Catholic democrats?

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Hello everyone,

I’m new here and also a recent convert to the Catholic Faith. I was going to post this on a previous post but it was closed. Anyways I have always been a pro-life Democrat and my point is how can anyone say I voted for Bush because he’s pro-life when it’s pretty clear that over 5’000 innocent pregnant women and others were killed in a war that clearly does not meet the just war doctrine of the Church.
 
4000 babies died in our country alone, TODAY. They weren’t “accidently” killed. it was premeditated, it was cold, and it was clinical. They were completely defensless, and were innocent as innocent can be.

There isn’t a “Just Abortion Doctrine” to quibble or debate about here. One party supports abortion-on-demand. YOURS. One party at the very least, fights to curb abortion, if not stamp it out. By the way, the Holy Father has said (and written) that without the right to life, we don’t really have any others, as we get all others FROM our right to life.

Also, we are BOUND as Catholics to follow the church teaching on abortion, contraception, and other life issues.

We are NOT bound on the subjects of war and the death penalty.

We can debate the war if you like, but I suggest you do a search on the Just War Doctrine in these forums. You’ll learn alot. IUt may not change your mind, but it’s worth a look.

By the way, WELCOME to the Catholic Faith!!
 
please dont compare the war to abortion. and say the blanket statement that the was doesnt meet the criteria for a just war. I can as easily say it does.and remember while the Pope didnt agree with us invaiding Iraq, has not condemned the war either, therefore neither should you.
 
I’m not condeming the war. I just think that there is no difference in the SLAUGHTER of innocence pregnant women. And a women who commits abortion. The right to live is alawys important. By the way the college of Bishops believe that in our day in time it is near impossible to meet the criteria for the just war doctrine. And don’t misunderstand me. The right to live is VERY important, But so are other very critical issue’s that the Republican party does not uphold that represents our faith. The Church is to always align it’s self with the poor, and the ones who feel helpless. One more thing numbers are really not that important one murder is to many and one abortion is to many. Not all democrats condone our support abortion, and I will love the day when they turn away from that possition and trust it will happen sooner or later. I refuse to be a single issue voter. Remember Catholics were split 50 50 in the last election and in the 40’s 50’s and 60’s almost all Catholics were Democrat. I personally consider myself independent but I’m just facinated at how many people think bush is this great moral leader. Because his policy sure dosent show it.

Peace be with you all.
 
Are you aware of this just out?

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http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: I stand corrected: The war in Iraq is a good thing…a very good thing
The New York Times just reported that Iraq did have chemical and biological weapons. Also nuclear components. They were apparently taken to a “neighboring state”. This is the most liberal major paper in the nation and it now agrees with Bush. So yes, we did a good thing.
“Semper Idem”

“You worship God in your way and I in His.” (Cardinal Manning)
​
 
I did just read that. But using that approach, that means someone should invade us because we have enough bio, chem and nuclear weapons to whip out the world 4 times over it doesn’t make since. I guess we should be the only ones with the weapons and take out the rest of the world. You know N. Korea, Pakistan, India, Iran, France, Britain, Austrailia and others have the same weapons too. Also the main reason Iraq had any weapons of mass destruction is because WE gave them to them during the Iran Iraq war. Just because a Country has certain weapons does not give us the right to invade a soviergn Country. I fully believe if we continue to ignore others and go it alone we will eventually fall just as the roman empire.
 
I am sorrybut Saddam Hussien is a meglomaiac and he has no business with those things.God Bless
 
We don’t have biological or chemical weapons, where did you hear that? And if you think that it is alright for us to kill 45 million of our own children but then say that it is worse to acidentally and unittentionaly kill 5000 pregnent women in Iraq while liberating them from a evil dictator that ran death camps you have faulty logic. And where did you get this figure of 5000 pregnent women?
 
Politics are always tough. It seems like sometimes I just pick who’s the least bad. This last election was a no-brainer however. Bush was against abortion, stem cell research, cloning, euthanasia, and gay marriage. Kerry was for pretty much all of these things. He even supports abortions on-demand including partial birth abortions. You say 5000 innocent Iraqis have died? 4000 innocent children are slaughtered everyday. That is 1,460,000 per year. Second, The fact that there could be as many as four justices retiring this term means that we could actually see real change.

Catholics were split in the last election because most Catholics today are what are called cafeteria Catholics. They pick and choose what to believe and they put their own opinions over the teachings of the Church. Something like 80% (or more) of Catholics use contraception. That doesn’t make it ok.

Catholics were Democrats back in the day because the Democratic Party did not make killing millions of babies in cold blood for the sake of convenience a major part of its platform.
 
NO I DON"T think it’s ok to have an abortion. NO I Don’t think its ok that 45’000 babies have died, but whats bush doing about it he has said that he would not do away with abortion. All he can seem to do is lie. say one thing and then another. I agree with all the Church teaches, ALL of it. We should love one another and spread peace. If I was Called to any war I would be a concousis objector in any situation. Murder is wrong. remember on these situations its up to the person to decide if it would be sinful. and by the way we have tons of bio and chemical agents. anthrax, v-x gas and a multitude of others contact you local army recruiter he will probably brag about the fact… To make my point final i hate sin ALL sin including abortion. I also hate war, poverty, and all others that this president has turned his back to.
 
Catholic democrats,

I recall John F. Kennedy and his stand on many issues, if you read many of his speeches they are in inspiring.

Read his Inaugural speech and compare it to George Bush’s 2nd speech there is a world of difference.
When I did, hypocracy came to mind.

Fogny
 
Ok first off calm down we are just discussing these issues. Second you neglected to name your sources, if you have them I would like to see your sources for the number of pregnent women killed in Iraq (you say 5000), and proof that we have chemical and biological weapons (you say we do and that an army recruiter can tell me, not good enough thats not proof).

You say that murder is wrong, well I agree. You say that you would be a “concousis objector in any situation” I strongly disagree. If the radical muslims were invading the United States would you fight? If the Holy Father were to call another Crusade (unlikely) would you fight? You say under any situation, what if some one invaded you home would you fight to protect your family? In war it is not murder, no more is it when the police get in a gun fight with some druggies and kill them. Can you say that you would never stand up and fight for your God, your Country, or your Family?
 
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Fogny:
Catholic democrats,

I recall John F. Kennedy and his stand on many issues, if you read many of his speeches they are in inspiring.

Read his Inaugural speech and compare it to George Bush’s 2nd speech there is a world of difference.
When I did, hypocracy came to mind.

Fogny
Click to expand...
I don’t know where you are going with this, Fogny…are you saying that JFK was a good Catholic? If thats where you are going you are badly mistaken. Or are you saying that Bush is a bad Catholic? (He isn’t Catholic at all). And really how can you compare a speech from 1958 to a speech in 2005? The issues are totally different, its a different world with different challanges and problems. Thats like comparing a speech from Washington to a speech from Roosevelt, you just can’t do it.
 
just wondering from all the catholic democrats out there since you like to harp on the Iraq war so much which over qualifies as a just war. where were you to complain when clinton went into Kosovo? if you were for him bringing us in to Kosovo, you are guilty of a double standard! shame on you.
 
It was a good speech but it still doesn’t answer my post. If you were so excited about Kennedy for his Catholicness then you must have forgot about his affairs and promiscuity. I am going to say it again, THE WORLD IS A DIFFERENT PLACE 43 YEARS LATTER! This is 2005, we have more problems and more inmoralities to deal with then Kennedy did. People as a whole were still God fearing people then. Europe was not the secular wasteland that it is now. Saddam and Iran were not trying to get nukes and WMD! Different Times differnt Challenges. What are you trying to prove from this speech its still not clear. Please say what you mean.
 
I didn’t agree with kosovo war. And about fighting in a war crusade or what not read what St. Francis of Assisi said about the crusades. We are to be like Christ he gave himself freely to be condemed he didnt fight and neither will I. I love you all, I know everyone has different political views even the Bishops can’t agree sometimes. We need unity and we have unity in the Catholic Church. I’m just stating that you can’t just stand up against one issue they are all important. About the weapons go to the department of defense’s website they have a complete list of all of our stockpiled weapons. Peace be with you.
 
Tyler Smedley:
It was a good speech but it still doesn’t answer my post. If you were so excited about Kennedy for his Catholicness then you must have forgot about his affairs and promiscuity. I am going to say it again, THE WORLD IS A DIFFERENT PLACE 43 YEARS LATTER! This is 2005, we have more problems and more inmoralities to deal with then Kennedy did. People as a whole were still God fearing people then. Europe was not the secular wasteland that it is now. Saddam and Iran were not trying to get nukes and WMD! Different Times differnt Challenges. What are you trying to prove from this speech its still not clear. Please say what you mean.
Click to expand...
What in the world is new.
We still have…
Sin
the occasion of sin
poverty
poor
war
corruption
liars
theives
the rich
I could go on

Fogny
 
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Genesis315:
Politics are always tough. It seems like sometimes I just pick who’s the least bad. This last election was a no-brainer however. Bush was against abortion, stem cell research, cloning, euthanasia, and gay marriage. Kerry was for pretty much all of these things. He even supports abortions on-demand including partial birth abortions. You say 5000 innocent Iraqis have died? 4000 innocent children are slaughtered everyday. That is 1,460,000 per year. Second, The fact that there could be as many as four justices retiring this term means that we could actually see real change.

Catholics were split in the last election because most Catholics today are what are called cafeteria Catholics. They pick and choose what to believe and they put their own opinions over the teachings of the Church. Something like 80% (or more) of Catholics use contraception. That doesn’t make it ok.

Catholics were Democrats back in the day because the Democratic Party did not make killing millions of babies in cold blood for the sake of convenience a major part of its platform.
Click to expand...
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
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