Catholic High School student fights teacher on truth of the Resurrection

[lizaanne]

erm… what is she looking for? Even if the teacher actually did say what she claims, the investigation has caused him to backtrack. And the investigation has put him on notice that his classroom comments are being monitored, so he is highly unlikely to repeat such comments.

What other outcome does she want?

She should want this teacher removed entirely. There is no place in any Catholic teaching position for someone who denies the Resurrection.

~Liza

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

As of now this is a he said/she said situation.

 

[lizaanne]

As of now this is a he said/she said situation.

And what situation isn’t?

There were two students in the class who are making the same claim. So do we not believe them just because they are kids? Wasn’t that one of the issues with the abuse scandal, that people didn’t believe kids, but chose to believe the adult in a position of authority?

~Liza

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

As of now this is a he said/she said situation.

No it isn’t,she has witnesses.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I don’t think it would be appropriate in a public school either.

You forget, of course, that the statements that this teacher allegedly (almost certainly, though) made would have more “wiggle room” in a SECULAR setting.

I DO agree, though, that teachers who make comments like these in a Catholic school have no business being there.
More evidence of the attempted secularization of society at all levels and in all of its institutions.

 

[Phemie]

You like Catholic teachers who deny the truth of the Resurrection? If that is true I sincerely hope you aren’t teaching in any capacity in a Catholic school. Do you consider yourself a Christian?

I think the OP is referring to the student, not the teacher, but I could be wrong.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

And what situation isn’t?

There were two students in the class who are making the same claim. So do we not believe them just because they are kids? Wasn’t that one of the issues with the abuse scandal, that people didn’t believe kids, but chose to believe the adult in a position of authority?

~Liza

Yes. Adults have also looked into this and come to a different conclusion.

And to bring up the abuse situation in this context is beyond disgusting…

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

No it isn’t,she has witnesses.

She has a friend who backs up her story. Wow, I am so impressed. And yet you are completely unimpressed with the adults who have investigated the claim and found it false.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

She has a friend who backs up her story. Wow, I am so impressed. And yet you are completely unimpressed with the adults who have investigated the claim and found it false.

You don’t know the whole story nor do you know that there are more than one witness.The the young woman was upset enough to tell her mom who wrote to the principal and she felt strongly enough to post it on youtube inviting possible censure or expulsion.Adults are not sacrosanct and are quite adept at covering their butts.I find it remarkable that you are so dismissive of a 17 year old girl who had the temerity to defend the pinnacle of our Faith.What on earth would she or her friends have to gain by making this up.I am an adult who has worked in similar situations and I understand the inclination to cover up and wish the situation away.I find your dismissive attitude quite cavalier and unfair to the young woman who has gone to extraordinary lengths to defend her Faith and to demonstrate disgust in the principal for basically saying nothing occurred and ergo calling these girls liars which you also appear to be doing.IS that what you are doing?

 

[JMJSHJ]

I think the OP is referring to the student, not the teacher, but I could be wrong.

The person whom I was replying to said “I like this guy”. Since the only male in this story is the teacher, I reasonably concluded that the poster was referring to the teacher.

 

[Borealis]

For those who may not be aware…in Canada, Catholic schools are run by the government; they haven’t been private since the mid-1980’s. As a result, the quality of education received in Catholic schools has been brought in line with the stellar quality one expects to find in public schools.

As a result, our older son, who is eight, has been to five schools, Catholic and public, all of which treated him like an idiot (one teacher said he would never read, another said the school was going to put him on Ritalin). Now we’ve resorted to sending him to a Christian private school, which is costing us a fortune, but at least he is a) learning, b) being diagnosed and given help for a mild case of autism, and c) actually getting instruction about the Bible, something which did not happen in Catholic school.

I’m going to homeschool the three-year old; I don’t trust the school system at all in this country.

 

[bjmad]

NAB 1 Corinthians 15: 1-21 - Pretty clear to me.

1. Now I am reminding you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you indeed received and in which you also stand.

2 Through it you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures;

4 that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures;

5 that he appeared to Kephas, then to the Twelve.

6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

7 After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

8 Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me has not been ineffective. Indeed, I have toiled harder than all of them; not I, however, but the grace of God (that is) with me.

11 Therefore, whether it be I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

12 But if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised.

14 And if Christ has not been raised, then empty (too) is our preaching; empty, too, your faith.

15 Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised.

16 For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised,

17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.

18 Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiable people of all.

20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being.

Praise Jesus Christ who has been resurrected.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

You don’t know the whole story nor do you know that there are more than one witness.

For starters, unless you were in the classroom then neither do you know the whole story. Secondly, how would I know that there is more than one witness when the article linked only mentions one other witness who is also a friend? Am I supposed to assume something that is never mentioned in the article?

Adults are not sacrosanct and are quite adept at covering their butts.

Adults are not sacrosanct. That’s why an investigation was launched. The investigation cleared the teacher. Without any other evidence I don’t see a reason to believe this wasn’t just a big misunderstanding.

I find it remarkable that you are so dismissive of a 17 year old girl who had the temerity to defend the pinnacle of our Faith.What on earth would she or her friends have to gain by making this up.

You are assuming she is defending her faith instead of simply misunderstanding what he said or in more extreme possibilities (and I think unlikely scenarios) executing a grudge against the teacher/school.
And can I ask where there’s any evidence someone beyond the one friend mentioned in the article backs up what she’s claiming?

I find your dismissive attitude quite cavalier and unfair to the young woman who has gone to extraordinary lengths to defend her Faith and to demonstrate disgust in the principal for basically saying nothing occurred and ergo calling these girls liars which you also appear to be doing.IS that what you are doing?

I didn’t say she was a liar. I have sat in many theological discussions/lectures/class/workshops/etc. where one or more audience members completely misunderstand what the speaker/professor is actually saying. And the usual result is the Q&A part ends up being filled with accusatory questions that cause the professor/speaker to have to explain that he/she never said that.

Like I originally posted, there is no way to know for sure the teacher actually said what he’s accused of saying. There’s also no evidence the girls are lying. And there’s no evidence the school is covering anything up.

I never called the girl a liar, however many posts here are far less charitable towards the teacher/school.

 

[lizaanne]

Yes. Adults have also looked into this and come to a different conclusion.

And to bring up the abuse situation in this context is beyond disgusting…

Oh really? And you think that those kids who were also dismissed because of their age would not see a parallel on that point alone?

I find it equally disgusting that someone would spew heresy at young people as if it were the truth, abuse their position of authority to do so, and then when those very young people cry for help, they are dismissed as “he said/she said”.

They might be lying - but they must be heard.

~Liza

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Oh really? And you think that those kids who were also dismissed because of their age would not see a parallel on that point alone?

Not the same thing at all. And I stand by my statement that comparing a dispute about a theological statement to child sex abuse is beyond disgusting and I won’t address it again in this thread.

I find it equally disgusting that someone would spew heresy at young people as if it were the truth, abuse their position of authority to do so, and then when those very young people cry for help, they are dismissed as “he said/she said”.

It is a he said/she said.

They might be lying - but they must be heard.

They were heard, there was an investigation, and the teacher was cleared. Anything else is mere rumor, conjecture, or assumptions…

 

[Phemie]

I watched the video on youtube. I’d love to have a professional interrogator watch it and see what he/she thinks. In some spots she seemed to be making it up as she went.

On the other hand, I’d still like to know what the chaplain meant by
" The teacher’s “beliefs and program delivery are in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church that reviewed MANY BELIEFS and practices under Vatican II,” he wrote.

 

[lizaanne]

Not the same thing at all. And I stand by my statement that comparing a dispute about a theological statement to child sex abuse is beyond disgusting and I won’t address it again in this thread.

I NEVER compared those two aspects of this situation. Only that children were not being believed. That’s all.

Agreed - nothing else here to be said.

~Liza

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

I watched the video on youtube. I’d love to have a professional interrogator watch it and see what he/she thinks. In some spots she seemed to be making it up as she went.

On the other hand, I’d still like to know what the chaplain meant by
" The teacher’s “beliefs and program delivery are in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church that reviewed MANY BELIEFS and practices under Vatican II,” he wrote.

As to your first partagraph-do you work for CSI?

Most 17 year olds tend to be scattered and she was obviously not working from a script.

" The teacher’s “beliefs and program delivery are in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church that reviewed MANY BELIEFS and practices under Vatican II,” he wrote.This statement alone should set off alarm bells-no BELIEFS were reviewed under V2.And to put that in WRITING warrants a good grilling.

Placing “crosses” in classrooms just prior to Easter instead of having permanently affixed crucifix,s in each classroom gives one a good indication as to how “Catholic” this school is.

Something tells me this story ain’t over yet as I’m sure mom has contacted the Catholic School Board and the Bishop.

Thirdly why would anyone make up a story like that and be backed up by a classmate?Revenge?Much easier to say “he touched my breast”.I find it quite believable and it warrants further investigation and report rather than the principals very ODD dismissive letter wherein he reveals he understands zip about V2.

 

[JimG]

I don’t know if the teacher denied the resurrection or not. But it is certainly possible in a classroom that students may misunderstand a teacher’s words. During my first year in a Catholic college I was taking a first year theology course taught by a local priest. One day he came in to class quite upset. He had been called into the bishop’s office because the parent of a student had reported that he was teaching heretical doctrine. The name of the accuser was not revealed to him. He said that if anyone thought he was teaching heresy, at least have the courtesy to accompany him to the bishop’s office so he could hear exactly what the student thought he had heard.

I was amazed, because this was one of the most theologically orthodox, even theologically conservative, teachers at the school. I had attended every class, and not one word that he said was questionable. He did speak in a theologically and philosophically precise manner, and I had to conclude that somebody had either not understood or was not following along.

So I’m just saying that misunderstanding is a possibility.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

I don’t know if the teacher denied the resurrection or not. But it is certainly possible in a classroom that students may misunderstand a teacher’s words. During my first year in a Catholic college I was taking a first year theology course taught by a local priest. One day he came in to class quite upset. He had been called into the bishop’s office because the parent of a student had reported that he was teaching heretical doctrine. The name of the accuser was not revealed to him. He said that if anyone thought he was teaching heresy, at least have the courtesy to accompany him to the bishop’s office so he could hear exactly what the student thought he had heard.

I was amazed, because this was one of the most theologically orthodox, even theologically conservative, teachers at the school. I had attended every class, and not one word that he said was questionable. He did speak in a theologically and philosophically precise manner, and I had to conclude that somebody had either not understood or was not following along.

So I’m just saying that misunderstanding is a possibility.

It bears further investigation especially when a student asked him to clarify his remarks and he apparently did in front of a witness.I think the best possible result would be for the teacher to stand in front of the class and say.“for the record,I DO believe in the Resurrection,I am sorry if some of you misunderstood”.Case closed.

Why the reluctance?.If I was misinterpreted by young people on matters of core belief of Catholicism IN A CATHOLIC SCHOOL I would ensure that I corrected their mishaprehension ASAP,publicly to my class lest some poorly catechised student(80%) was lead astray.