resort chain are both human endeavors, at which one can, by hard work, do well or poorly. Is a scientist who detects an anti-cancer virus evil or greedy? Probably not, though he might be richly rewarded for it. It’s the “love of the game”, the sense of discovery.

Also, Trump and Monahan are using the gifts and talents given to them by God. I’m not saying I agree with everything Trump does, but he obviously has a talent for leading people and for getting the job done. Today’s Gospel reading has to do with the withered fig tree. We each have gifts and abilities that we need to use in order to bare fruit.
I know Trump has made millions with his knowledge and ability but how do we know what good he’s accomplished with this and what other good he may accomplish in the future because of what he’s able to do.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Looks like the libertarians finally have thier nominee for the #nevertrump crowd. Gary Johnson. A third( so far) possible choice. On the plus side he is fiscally conservative,
An ironman triathlete ( take that Putin) and has climbed all seven summits including Everest.

The down side he is pro abortion pro gay marriage pro pot, is divorced. And we’ll with apologies to New Mexico, was governor of a financial disaster of a state with an enormous drug problem…

So, I would love to hear how this is the moral high road as an alternative… For a Catholic.

 

[Forestarius]

Clinton is anti-Catholic and will not change. Trump is not in that fight yet.

Trump has the potential to do good. The worst he could do is act like Clinton. I’ll give him a chance to do good, knowing that if he fails, it won’t turn out as evil as allowing a Clinton to have more earthly powers.

 

[mary_bobo]

Looks like the libertarians finally have thier nominee for the #nevertrump crowd. Gary Johnson. A third( so far) possible choice. On the plus side he is fiscally conservative,
An ironman triathlete ( take that Putin) and has climbed all seven summits including Everest.

The down side he is pro abortion pro gay marriage pro pot, is divorced. And we’ll with apologies to New Mexico, was governor of a financial disaster of a state with an enormous drug problem…

So, I would love to hear how this is the moral high road as an alternative… For a Catholic.

‘’

All that he is pro on is why I cannot vote for a Libertarian.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

‘’

All that he is pro on is why I cannot vote for a Libertarian.

Gary Johnson is polling 3rd in his home state of New Mexico. Clinton leads 41%, to Trump’s 33%, to Johnson’s 14%.

All he’s doing is handing Clinton the state of New Mexico. Maybe he’s okay with that since he left the Republican Party. He’s pro-abortion, and pro-open borders like Clinton, so he probably doesn’t mind the Democats ultimately winning the state when it comes down to it.

nmpoliticalreport.com/44100/clinton-leads-in-nm-in-three-way-race/

 

[anon67074017]

Looks like the libertarians finally have thier nominee for the #nevertrump crowd. Gary Johnson. A third( so far) possible choice. On the plus side he is fiscally conservative,
An ironman triathlete ( take that Putin) and has climbed all seven summits including Everest.

The down side he is pro abortion pro gay marriage pro pot, is divorced. And we’ll with apologies to New Mexico, was governor of a financial disaster of a state with an enormous drug problem…

So, I would love to hear how this is the moral high road as an alternative… For a Catholic.

It shouldn’t matter that he is divorced. It should matter that is he pro-choice and in favor of same-sex marriage along with marijuana legalization.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Go Trump!

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

It shouldn’t matter that he is divorced. It should matter that is he pro-choice and in favor of same-sex marriage along with marijuana legalization.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened had the same-sex marriage ruling been handed down with LDS Romney as our President. I’m thinking he would have been asked about that ruling opening the door for plural marriages and what his response would have been.