Catholic Heretics and the Death Penalty

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I have no ‘attack’ in mind. I am simply asking what the teachings of Roman Catholicism are on the issue of heresy and whether those teachings have changed.

Seems a fair and reasonable question.
 
robert_newman said:
I have no ‘attack’ in mind. I am simply asking what the teachings of Roman Catholicism are on the issue of heresy and whether those teachings have changed.

Seems a fair and reasonable question.
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Did you locate the catechism? That ought to cover it.
 
A simple question - is the death penalty still able to be given to Catholics who refuse to repent of a heresy ?
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The answer was given you: No. (With source I might add).

You also asked,
The Roman Catholic church has taught, and STILL teaches that obstinate heretics may be put to death. Is this true or not ?
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The answer was given you: It is false.

Your questions have been answered.
 
robert_newman said:
I again seek your clarification.

You seem to be saying that the Roman Catholic Church has not changed its teachings on heresy.

If it has not changed its teachings then, surely, the teachings are the same today as they were at the time of Thomas Aquinas, Granderath or other canon lawyers.

Both of these canon lawyers believed in the death penalty for lapsed heretics. Yes ?
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I think the point the other posters are making is that you may be confusing **infallibly-defined teachings on faith and morals **which cannot change, such as a papal bull addressed to the entire Church which states that it is a divinely-revealed dogma of the faith that Mary was immaculately conceived, or the constant teaching of the Church on the male-only priesthood, with a practice of the Church which has not been a part of its constant history, such as electing to recommend to civil authorities that a heretic be executed, which can be changed. In the case of executing heretics, quite frankly I’m glad it did change. Personally I would be revolted if someone today within the Church advocated burning lapsed Catholics at the stake.
 
The teachings have not changed.

Heresy is still a grave sin. Spiritual penalties including excommunication remain in force.

Where you ‘went wrong’ was in equating the fact that civil authorities (Catholic and Protestant) once enforced the death penalty on heretics along with spiritual penalties, with ‘the Catholic church still teaches that a heretic may be killed.’

And of course that is wrong.

The teaching of heresy as a grave sin has not changed.

Civil penalties (which the Church may have agreed with but did not themselves enforce–in common with the Protestant churches who likewise left enforement to civil authorities) may change.

The teaching against heresy did not.

Do you recall that in 19th century England a man could be executed or sold into indentured slavery for stealing a loaf of bread? Well, we don’t execute people for stealing a loaf of bread–but we still have penalties.

The teaching that ‘stealing is wrong’ still remains. . .
 
Very well, are there sins that heretics commit that are mortal sins punishable by death, according to canon law ?
 
Double-think.

It’s a beautiful thing, isn’t it?

When confronted with the simple fact that the Church was completely okay with the execution of heretics, they just close thier minds and say that it never happened.

Maybe 1984 is already upon us, in the place I, personally, least expected.
 
robert_newman said:
Very well, are there sins that heretics commit that are mortal sins punishable by death, according to canon law ?
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All this might go quicker if you posted a quote with a source.

Canon Law has to do with the internal governance of the Church. Are you talking about the Catechism or anything else that purports to express the teaching authority of the Church.
 
Well Sir, I am trying to get an answer from you to a very straight question.

Are there sins that Roman Catholic heretics may commit which are so grave that they may be punishable under your own canon law by death ?

I will gladly provide you with sources from Rome which say (even in the 20th century) that the death penalty is still in force for Roman Catholic heretics.

Thank You
 
I will gladly quote your own canon lawyers if you need me to. Give me 10 minutes please.

In the meantime, can you please tell me if there are some sins so bad that a Roman Catholic heretic can still be sentenced to death in these modern times by Roman Catholic canon law ?
 
robert_newman said:
I will gladly quote your own canon lawyers if you need me to. Give me 10 minutes please.

In the meantime, can you please tell me if there are some sins so bad that a Roman Catholic heretic can still be sentenced to death in these modern times by Roman Catholic canon law ?
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Don’t quote me lawyers, quote me law.

I have already provided a link to the current code of canon law. Finding the section on heretics is easy.
 
Thank you sending me this information.

So the teaching of Roman Catholicism HAS changed on heretics after all. Is that what you are saying ? They can no longer be sentenced to death. Right ?

I would really appreciate your answer. Either yes or no.
 
Exalt said:
Double-think.

It’s a beautiful thing, isn’t it?

When confronted with the simple fact that the Church was completely okay with the execution of heretics, they just close thier minds and say that it never happened.

Maybe 1984 is already upon us, in the place I, personally, least expected.
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I think you must be reading another thread, for you certainly aren’t reading this one.
 
robert_newman said:
I will gladly quote your own canon lawyers if you need me to. Give me 10 minutes please.

In the meantime, can you please tell me if there are some sins so bad that a Roman Catholic heretic can still be sentenced to death in these modern times by Roman Catholic canon law ?
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No.
 
robert_newman said:
Thank you sending me this information.

So the teaching of Roman Catholicism HAS changed on heretics after all. Is that what you are saying ? They can no longer be sentenced to death. Right ?

I would really appreciate your answer. Either yes or no.
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Now you send me your information. Post the earlier canon law that says heretics can be sentenced to death.

And then, much more importantly, tell me what conclusions you draw.
 
Double-think.
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It’s a beautiful thing, isn’t it?
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When confronted with the simple fact that the Church was completely okay with the execution of heretics, they just close thier minds and say that it never happened.
Click to expand...
Maybe 1984 is already upon us, in the place I, personally, least expected
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You also appear to misunderstand what is taught about heresy, and also about what I said. Never did I say that heretics (Catholic or Protestant, note) were not executed. As for ‘completely okay’ that is your subjective opinion. Have you read the article I referenced? Do you think people take joy in knowing that someone has chosen to condemn himself or herself to damnation?

Let me give you a scenario. Jack the Ripper. This is over 100 years ago. He’s a danger to people- he can kill. And you have no place ‘secure’ (maybe you’re on a deserted island), and maybe also you have lots of little children with you. You also have a fully established civil court which makes legal decisions on that island. They sentence him to death because at that time, that place, they have no other recourse to protect the innocent. They’ve had centuries of legal tradition which has done exactly this. He is, in fact, guilty of a proven crime.

Now, let’s put Jack into a different society; a more ‘industrialized’, safer society of 2006. A secure society where you can protect people from Jack without having him put to death. He is tried, found guilty, and condemned to life in prison, no parole. He is still guilty of a proven crime, but this time, there are decades of legal tradition which support this kind of decision. The circumstances of society have changed; but the crime still remains.

Remember, Jack is still guilty of a crime; a ‘mortal’ crime. That has not changed.

But society’s ability to protect people from that crime has changed.
 
So you are saying that Roman Catholic canon law HAS been changed on death penalty for obstinate heretics ?
 
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