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jmcrae
Guest
This is exactly it - also, nobody makes any money off of monogamy.
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mlchance
Guest
The best approach is for people to stop fornicating.
For someone who keeps harping on “life-and-death” issues, you seem awfully intent on encouraging people to commit mortal sin by violating natural law and divine law.
– Mark L. Chance.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
And there are lots of those who choose not to. The ABC is Abistance, Be Faithful, and Condoms. It is just one tool and the last resort if it will happen. I have brought up that you can confess to the acts and be forgiven but not get rid of the HIV virus. People should be well informed on the best protection so a night of bad judgment does not turn into a death sentence. We need to look out for those who fall through the cracks here and do the best for them.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Irrelevant, most AIDS is now spread through heterosexual relations.
The best approach is for people to stop fornicating.
For someone who keeps harping on “life-and-death” issues, you seem awfully intent on encouraging people to commit mortal sin by violating natural law and divine law.
– Mark L. Chance.
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estesbob
Guest
It is true only in certain parts of Africa. In most of the world AIDS remains primarily a disease that afflicts homosexuals and intravenous drug users. In the United States, for instance, a miniscule number of heterosexuals contract AIDS every year-a number so low it is almost statistically insignificant. If I recall correctly it amounts to around 14,000 people out of the heterosexual population of a little over 290 million . Given people are reluctant report drug use and/or homosexual behavior a significant number of that 14,000 was probably not the result of heterosexual sex at all.
At the beginning of the AIDS plague tens of thousands of homosexuals probably died in the United States as a result of AIDS being treated as a population wide problem rather than focusing on the people who were really at risk.
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estesbob
Guest
And if people choose not to how does that make it the fault of the Catholic Church who is telling them specifically what dangers they face with extramarital sex.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
It is taking away the last safety net. The broadest education and tools is what is needed due to the life and death situations faced. Lives would be saved by doing this.
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yugnok
Guest
Again what does the church’s teachings on contraception have to do with people who are fornicating. If someone doesn’t care about the Churches teaching on sexuality, why are they going to care about the their teachings on contraception? Her teachings on contraception already presume that you are in a married/monogamous state.
As if when they are about to engage in extramarital sex, they are going to say “Hey baby, sorry I don’t don’t believe in condoms. I don’t want to separate the unitive and procreative meanings of human sexuality.” Then the Church is to blame when you get aids?!
The Church is not in the business of telling people how to sin better, but to tell you how to avoid sin all together and to do good.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Yet the point is some still do contract it. There is a difference between statistically insignificant and zero. Some peoples’ lives are at risk. Outbreaks do start off small anyways and the few who have it need to be informed enough to keep it in check. It is actually on a slow increase.
medindia.net/patients/aids/Aidsdistribution.htm
It also comes down to what I have talked about before, you cannot confess HIV/AIDS away. You can confess the actions, but not the disease. The more that can be done, before, and during and which may save a life is worth it. This is a “pro-life” issue.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
“Fornication” is not the proper term to use here, as it distorts the issue.
That is an assumption on what will happen in the bedroom about condom refusal. Sure, there are some who we can never reach, but there are others who will listen and hold tight, even more so if it is backed as a health recommendation from the Church. Some may compromise a bit, but not all the way. It is not a matter of refusal of all or none of the current teachings.
The key here is the sin in this case can be a life and death situation, as the Church is also worldwide and has responsibilities besides the US (e.g. Africa). A life saved in Africa is still a life saved, if they are Catholic or not.
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estesbob
Guest
Who is taking away the safety net? Certainly not the church. The church offers a solution for all.
Again the idea that people are going to follow church teachings on contraception but ignore them on extramarital sex is specious. The truth of the matter is people want the church to accept condoms as a way of validating promiscuity. Of course the church is not going to do this and again it is ridiculous that the church is blamed for the spread of a disease that is based totally on personal behavior.
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yugnok
Guest
How does using the word fornication distort the issue? It is the exact, proper term to use for someone having extramarital sex (we could also throw sodomy and adultery into the mix).
So again, why would anyone care about the Church’s teaching regarding contraception if they ignore the more basic teachings about sex within marriage?
Its entirely preposterous to say that its the Church’s fault if someone doesn’t use a condom while engaging in extramarital sex.
Exactly what you asking the Church to do? Make an official statement saying, “Hey if you are going to fornicate in Haiti, be sure to use a condom.” Or are you asking them to start distributing condoms too?
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BeeSweet
Guest
The church can not endorse the use of condoms to prevent STDs because it would be a lie for them to do so. Condoms do not prevent the incidence of STDs, only behavior modification will.
The first case of HIV was reported in both the Philippines and Thailand in 1984, and by 1987, Thailand had 112 cases of AIDS, and the Philippines had 135 cases. Thailand enacted a “100% Condom Use Program” in 1991. All brothels were required to have supplies of condoms, and condom vending machines were installed in all supermarkets, bars, restaurants, and other public gathering places. The program was widely accepted and implemented by the people of Thailand. Two years later the Philippines, working with the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) established the program AIDS-free Philippines, which did not allow for condom use. By 2003, the infection rate in the two countries were as follows:
Adults and children with HIV
Thailand 570,000 Philippines 9,000
AIDS deaths
Thailand 58,000 Philippines 500
Population
Thailand 62,833,000 Philippines 79,999,000
HIV Infection Rates Per Million
Thailand 9,072 Philippines 113
Far more lives were saved in the Philippines through behavior modification in keeping with the standards of the Catholic church than were saved with the promotion of condoms in Thailand. Condom use encourages behavior that leads to STD infections, that’s the bottom line. Telling people to use condoms in lieu of stopping risky behaviors is like letting children play on railroad tracks. Sooner or later, they’re gonna get hit by a train.
Compare the Philippine infection rate of 113 per million to the US infection rate (as of 2006) of 3,900 per million. For all our hundreds of thousands of condoms and all our wonderful medical technology, the Philippines is containing the spread of the disease far better than we are.
The effectivity rates advertised on condoms are based on laboratory results, not real life. The truth is that condoms are extremely easy to mis-use. One of the easiest ways to mis-use one is to first put it on upside down, realize your mistake, and turn it over to put it on correctly. Well, that leaves pre-ejaculate seminal fluid on the wrong side of the condom!
The church simply can not endorse condom use because it is not a fail-safe option.
The first case of HIV was reported in both the Philippines and Thailand in 1984, and by 1987, Thailand had 112 cases of AIDS, and the Philippines had 135 cases. Thailand enacted a “100% Condom Use Program” in 1991. All brothels were required to have supplies of condoms, and condom vending machines were installed in all supermarkets, bars, restaurants, and other public gathering places. The program was widely accepted and implemented by the people of Thailand. Two years later the Philippines, working with the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) established the program AIDS-free Philippines, which did not allow for condom use. By 2003, the infection rate in the two countries were as follows:
Adults and children with HIV
Thailand 570,000 Philippines 9,000
AIDS deaths
Thailand 58,000 Philippines 500
Population
Thailand 62,833,000 Philippines 79,999,000
HIV Infection Rates Per Million
Thailand 9,072 Philippines 113
Far more lives were saved in the Philippines through behavior modification in keeping with the standards of the Catholic church than were saved with the promotion of condoms in Thailand. Condom use encourages behavior that leads to STD infections, that’s the bottom line. Telling people to use condoms in lieu of stopping risky behaviors is like letting children play on railroad tracks. Sooner or later, they’re gonna get hit by a train.
Compare the Philippine infection rate of 113 per million to the US infection rate (as of 2006) of 3,900 per million. For all our hundreds of thousands of condoms and all our wonderful medical technology, the Philippines is containing the spread of the disease far better than we are.
The effectivity rates advertised on condoms are based on laboratory results, not real life. The truth is that condoms are extremely easy to mis-use. One of the easiest ways to mis-use one is to first put it on upside down, realize your mistake, and turn it over to put it on correctly. Well, that leaves pre-ejaculate seminal fluid on the wrong side of the condom!
The church simply can not endorse condom use because it is not a fail-safe option.
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mlchance
Guest
Natural law and divine law are irrelevant? What an odd thing for someone encouraging the practice of charity to claim.
It’s not? I’m skeptical. Let’s consider me for a moment. The only why I could contract HIV/AIDS is by either me committing adultery or my wife doing the same. Otherwise, as long as my wife and I obey natural law and divine law, we’re safe.
Precisely. The wages of sin is death. You’re advocating sin by advocating the use of condoms. You’re advocating death. That’s not very pro-life of you.
– Mark L. Chance.
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yugnok
Guest
Its true that the wages of sin is death. But even if you take sin out of the picture altogether, the Church sitting on the only true solution to aids: abstinence and monogamy–a behavior that excludes the possibility of the spread of aids.
The rest are saying don’t change your deadly behavior because you can’t control yourselves (you are all just glorified apes anyways) just put this condom on and you are safe. Well thats a lie, and it just promotes the same behavior and animalistic view of the human person that spreads aids in the first place.
You don’t even have to bring up sin. Its just a matter reason.
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Adonis33
Guest
My thought exactly. It seems to me that people that want to throw condoms at the problem regard the populace a little better than animals.
The Church says ; No - they aren’t animals but human beings with a soul and an intellect. They have a choice. The Church is asking then to make, not only the moral choice (HOW DARE THEM!), but the ONLY choice that is guarunteed not to spread AIDS.
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beckers
Guest
thank you for a perfect example of why we can’t support the use of condoms
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beckers
Guest
Lets be honest. No matter what you do people will die of a disease. Even into todays time people die from basic infections, chicken pox or any numbers diseases. Lots of these things could be stopped by a simple process…Washing your hands…Simple and people still don’t do it. Throwing condoms at a problem is not solving anything. People are still going to make choices that go against the church’s views.
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beckers
Guest
Yes the church will forgive you but she is not a mircale worker and can’t cure your medical issues be it AIDS or pregency. You have to live with the consquences of your actions. The church is thinking more about your soul than your body. You can’t except her to change her ideas to simple make it easier for people. We should be submitting the rules of God not the rule of human kind. If we followed God’s views about sex than there would be no issue.Yet the point is some still do contract it. There is a difference between statistically insignificant and zero. Some peoples’ lives are at risk. Outbreaks do start off small anyways and the few who have it need to be informed enough to keep it in check. It is actually on a slow increase.
medindia.net/patients/aids/Aidsdistribution.htm
It also comes down to what I have talked about before, you cannot confess HIV/AIDS away. **You can confess the actions, but not the disease. **The more that can be done, before, and during and which may save a life is worth it. This is a “pro-life” issue.
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ilovekittens
Guest
Not animals - weak human beings who are prone to making mistakes, no matter how good their intentions are.
If the Church really expects people to abide by Her teachings 100% of the time, then, gosh, why is there a need for a police force, or laws, or government, in Latin America? People in general don’t live blemish-free, sinless lives, even very good people. We all commit sin. The consequences of a random act of promiscuity in a land where AIDS is rampant can be great - not just for the person who commits the act, but for his/her unknowing and wholly innocent spouse, and maybe whatever children they may subsequently have.
Until an effective vaccine or antiviral medicine is found, the focus of AIDS treatment in third world countries has to be on prevention. Condoms, along with education and abstinence/monogamy promotion, are an important way of preventing the spread of this disease.
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