But the statement has been made. Authority comes from the consent of the governed. If the students refuse to give in, as my class and I once did in a public school circa 1973, some point of compromise will have to be reached.At this point, I think the student protest is effectively over. Very few will be interested in sacrificing their Christmas, especially if it requires an outdoor protest day after day. By the time the school year starts again, the issue will seem both stale and a done deal. Some students may continue to grumble, but even that will fade with time.
Beating teenagers isn’t a very good way to get them to agree with you.If I were studying at this school and I came back home and said, dad, today we staged a sit-in in the gym protesting the resignation of Mr Z because he married a man, I would have been given a slap so huge that the hand mark would remain permanent.
You cannot be one of the parents of those 300 kids and be content with your child coming back from school, having done NOTHING except sit in the gym, protesting about things that they have absolutely no idea about.
Nowadays we aren’t tough enough on children. And gosh, with all due respect, I don’t want to raise my children in an anything-goes culture like the one I see there because it’s dangerous. If we did that in the Catholic school I went to, we would have been suspended for 2 weeks, each of us returns to school with a parent, and after writing a grovelling apology letter you get hard manual labour. Plus mandatory Catechism classes. The Principal of that college should not accept such tomfoolery.
Yes I agree, but I never suggested so.Beating teenagers isn’t a very good way to get them to agree with you.
I am not sue that the students will behave any different than adults would in a similar situation.If the students refuse to give in, as my class and I once did in a public school circa 1973, some point of compromise will have to be reached.
Did I catch some grief…sure. Change is difficult, even painful or deadly.But the notion I’ve been hearing that our young people…nearly legal adults will just fold, I hope is not true.
I think this pretty much captures the problem the school faces: it’s a Catholic school where the students effectively haven’t been taught Catholic doctrine therefore they can’t accept the actions of the school when acting in accordance with that doctrine. This protest is really no surprise. Since Humanae Vitae came out in 1968 - and was largely ignored - the church hasn’t acted as if her doctrines were any more than suggestions so people are naturally caught off guard when someone acts as if he actually believes what the church teaches and takes her doctrines as binding. I’d say we have a teaching moment here and it will be quite interesting to see how this plays out.If a popular co-worker was fired, unjustly in the eyes of many…
Way to make a sweeping generalization and dismiss “the church” (it’s “Church”). On what is this statement based? When did the Church downgrade her own doctrines to suggestions? The disobedience of people does not nullify the truth of the Church’s teachings. If I decide to use contraception (God forbid!) it’s because I disobeyed, not because “the church” didn’t act the right way.Since Humanae Vitae came out in 1968 - and was largely ignored - the church hasn’t acted as if her doctrines were any more than suggestions
Would a teacher be fired for public cohabitation? I would certainly hope so. How can a Catholic school uphold morality while allowing its teachers to publicly renounce those same moral standards? Their actions refute the teachings, and acquiescence by the school means that the school has no problem with teaching immorality through action. That’s the definition of scandal. It leads others into sin and error.When I was a student at a Catholic high school, I would have stood in front of a train before I let the school fire a good teacher because he or she was openly gay. This was not because I thought homosexuality was morally permissible. It was because I cared about people more than policies, and I thought the administration of the school was run by a bunch of Pharisaical fatheads.
I think the students at the school could have a point here, in their protests. I mean, consider: would a teacher at the school be fired for living in sin with a person of the opposite sex? If not, then this is a case of discrimination. We cannot *selectively *legislate morality.
(Mind you, I don’t question the school’s legal right to discriminate, just its moral right to do so.)
We actually had something similar happen at our school several years ago. We had two young and favorite teachers of the students, a male and a female, who fell in love and were dating. There were not living together as far as anyone knew. But the female ended up getting pregnant. The male teacher had already left the school for a teaching job in the public school system. But the female was let go when it became known that she was pregnant but not married.Would a teacher be fired for public cohabitation? I would certainly hope so. How can a Catholic school uphold morality while allowing its teachers to publicly renounce those same moral standards? Their actions refute the teachings, and acquiescence by the school means that the school has no problem with teaching immorality through action. That’s the definition of scandal. It leads others into sin and error.
The school is lucky she didn’t fight it in court. A Catholic school in Ohio fired a teacher for using in vitro fertilization, however she argued that she was fired for being a single mother. The jury agreed with her and declared that the archdiocese should pay a total of $71,000 for back pay and compensatory damages and $100,000 in punitive damages.But the female was let go when it became known that she was pregnant but not married.
Calm down. the Church in America (or at least many in the clergy) have been re-miss in promoting and teaching the Catholic faith and catholic moral teaching. I grew up going to catholic schools - for 12 years - and was taught mostly mush or worse. Just to give you an idea - . in my high school religion class, a (lay) teacher informed us that there is no devil and would mock the real presence. This was during the 80’s in the diocese of Seattle (surprise, surprise). There was no accountability. And it is my generation that are the parents of the children attending high school now and many who are in positions of leadership in the Catholic schools! As well as teachers. For many who grew up in this atmosphere of mush, the “Catholic moral teaching” that is emphasized is the liberal, social justice issues. Abortion is hardly mentioned, and defense of traditional marriage is never mentioned.Way to make a sweeping generalization and dismiss “the church” (it’s “Church”). On what is this statement based? When did the Church downgrade her own doctrines to suggestions? The disobedience of people does not nullify the truth of the Church’s teachings. If I decide to use contraception (God forbid!) it’s because I disobeyed, not because “the church” didn’t act the right way.
And people wonder why we’re losing ground to Protestants, Muslims and liberals. With friends like this, who needs enemies?
Give it time. I think that in the not too distant future, the Church will be persecuted for defending its beliefs and standards.The school is lucky she didn’t fight it in court. A Catholic school in Ohio fired a teacher for using in vitro fertilization, however she argued that she was fired for being a single mother. The jury agreed with her and declared that the archdiocese should pay a total of $71,000 for back pay and compensatory damages and $100,000 in punitive damages.
foxnews.com/us/2013/06/03/jury-archdiocese-wrong-to-fire-ohio-teacher-who-got-pregnant-via-artificial/#ixzz2VBucWNlR
But (i’m playing devil’s advocate here, I think the teacher should be fired for marrying a man. Now if he kept himself in the closet or kept his relationship private then yeah I don’t think he should be fired, anyway) there are plenty of teacher I know who have had affairs or cohabited at my Catholic school who were seen as okay. And this is in red state small town America, not Seattle or California. Sadly I think Homosexuality gets more of the bad rap compared to just plain fornicating. I mean if a student was gay, they get bullied. If a student was sleeping around with the opposite gender, then they are popularWould a teacher be fired for public cohabitation? I would certainly hope so. How can a Catholic school uphold morality while allowing its teachers to publicly renounce those same moral standards? Their actions refute the teachings, and acquiescence by the school means that the school has no problem with teaching immorality through action. That’s the definition of scandal. It leads others into sin and error.
So you hope they will not fold in their effort to “change Catholic teaching” on gay marriage? On what other Catholic teaching would you be okay with students working to subvert?But the statement has been made. Authority comes from the consent of the governed. If the students refuse to give in, as my class and I once did in a public school circa 1973, some point of compromise will have to be reached.
Did I catch some grief…sure. Change is difficult, even painful or deadly.But the notion I’ve been hearing that our young people…nearly legal adults will just fold, I hope is not true.
If it is…
That is a valid point. To a certain extent, heterosexual “sleeping around” is accepted. I think it depends on the school. I know of an archdiocese school in which if it became known that a heterosexual teacher was co-habitating, I’m pretty sure the pastor would have fired the teacher. An openly gay teacher or staff wouldn’t have been considered for employment.But (i’m playing devil’s advocate here, I think the teacher should be fired for marrying a man. Now if he kept himself in the closet or kept his relationship private then yeah I don’t think he should be fired, anyway) there are plenty of teacher I know who have had affairs or cohabited at my Catholic school who were seen as okay. And this is in red state small town America, not Seattle or California. Sadly I think Homosexuality gets more of the bad rap compared to just plain fornicating. I mean if a student was gay, they get bullied. If a student was sleeping around with the opposite gender, then they are popular
I think you have to distinguish between what is rumor and what is known It is another thing if the teacher is openly talking about their immoral relationship, no matter it be heterosexual or homosexual or the teacher has expressed beliefs to their students that are contrary to Catholic teaching and because of their status they could sway the students to go against Church teaching. How is homosexuality getting a bad rap in this case? Apparently it wasn’t a problem for Mr. Z teaching at the Catholic school until he got married. I don’t know what the faculty or the school principal knew about his private relationship but reports from some of the students said that they did not even know that he was gay.But (i’m playing devil’s advocate here, I think the teacher should be fired for marrying a man. Now if he kept himself in the closet or kept his relationship private then yeah I don’t think he should be fired, anyway) there are plenty of teacher I know who have had affairs or cohabited at my Catholic school who were seen as okay. And this is in red state small town America, not Seattle or California. Sadly I think Homosexuality gets more of the bad rap compared to just plain fornicating. I mean if a student was gay, they get bullied. If a student was sleeping around with the opposite gender, then they are popular
I’m certainly in favor of private sin remaining private. There is no general requirement for teachers and administrators to publicly confess all their sins. If so, nobody’s job would be safe. It is rather public and unrepented sin that causes the problem. Marriage is a public matter—even same sex ‘marriage.’ Most couples cohabiting do not keep it a secret. Such situations would invariably become known. The reason for morality clauses is merely to enforce a requirement for employees to be practicing Catholics or at least to not publicly contradict Catholic moral principles by the way they lead their life.But (i’m playing devil’s advocate here, I think the teacher should be fired for marrying a man. Now if he kept himself in the closet or kept his relationship private then yeah I don’t think he should be fired, anyway) there are plenty of teacher I know who have had affairs or cohabited at my Catholic school who were seen as okay. And this is in red state small town America, not Seattle or California. Sadly I think Homosexuality gets more of the bad rap compared to just plain fornicating. I mean if a student was gay, they get bullied. If a student was sleeping around with the opposite gender, then they are popular
It is a shame he is “exemplifying” the need for millstones for those that cause children to stumble.In this article from the protest at St. James cathedral it shows a photo with caption of the new mayor elect, Ed Murray, speaking to the students…
At right out of the students mouths, "Zach Steffens, a junior at Eastside Catholic, summed up feelings toward “Mr. Z,” saying: “They shouldn’t be excluding people who exemplify the gospel teachings of the Catholic Church.