Catholic lawmakers ‘have no basis’ to deny same-sex civil unions after Pope’s historic intervention, says Philippine president

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Yes that is what he is saying. I get the sense that he is endorsing these civil union laws as way to protect homosexuals from undue bigotry without realizing the inherent harm to the Church. He does not consider them as equivalent to marriage but in actuality they pretty much are in a society. I think this is not a very good stance personally.
 
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I am not “bashing the Pope”. I am pointing out that his words have influence and have been causing more harm to the faith than good. He is often silent on these matters and leaves his people in the aftermath of his comments.
 
TMC said:
No, I think you are taking what YOU think the Church teaches (or should teach) over against what the POPE says. Just to be clear.
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See I knew this would happen. The laity take his PERSONAL OPINION as authoritative teaching. Despite the attempts by some to say oh it was taken out of context, but at the same time support civil unions because the Pope stated a PERSONAL OPINION.
 
I am familiar with that document. So where we are at is that YOU believe that CDC document forecloses Catholic support of civil unions for all time, and Pope Francis thinks it does not. Again, weighing the relative weight of those opinions (yours and the Pope’s)… still coming down on the Pope’s side.
 
TMC said:
Again, weighing the relative weight of those opinions (yours and the Pope’s)… still coming down on the Pope’s side.
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Yes because personal opinions have the weight of magisterial teaching. :roll_eyes:
 
TMC said:
That is obviously not Pope Francis’ view.
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"Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake – the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites,

10 thieves, misers, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 Some of you used to be of that kind: but you have been washed clean, you have been sanctified, and you have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and through the Spirit of our God."

1 Corinthians 6. 9-11
Jerusalem Bible

That is what St Paul wrote. Do you consider the Pope`s thoughts on this matter to outweigh those of St Paul?
 
TMC said:
Well, yours doesn’t we know that.
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And thus the confusion continues over what constitutes teaching and what constitutes personal opinion. It’s out of context BUT the Pope’s opinion is more authoritative than yours SO civil unions are a matter of opinion BUT you’re a rad trad heretic meanie head who thinks you’re more Catholic than the Pope if you disagree with his PERSONAL OPINION.

No wonder the Church is losing members with such confusion.
 
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I am taking the Pope’s thoughts on what the Church teaches and should teach over yours and other internet commentators.
 
IanM said:
That is what St Paul wrote. Do you consider the Pope`s thoughts on this matter to outweigh those of St Paul?
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Well St Paul was a misogynist living in a culturally ignorant era. Obviously we know better.
 
Yes, I can read it, too. I can agree that the person that wrote that document meant it to say what it says. That is not what I am contesting.

I am contesting whether you are in a position, either via expertise or authority, to say whether the Pope can or should say something different today. I think the Pope has the expertise and authority to make that decision. I think you are not. So between you and the Pope, I think the Pope is the right person to make that decision.
 
IanM said:
That is what St Paul wrote. Do you consider the Pope`s thoughts on this matter to outweigh those of St Paul?
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Based on what the Pope has said about these things, I don’t think he’s looking to “outweigh” anything St. Paul has said.
 
IanM said:
Yes, but what about St Paul`s teaching?
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I am sure that the Pope is aware of the contents of Scripture. It is his job to determine how that impacts Church teaching, not yours or mine.
 
TMC said:
I am sure that the Pope is aware of the contents of Scripture. It is his job to determine how that impacts Church teaching, not yours or mine.
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You realize this is where Catholics get the stereotype of being sheep, right? The old stereotype of not being able to acknowledge A as A because their leaders say different? Funny it took a liberal Pope to confirm such a stereotype.
 
Yes, the Church that is lead by Pope Francis, and the CDF that serves the Pope and the Church.

You seem to believe that anything published by the CDF binds all future Popes. That is not how it works. Are you suggesting that nothing that is ever said by the CDF can ever be changed? The Pope can be wrong, but a committee that serves the Pope is never wrong?
 
TMC said:
Ridiculous. The “sheep” stereotype is better applied to the notion that neither the Pope or the Church can think for themselves, but must be bound by a CDF document from the past.
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Oh I seem to have struck a chord. It’s what people think of Catholics, my friend. Because of what you’re displaying in this thread.
 
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