Catholic.com presidential poll

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Crossbones said:
Now, I’m still waiting for you to provide the names of bishops that support voting for a candidate that advocates torture, targeting noncombatants and making racist statements. Please pass that along for us.
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Well sadly we didn’t have that but we proved the fact 181 voted against Obama and the democrats with ACA and religious liberty issues.
The president and his secretary for Health and Human Services are willingly and willfully precipitating a constitutional crisis by causing this assault on the freedom of religion at the federal level. Their judgement cannot be allowed to stand. I am certain that our church will pursue both judicial and legislative relief in the days and months coming. I also believe that we will prevail in the end, most likely in the judicial approach. The latest action follows the denial of funding to a respected agency (Migration and Refugee Services) of the church to help female victims of sexual trafficking heal from the terrible wounds inflicted on them in this country. Why? Because the church agency refused to provide abortions and contraception as options for these women.
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The lofty and hopeful words of the president at the time of his speech at Notre Dame three years ago about freedom of and respect for the religious conscience of all have been rendered questionable at best. What a tragedy and what a shame.
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Those of you who have known and watched me over the 16 years it has been my privilege to be your bishop know that I have until now refrained from engaging in political discourse. But this is now a moral issue and the timing by the president leaves me no option but to inform you of what is happening which I believe to be an assault on the sacred. I and my brother bishops did not choose this moment, the president and Secretary Sebelius did.
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I write to you in the hope that you might better understand the high stakes involved in this matter and that our efforts to overturn and reverse last week’s decision can be the beneficiary of your prayers and support. For additional information on this matter, I refer you to the diocesan website (dosp.org) and to my personal blog articles which can be accessed through the same address.
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John Carroll, our nation’s first Catholic bishop, and the early Catholics of the 13 original colonies came to these shores to escape precisely this form of religious intolerance and tyranny. For well over two centuries we have enjoyed the pluralistic benefits of their vision for freedom for all religions in this land of plenty. We just wish to be left alone to follow the dictates of our conscience. This is indeed the worst assault on religious freedom by the federal government in a long time. It cannot be allowed to stand.
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Wishing you every peace and blessing of this New Year, I remain
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Whats your thinking on the Little sisters and Obamacare? I faintly hear Dion in the 70s NY nights; “anyone here seen my old friend John” do you know where the democratic party has gone?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Well sadly we didn’t have that but we proved the fact 181 voted against Obama and the democrats with ACA and religious liberty issues.

Whats your thinking on the Little sisters and Obamacare? I faintly hear Dion in the 70s NY nights; “anyone here seen my old friend John” do you know where the democratic party has gone?
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Thank you for that. I will keep it in mind if/when I reconsider my position on voting this year.
 
pnewton said:
What about the one’s who wrote it.
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Wrote what? Surely you’re not referring to faithful citizenship because nowhere does it state you can vote forv abortion candidate when a pro-life alternative is available . In fact it supports the teaching that you cannot. In fact the numerous bishops that I have quoted you that explicitly stated you cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate helped write faithful citizenship . How do you reconcile your view of what this document says with the authors direct rejection of your view?
 
GaryTaylor said:
No response?
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To what?
🤷 Your always appearing opinion is missing?
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About Little Sisters. Well, I’ll be honest. I don’t understand why Little Sisters didn’t sign the form that every other Catholic institution did, but even with that in mind, I think socialized medicine closer to the Canadian system would be a better way to go for the US.
 
Crossbones said:
To what?

About Little Sisters. Well, I’ll be honest. I don’t understand why Little Sisters didn’t sign the form that every other Catholic institution did,.
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Actually, not every other one did. There are a number of participants in the lawsuits. Even secularized Notre Dame refused, but later caved in, possibly under threat of withdrawal of federal funds.

Here is another group of sisters who refuse. But their work is to help women in need avoid abortion and go on to live better lives. So obviously, Hillary is going to want them to “change their religion” and embrace the very evil they give their lives to combat.

sistersoflife.org/
 
Crossbones said:
To what?

About Little Sisters. Well, I’ll be honest. I don’t understand why Little Sisters didn’t sign the form that every other Catholic institution did, but even with that in mind, I think socialized medicine closer to the Canadian system would be a better way to go for the US.
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Why do you think they were the only institution that was Catholic that did not? Other Catholic institutions sued, as well as non-Catholic institutions, how many of them have since signed it!?
 
Ridgerunner said:
Actually, not every other one did. There are a number of participants in the lawsuits. Even secularized Notre Dame refused, but later caved in, possibly under threat of withdrawal of federal funds.

Here is another group of sisters who refuse. But their work is to help women in need avoid abortion and go on to live better lives. So obviously, Hillary is going to want them to “change their religion” and embrace the very evil they give their lives to combat.

sistersoflife.org/
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Yes, a few didn’t and most did. I just am saying that I don’t understand why they didn’t sign it when most did, that’s all. I didn’t explore the issue deeply or pretend to understand it completely.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Why do you think they were the only institution that was Catholic that did not? Other Catholic institutions sued, as well as non-Catholic institutions, how many of them have since signed it!?
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You’re right, most did sign it, but not every other one. I apologize for my error.
 
Crossbones said:
I didn’t realize that pointing people to Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, a guide provided for and approved by the vast majority of bishops in attendance was going down a rabbit hole. …
…
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I am sure you didn’t realize
If you had bother to read my post though, you might have.
 
Darryl1958 said:
I am sure you didn’t realize
If you had bother to read my post though, you might have.
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Do you have that list of bishops that support voting for a candidate that wants to torture terrorists, target noncombatants and make racist statements? I am waiting patiently.
 
Crossbones said:
Do you have that list of bishops that support voting for a candidate that wants to torture terrorists, target noncombatants and make racist statements? I am waiting patiently.
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Yes. The US CIA tortured and viciously beat an innocent man Maher Arar after kidnapping him and taking him to Syria. How many more innocent people have been tortured by the US government? Once torture is allowed, who knows whether or not American federal agents will come for you?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It does not say you can’t.
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It says you can’t if you are voting to further that policy:

A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy promoting an intrinsically evil act, such as abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, deliberately subjecting workers or the poor to subhuman living conditions, redefining marriage in ways that violate its essential meaning, or racist behavior, if the voter’s intent is to support that position.

On the other hand, the moral weight given to abortion is a huge scale tipper, but then so is mass annihilation, if you think that is a possible outcome
 
Tomdstone said:
Yes. The US CIA tortured and viciously beat an innocent man Maher Arar after kidnapping him and taking him to Syria. How many more innocent people have been tortured by the US government? Once torture is allowed, who knows whether or not American federal agents will come for you?
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I am not aware of any bishop that has said that you can support a candidate that supports torturing terrorists. I keep asking, but no one has answered.
 
Crossbones said:
Do you have that list of bishops that support voting for a candidate that wants to torture terrorists, target noncombatants and make racist statements? I am waiting patiently.
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What does that got to do with me?
The discussion that I entered into was about estesbob’s point #3.

Troll much?
 
Darryl1958 said:
What does that got to do with me?
The discussion that I entered into was about estesbob’s point #3.

Troll much?
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You seem to be concerned about having a name of a bishop that supports voting for a pro-choice candidate. I’m asking you to provide a name of a bishop that supports voting for a pro-torture, pro-targeting noncombatants, pro-racist statement candidate. Surely you have such a name. Please provide it.
 
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