Catholic HS vice principal resignation triggering ongoing protest

[aidanbradypop]

Good job students!

 

[HappyCatholic01]

VanSensei:

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanSensei

And then this happened. Confident, that’s all I have to say about it.

For those of you who’d care not to read the link, it’s a petition trying to get the USCCB to change the Church’s stance on marriage. Again, very confident.

What a bunch of ignorant babies. My parents would have had me locked up and grounded for years if I had been that arrogant and stupid when I was a teenager. Like I said, teenagers are some of the lease likeable people on the entire planet.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Coatimundi]

My guess is that he spread a pro gay, anti Church agenda throughout his tenure at that school. He indoctrinated those kids.

One of the organizers of the student protest said they had no idea VP Zmuda was gay until he was fired.

*Senior Christian Leider, 18, said he found out on Twitter.

“The students were pretty upset about that so we all came together and rebelled against it,” he said. “Once one person found out it went on Twitter and then everyone found out.”

He and others started rounding up students for a sit-in at the school commons area around 9 a.m.

He said the students then hiked outside to the turnoff for the street that winds up a hill to the campus to show their support for Zmuda to the media gathered there.

“We did not know he was gay before today,” Leider said. “He’s always looking out for the best in everyone and he always wants everyone to do their best.” *
seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022494004_gayprincipalprotestxml.html

The incident is unfortunate. I wonder if it could have been avoided if enforcement of the faith and morals clause of teacher contracts was better known. Zmuda got married over the summer, which should have given him time to find other employment. Ideally, he should have understood that his marriage would lead to being fired by the school, and thus not started the school year there. I do not know if enforcement of the “faith and morals clause” is new or if past enforcement was simply been done quietly. However, a wave of such enforcements seem to have occurred during the last couple years, and when they happen it seems to genuinely surprise people.

As enforcement becomes better known, or more consistent, I think we will see less and less controversy over such firings.Teachers and staff will know what to expect, and plan accordingly. Students, parents and the public will understand that this is simply part of what sets Catholic education apart from public education. Catholic schools exist to help students grow in faith and establish values which will guide them in life.

BTW, according to the school’s website, only 60% of the students are Catholic. That may have something to do with the student reaction. The school has 900 students, so 300 is a sizable percentage, but twice as many students did not participate in the protest

 

[rfournier103]

…we are also supposed to love the sinner. And we’re supposed to encourage everyone to come to God, right?

Yes. However, isn’t it the sinner’s resposibility to at least TRY to live according to God’s will, and the laws passed on to us by Sacred Scripture??? Come to God!!! AND ACCEPT HIS WILL.

Well, by firing beloved school staff what message are we sending and how will the next generation feel about Catholicism? The staff fired will always be upset at the Church and much less likely to come around and the kids who see this happen will resent the Church, the teachings of the Church, and be less likely to stay Catholic or to convert in the case of non-Catholics who attend. Not to mention the whole thing might leave a bad taste in the mouths of parents who were considering sending their kids to a Catholic school.

A sticky situation to be sure. It may be safe to say that it’s a bad PR hit, BUT we as Christians have a responsibility- nay, a DUTY to be STRONG in our teachings of RIGHT AND WRONG. We dwell in a cesspool of moral relativism that has absolutely no concept of right and wrong; and certainly no concept of Christian values.

If we truly loved the sinner would we fire him or her or should we let them continue working, gently try to lead them away from their sin, and show by example what it means to be loving and compassionate? Literally a life lesson. Some people commit grave sin and we are called to love those people and to try to help them reach God.

I realize someone is going to scream “What about the example being set by the teacher/Vice Principle, whatever?” The love the sinner despite their sin concept is pretty easy to explain. And showing youth who might be homosexual that the Catholic Church is there for them, cares about them, and wants to help them is a darn sight better than sending the message that the only community who will welcome them is the secular one.

So how do we do that without condoning the sin? I’m sorry, but it doesn’t look good no matter how you slice it. He did something wrong, refuses to change, and now we have a Mexican standoff here. Are you saying the Church should blink first?

well the termination of the contract before the Christmas break is terrible PR

Maybe a better time could have been chosen, but the result would have to be the same. This man could not be left in his position. Period. We can love the sinner, and try to help him, but we cannot condone it. I think he would have to renounce his ‘lifestyle’ if he wanted his job back.

I presume that it would also violate school policy for a teacher or administrator to be cohabiting without marriage, to be practicing open adultery, to be practicing polygamy, or any number of other things. I suppose that if he were otherwise a good employee the students would also object to his resignation on any of those morals grounds.

But it’s a contract violation. It’s also the definition of giving scandal. A Catholic school can teach morality, but the students are thinking, well, that must really be okay because, after all, my teacher is doing it, and it’s not a problem.”

Do the students—and their parents—want to be Catholic or not?

Agreed. He WILLINGLY signed the contract.

Another thought on this subject…this “beloved” and popular vice principle (who held the teachings of the Church is such low esteem) was gay.

I wonder how much influence he had on the students…

I wonder how much influence he had on the teachers and their curriculum.

Apparently a lot… to cause such a fuss. My guess is that he spread a pro gay, anti Church agenda throughout his tenure at that school. He indoctrinated those kids.

Where was the archdiocese all this time? They hired this guy.

I am getting really fed up with this stuff. The U.S. senate just voted for a gay rights bill.
Homosexuals now have the right to sue an employer any time he doesn’t hire or promote them, or any time he fires them.

These laws and privileges are not granted to others, especially Christians. They are designed to be used against Christians.

So this vice principle will probably win a hefty law suit against the Church.

The only way Catholic schools will be able to avoid being sued is to find a secret way to not hire homosexuals, or to always promote them and never fire them. Otherwise, they will have to embrace legal costs.

This is very much like “affirmative action”. Lesser qualified people get hired and promoted over more qualified applicants all the time. It is one of the MANY things dragging the U.S. down (don’t have time or space to list them all). Do you think China, Japan, and Germany cater to lesser qualified persons; or go with the best and brightest? The whole notion of appeasing the few at the expense of all will be our downfall.

Well, I would hope that contract clauses can be enforced. Catholic schools ought to hire practicing Catholics as teachers and administrators, and have an enforceable morals clause. After all, the Church requires a Baptismal sponsor to be a practicing Catholic, with a letter of recommendation from their pastor.

I don’t see why we should put Catholic young people at risk by putting them under the jurisdiction and authority of those who do not believe in or practice the Faith.

Agreed.

We shouldn’t completely blame the kids for being ignorant about their faith when the diocese, in part via the school, bears some responsibility in educating them about their faith.

How about their parents? Bad parenting is a scourge growing larger every day. Maybe their parents should get more involved in raising their children, rather than letting school raise them?

 

[RPRPsych]

Aye.

Bringing charges for disturbance of the peace and disorderly conduct certainly wouldn’t be a bad idea in my opinion. Little cretins…

As the French would say, on n’attrape pas les mouches avec du vinaigre.

 

[pensmama87]

How about their parents? Bad parenting is a scourge growing larger every day. Maybe their parents should get more involved in raising their children, rather than letting school raise them?

If one of those were my kids, there would be a LOT of big changes at home, because clearly I was missing on something big as far as teaching my children the faith.

 

[RPRPsych]

Teenagers are the worst. Way more arrogance than any man should have, and half the brains a man needs.

I’m as opposed to gay marriage as the next orthodox Catholic, but some people clearly have forgotten their own teenage years. While blatant indiscipline cannot be condoned, sweeping statements like this one reveal unpleasant truths about those making them.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Vatican: Catholic Schools must have a ‘Catholic identity’

youtube.com/watch?v=TjJM0eADi-I

 

[Corki]

I agree with Ridgerunner.

Firstly, most of the 300 students, with or without parental backing, would be so concerned about future college placement that they would “fold” overnight.

Secondly, There is a waiting list for every Catholic high School that I know of. Once it is established that this is a “strict” school with strong Catholic Christian values…every lost seat would be filled by next semester. Most likely with non-Catholics who appreciate the value of a good education.

I would also bet that out of that 300, if they all went home and told mommy and daddy that they wanted to leave the school, 250 of them would be back and begging for make up work to keep their GPAs up.

 

[ishii]

Folks, this is a “catholic” high school in the east side of seattle - one of the most liberal diocese in the country. It’s not exactly the Archdiocese of Nebraska. Most of these kids are rich kids whose parents probably voted for Obama. The sad thing is other catholic high school kids at schools with a stronger catholic identity are wanting to join the protests. The gay agenda has permeated the Catholic Church in this area. Even parents who are trying to teach their kids the right values have to fight an uphill battle. That’s expected from our secular culture but I wouldn’t expect it coming from our Church.

Ishii

 

[Coatimundi]

Even parents who are trying to teach their kids the right values have to fight an uphill battle. That’s expected from our secular culture but I wouldn’t expect it coming from our Church.

Isn’t this case about the pushback against secular values? Isn’t the pushback coming from a Catholic school and Catholic archdiocese?

 

[Thrice89]

And all those kids need to be expelled.

These kids should not be protesting. This Catholic school had every right to fire this man for “marrying” another man. These kids ought to be supporting the school in their efforts to uphold true moral values.

Aye.

Bringing charges for disturbance of the peace and disorderly conduct certainly wouldn’t be a bad idea in my opinion. Little cretins…

I’m saddened when I see comments such as these; they’re overzealous and stated under the guise of “Christian love” but in reality are anything but – and are unfortunately all too common. It’s cultish behavior calling for the expulsion of people who didn’t act according to your expectations (at the end of the day, they answer to God, not to you, and any deviations in teachings is to be dealt with by their Priests).

I wish more Catholics – on these fora and in real life – would ask themselves if what they’re about to say is something that Jesus would say or condone. I feel confident in stating that the above posts wouldn’t be. Is that the image we want to portray? Because I’m sure others are turned off by these snide comments when they see them, and if we lose someone who was considering joining the Church or is an “on the fringe” Catholic, it’s a tragedy. There’s absolutely a place for loving correction and protecting our Church, but to say that a group of students should be expelled, charged with a crime and shouldn’t exercise their Constitutional rights (which equates to telling them that they just need to stay in their place, do as they’re told and not think), is abhorrent and Pharisean in nature. They need to be taught, not ostracized and condemned.

I’m obviously not perfect, but I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect, even if I disagree with what they’re doing. It’s time we stop making snotty remarks and “talk the talk and walk the walk” and show the world what true Christian love is, instead of demeaning a group of kids and those who think or believe differently. What we have is Beautiful; let’s not tarnish it.

 

[Havard]

I’m saddened when I see comments such as these; they’re overzealous and stated under the guise of “Christian love” but in reality are anything but – and are unfortunately all too common. It’s cultish behavior calling for the expulsion of people who didn’t act according to your expectations (at the end of the day, they answer to God, not to you, and any deviations in teachings is to be dealt with by their Priests).

I wish more Catholics – on these fora and in real life – would ask themselves if what they’re about to say is something that Jesus would say or condone. I feel confident in stating that the above posts wouldn’t be. Is that the image we want to portray? Because I’m sure others are turned off by these snide comments when they see them, and if we lose someone who was considering joining the Church or is an “on the fringe” Catholic, it’s a tragedy. There’s absolutely a place for loving correction and protecting our Church, but to say that a group of students should be expelled, charged with a crime and shouldn’t exercise their Constitutional rights (which equates to telling them that they just need to stay in their place, do as they’re told and not think), is abhorrent and Pharisean in nature. They need to be taught, not ostracized and condemned.

I’m obviously not perfect, but I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect, even if I disagree with what they’re doing. It’s time we stop making snotty remarks and “talk the talk and walk the walk” and show the world what true Christian love is, instead of demeaning a group of kids and those who think or believe differently. What we have is Beautiful; let’s not tarnish it.

Take heart. The Church is a hospital for sinners. Everyone here, as in real life, are wounded, and are not always as patient or loving as we could be. Yet another good reason to pray for each other!

 

[ishii]

Isn’t this case about the pushback against secular values? Isn’t the pushback coming from a Catholic school and Catholic archdiocese?

It depends on your perspective. Who is doing the pushback? Is it the Catholic Church who after all is merely enforcing a standard that has always been in place? Or is it the students of the Catholic school who are pushing back against the moral standard and teaching of the Church?

One other comment: many students at these schools are not Catholic, and/or not really practicing Catholics. Therefore its possible that many of those protesting and rejecting the authority and teaching of the Church are among this group. I can imagine that a Catholic high school like Eastside Catholic would be wary of alienating its non-Catholic students and parents. Also, they probably don’t want to alienate their “catholic-lite” students and parents as well. I think in some ways these institutions are somewhat permeated with secular types - even among the Catholics. The teachers and admin are generally quite liberal and don’t really agree with Catholic teaching. I suppose “rotten to the core” is a harsh word. But in many ways, to the extent that non-Christian secular values hold sway at these institutions, it is indeed rotten to the core.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I’m saddened when I see comments such as these; they’re overzealous and stated under the guise of “Christian love” but in reality are anything but – and are unfortunately all too common. It’s cultish behavior calling for the expulsion of people who didn’t act according to your expectations (at the end of the day, they answer to God, not to you, and any deviations in teachings is to be dealt with by their Priests).

I wish more Catholics – on these fora and in real life – would ask themselves if what they’re about to say is something that Jesus would say or condone. I feel confident in stating that the above posts wouldn’t be. Is that the image we want to portray? Because I’m sure others are turned off by these snide comments when they see them, and if we lose someone who was considering joining the Church or is an “on the fringe” Catholic, it’s a tragedy. There’s absolutely a place for loving correction and protecting our Church, but to say that a group of students should be expelled, charged with a crime and shouldn’t exercise their Constitutional rights (which equates to telling them that they just need to stay in their place, do as they’re told and not think), is abhorrent and Pharisean in nature. They need to be taught, not ostracized and condemned.

I’m obviously not perfect, but I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect, even if I disagree with what they’re doing. It’s time we stop making snotty remarks and “talk the talk and walk the walk” and show the world what true Christian love is, instead of demeaning a group of kids and those who think or believe differently. What we have is Beautiful; let’s not tarnish it.

I think you are confusing public activity and what is done privately. While I understand that you mean well, I think your comments betray a relativism that is what is wrong with our society and much of the American church now. It is the idea that anyone can do whatever they feel like because after all, “we are all sinners.” Does that mean you throw all standards out the window? If Catholic teaching changed according to the whims of every age, we would have no Church. The archdiocese has every right to require a moral standard for teachers in their public lives and enforce it. And the kids who are protesting are the products of the worst kind of liberal, relativistic moral confusion. Christian love does not condone public sin.

Ishii

 

[pnewton]

I’m as opposed to gay marriage as the next orthodox Catholic, but some people clearly have forgotten their own teenage years. While blatant indiscipline cannot be condoned, sweeping statements like this one reveal unpleasant truths about those making them.

That’s kind of what I was thinking. This is teenagers being rebellious teenagers. Let them have their little demonstrations and ignore them. Although, I definitely think there needs to be catechesis on the subject. Maybe reading all the way through The Theology of the Body and writing extensive essays on the topic would be in order.

 

[JDeL]

I’m saddened when I see comments such as these; they’re overzealous and stated under the guise of “Christian love” but in reality are anything but – and are unfortunately all too common. It’s cultish behavior calling for the expulsion of people who didn’t act according to your expectations (at the end of the day, they answer to God, not to you, and any deviations in teachings is to be dealt with by their Priests).

I wish more Catholics – on these fora and in real life – would ask themselves if what they’re about to say is something that Jesus would say or condone. I feel confident in stating that the above posts wouldn’t be. Is that the image we want to portray? Because I’m sure others are turned off by these snide comments when they see them, and if we lose someone who was considering joining the Church or is an “on the fringe” Catholic, it’s a tragedy. There’s absolutely a place for loving correction and protecting our Church, but to say that a group of students should be expelled, charged with a crime and shouldn’t exercise their Constitutional rights (which equates to telling them that they just need to stay in their place, do as they’re told and not think), is abhorrent and Pharisean in nature. They need to be taught, not ostracized and condemned.

I’m obviously not perfect, but I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect, even if I disagree with what they’re doing. It’s time we stop making snotty remarks and “talk the talk and walk the walk” and show the world what true Christian love is, instead of demeaning a group of kids and those who think or believe differently. What we have is Beautiful; let’s not tarnish it.

Thrice and others,

As a Catholic school teacher, the most loving thing I can do it tell the students the truth. If I have a student who disagrees/dissents from church teaching, I would do the following: speak to the them privately and try to figure out where they are coming from. From thence, I will allow the Holy Spirit to give me the words to teach them the Truth in charity. If they reject the Holy Spirit in me and in the church, I would go to their parents to discuss further.

However, if they decide to make public their dissent from the church teaching, then naturally and logically, they should expect a public communication, and thus discussion and admonishment even on an internet forum is completely just and an act of mercy. Name-calling and generalizing, however, should be avoided, I agree,

My parish priest has told me NOT to meet them where they are at and NOT to accept their sins. We must hate their sins as we meet them where God is at, leading them to His infinite mercy through the sacrament of Confession. We must love them, but never confirm them in their sins or say it is just a phase.

Further, all involved in this both parents and HS students need to know what they are doing: dissent and heresy, and they need to know the punishments are automatic ex-communication if they reject church teaching with knowledge (provided they are 16 per canon law). This must be done with charity by competent church authority in addition to the school.

The universal church needs to pray that the wrath of God not completely destroy human civilization and that this crisis of catechesis will soon end with a return to orthodoxy practice of the Catholic Faith.

 

[zab]

One of the organizers of the student protest said they had no idea VP Zmuda was gay until he was fired.

Senior Christian Leider, 18, said he found out on Twitter.

“The students were pretty upset about that so we all came together and rebelled against it,” he said. “Once one person found out it went on Twitter and then everyone found out.”

He and others started rounding up students for a sit-in at the school commons area around 9 a.m.

He said the students then hiked outside to the turnoff for the street that winds up a hill to the campus to show their support for Zmuda to the media gathered there.

*“We did not know he was gay before today,” Leider said. “He’s always looking out for the best in everyone and he always wants everyone to do their best.” *
seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022494004_gayprincipalprotestxml.html

The incident is unfortunate. I wonder if it could have been avoided if enforcement of the faith and morals clause of teacher contracts was better known. Zmuda got married over the summer, which should have given him time to find other employment. Ideally, he should have understood that his marriage would lead to being fired by the school, and thus not started the school year there. I do not know if enforcement of the “faith and morals clause” is new or if past enforcement was simply been done quietly. However, a wave of such enforcements seem to have occurred during the last couple years, and when they happen it seems to genuinely surprise people.

As enforcement becomes better known, or more consistent, I think we will see less and less controversy over such firings.Teachers and staff will know what to expect, and plan accordingly. Students, parents and the public will understand that this is simply part of what sets Catholic education apart from public education. Catholic schools exist to help students grow in faith and establish values which will guide them in life.

BTW, according to the school’s website, only 60% of the students are Catholic. That may have something to do with the student reaction. The school has 900 students, so 300 is a sizable percentage, but twice as many students did not participate in the protest

I am glad to be reminded that twice as many students did not participate in the protest. But I am still disappointed that faculty have expressed pride in the protest of the students. According to a KING News report, " Faculty said they are proud of the students for expressing themselves, but aren’t allowed to comment on the matter." king5.com/news/local/Students-Vice-Principal-fired-over-gay-wedding-236597321.html

 

[RPRPsych]

That’s kind of what I was thinking. This is teenagers being rebellious teenagers. Let them have their little demonstrations and ignore them. Although, I definitely think there needs to be catechesis on the subject. Maybe reading all the way through The Theology of the Body and writing extensive essays on the topic would be in order.

Exactly.

The root of these problems, as some posters have already said, begins at home. It’s up to those who are older and wiser to provide the right mixture of restraint, tolerance, and discipline.

And adolescence is naturally a period of rebellion, where one can easily get “swept up” into things that would make one cringe later in life.

The best parents, catechists and mentors understand this. If St. John Bosco had gone around calling every rebellious kid “a little cretin”, he wouldn’t have gotten very far.

 

[Coatimundi]

According to a KING News report, " Faculty said they are proud of the students for expressing themselves, but aren’t allowed to comment on the matter." king5.com/news/local/Students-Vice-Principal-fired-over-gay-wedding-236597321.html

Yes, that statement left me wondering whether the teachers were supportive of the viewpoint of the students, or whether the teachers were glad to see some fire in their students? The students who joined in the protest were taking concrete actions to try to create change. The students didn’t take the lazy, and empty, path of online complaining. Social media can be useful as an organizing tool, but, ultimately, if people don’t get off their butts and take actual action, no change will come.

The students who took part in the protest put their bodies where their mouths had already gone. I hope that is what the teachers were praising. Certainly the students are ill-informed and taking a non-Catholic position. But the protest can be turned into a teaching opportunity: not only to explore Catholic teaching but also that standing up for one’s values requires more than signing an online petition or making some angry Facebook comments. Then examples from history of successful protests, the change that came from them, and how the change was created.

At this point, I think the student protest is effectively over. Very few will be interested in sacrificing their Christmas, especially if it requires an outdoor protest day after day. By the time the school year starts again, the issue will seem both stale and a done deal. Some students may continue to grumble, but even that will fade with time.