Catholic Leader: Obama Abortion Position in the 'Minority'

[Jersey_Jeepster]

Really? I wasn’t aware they officially offered this position. Interesting.

The Vatican has made the statement that this is a local issue, and I find that disappointing.

I heard Alan Keyes comment on this last night and he made one good point. He said that the Pope is a head of state and that heads of state don’t go around calling other heads of state evil (referring to our head of state Obama).

While I agree with that, I do think that the Vatican can address the University of Notre Dame and take action. It’s time for Notre Dame to stop selling itself as a Catholic university. It’s obvious that the school administration and people like Jenkins see Notre Dame as more of a secular institution that just happens to have a lot of Catholics enrolled.

 

[Michael_C]

When ever someone quote’s Fr. McBrien or mentions something they read by him I take it as a signal to beware. Kinda like a fire alarm or air siren.

I find the media to be very good at defining who is a good Catholic. If the main stream media loves them, beware (I.E. Fr. McBrien). If the main stream media is hostile towards them they’re faithful Catholics (Pope Bbenedict XVI). Not 100% but usually true.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

Did anyone see the priest who appeared on Hannity tonight? I have seen him around before, but have never thought he should be censured. That changed tonight, he was every bit the co-conspirator of McBrien. At least Hannity, who I often think is a bit of a blowhard, challenged him saying that he was representing moral relativism (comparing the war in Iraq to abortion).

I was wondering who this priest is and why he actually calls himself a Catholic priest.

He was supporting Obama’s speech and saying that we should look forward to help Obama reduce abortions. He thought Obama’s statement that abortions should become rare was poignant, but he made no comment on how Obama wants to make abortions rare. Obama thinks that abortions will become rare by promoting contraception. The president just stuck his finger in the eyes of all Catholics by reducing funding for abstinence programs and increasing funding for condom distribution and use.

Instead of making abortions rare, how about making them non-existent? Isn’t this the position Catholics should take on the issue?

Does this Father Beck (I think that’s his name) realize that this is how his hero wants to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions? Does the Father realize what Obama’s point of view is on children who survive (through some sort of miracle) the abortion process?

Priests like Father Beck are a disgrace and I would love to see them filtered out of the Catholic Church.

 

[tap11]

I was wondering who this priest is and why he actually calls himself a Catholic priest.

He was supporting Obama’s speech and saying that we should look forward to help Obama reduce abortions. He thought Obama’s statement that abortions should become rare was poignant, but he made no comment on how Obama wants to make abortions rare. Obama thinks that abortions will become rare by promoting contraception. The president just stuck his finger in the eyes of all Catholics by reducing funding for abstinence programs and increasing funding for condom distribution and use.

Instead of making abortions rare, how about making them non-existent? Isn’t this the position Catholics should take on the issue?

Does this Father Beck (I think that’s his name) realize that this is how his hero wants to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions? Does the Father realize what Obama’s point of view is on children who survive (through some sort of miracle) the abortion process?

Priests like Father Beck are a disgrace and I would love to see them filtered out of the Catholic Church.

Exactly. Father Beck and “Father” McBrien are materially cooperating with evil by giving the laity reason to believe that it is alright to ignore the holocaust of the unborn. I am distraught that moral relativism is not only present and popular in secular society, but also within the Church.

 

[Brooklyn]

That JERK Jenkins is (I do not regard him as a father of anything except that of lies) lied on world wide T.V. when he during the middle of his long admiration and political speech concerning Obama, made the statement that OBama had stopped in the middle of his very important presidential campaign to rush to the side of his dying grandmother. My God does he think that the majority of us did not follow that campaign and know that he waited until the very end to do that? Jenkins showed himself clearly for what he is and that is a *** KISSER!!!

I was as upset as anyone over what happened at ND yesterday. I felt it was a complete travesty and blashphemy against everything that is good and holy. I cried as as I saw those praying the rosary arrested on what is suppose to be a Catholic university. We should never honor those who support evil, and there is nothing more evil than abortion. I think Fr. Jenkins and all others who supported Pres Obama need to be taken to task.

However, I think we need to be very careful not to let our anger be misdirected. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph. 6:12) We must always remember that our Lord died on the cross and shed his blood for all mankind, and that he said to St. Faustina, his mercy goes first to the greatest sinner. Fr. Jenkins is not our enemy, even President Obama is not our enemy. Our enemy is “Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.” Remember a great persecuter of the Church in the first century - Saul, who even participated in the actual killing of Christians, and he is now one of our greatest saints. When I pray in front of an abortion clinic, I certainly pray for the babies, but I actually pray even more for those involved in the abortions that they will come to repentance and accept the mercy of our Lord. We all must pray for that. Our Lord loves them, and we must also.

Mary

 

[stuartsfeather]

I was as upset as anyone over what happened at ND yesterday. I felt it was a complete travesty and blashphemy against everything that is good and holy. I cried as as I saw those praying the rosary arrested on what is suppose to be a Catholic university. We should never honor those who support evil, and there is nothing more evil than abortion. I think Fr. Jenkins and all others who supported Pres Obama need to be taken to task.

However, I think we need to be very careful not to let our anger be misdirected. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph. 6:12) We must always remember that our Lord died on the cross and shed his blood for all mankind, and that he said to St. Faustina, his mercy goes first to the greatest sinner. Fr. Jenkins is not our enemy, even President Obama is not our enemy. Our enemy is “Satan and all the other evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.” Remember a great persecuter of the Church in the first century - Saul, who even participated in the actual killing of Christians, and he is now one of our greatest saints. When I pray in front of an abortion clinic, I certainly pray for the babies, but I actually pray even more for those involved in the abortions that they will come to repentance and accept the mercy of our Lord. We all must pray for that. Our Lord loves them, and we must also.

Mary

I applaude your protest at abortion clinics and your obvious love and charity. Please also respect my view that as long as people like Jenkins and Obama exhibit the actions and thoughts they are continuing to display THEY ARE MY ENEMY. An enemy seeks to destroy that which you believe in and work for. I will pray for them but I will also fight with word and action and show my displeasure in them by any and all legal and public means at my disposal. Brooklyn if that offends your sensibilities then I am TRULY SORRY and I do mean that! because you are my brother or sister in Christ. (also because I can not see or hear the words Brooklyn without remembering Pee Wee Reese the worlds greatest shortstop, God Bless him and may he rest in peace)

May God bless you in your zeal and love for Him.

Stuartsfeather

 

[Brooklyn]

I applaude your protest at abortion clinics and your obvious love and charity. Please also respect my view that as long as people like Jenkins and Obama exhibit the actions and thoughts they are continuing to display THEY ARE MY ENEMY. An enemy seeks to destroy that which you believe in and work for. I will pray for them but I will also fight with word and action and show my displeasure in them by any and all legal and public means at my disposal. Brooklyn if that offends your sensibilities then I am TRULY SORRY and I do mean that! because you are my brother or sister in Christ. (also because I can not see or hear the words Brooklyn without remembering Pee Wee Reese the worlds greatest shortstop, God Bless him and may he rest in peace)

May God bless you in your zeal and love for Him.

Stuartsfeather

One of the greatest lessons - maybe the greatest lesson - I have learned from the Church and from our Lord is the lesson of love. We live in a fallen world, we are all born cut off from our Lord, completely empty of grace, and it is only because our Lord chose to become a human baby, grow to be a man and give his life on the Cross that any of us have life within us. The Liturgy of the Hours had a great reading today: “The Holy Spirit renews us in baptism through his godhead, which he shares with the Father and the Son. Finding us in a state of deformity, the Spirit restores our original beauty and fills us with his grace. The Spirit frees us from sin and death, and changes us from the earthly men we were, men of dust and ashes, into spiritual men, sharers in the divine glory, sons and heirs of God the Father.”

Because of the sacrifice of our Lord and the gift of the Holy Spirit, you and I can understand the difference between good and evil. There is nothing we can take credit for. Our entire part in this is the fact that we, like our Blessed Mother, said “yes” to the Holy Spirit. Everything else is the work of God. As our Lord died on the cross, spilling out his blood for mankind, he said “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.” He expects us to do no less than that. We must always pray for those in darkness, and we must never consider them our enemy. They are fallen human beings, just like we are. We must all learn the lesson of mercy and love. We must always pray for each other, and never consider another human being as our enemy. Our Lord never considered man to be his enemy, even when we put him to death.

I completely understand your anger, and I fight myself constantly to keep from hating those who perpetuate the evil of abortion. But all I need do is look at our Lord hanging on the cross, pouring out his blood to be reminded of the lesson of love. Spending time in adoration is a great way of learning this lesson.

God bless you, and keep fighting the good fight.

Mary

 

[stuartsfeather]

One of the greatest lessons - maybe the greatest lesson - I have learned from the Church and from our Lord is the lesson of love. We live in a fallen world, we are all born cut off from our Lord, completely empty of grace, and it is only because our Lord chose to become a human baby, grow to be a man and give his life on the Cross that any of us have life within us. The Liturgy of the Hours had a great reading today: “The Holy Spirit renews us in baptism through his godhead, which he shares with the Father and the Son. Finding us in a state of deformity, the Spirit restores our original beauty and fills us with his grace. The Spirit frees us from sin and death, and changes us from the earthly men we were, men of dust and ashes, into spiritual men, sharers in the divine glory, sons and heirs of God the Father.”

Because of the sacrifice of our Lord and the gift of the Holy Spirit, you and I can understand the difference between good and evil. There is nothing we can take credit for. Our entire part in this is the fact that we, like our Blessed Mother, said “yes” to the Holy Spirit. Everything else is the work of God. As our Lord died on the cross, spilling out his blood for mankind, he said “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.” He expects us to do no less than that. We must always pray for those in darkness, and we must never consider them our enemy. They are fallen human beings, just like we are. We must all learn the lesson of mercy and love. We must always pray for each other, and never consider another human being as our enemy. Our Lord never considered man to be his enemy, even when we put him to death.

I completely understand your anger, and I fight myself constantly to keep from hating those who perpetuate the evil of abortion. But all I need do is look at our Lord hanging on the cross, pouring out his blood to be reminded of the lesson of love. Spending time in adoration is a great way of learning this lesson.

God bless you, and keep fighting the good fight.

Mary

Thank you for your insightful and precious reply to my hastily sent post. Mary, I know this is possibly not the place for it but I do need to tell you that I struggle with that not having an enemy thing.
My beautiful, God loving and God serving 18 year old daughter was killed two years ago by people she did not even know. Those people came into her life and thirty minutes later left her dead on the side of a lonely country road while they went off doing the business of the one they served. They have yet to stand trial because they have money and political power.
I did not choose to be without my daughter, someone else chose for me, just as these misguided would be mothers do daily, they choose for or against their baby. Obama helps to misguide these women by giving them reason to believe that their choice helps poor unfortunate suffering human beings and is therefore a justification in homicide of their baby.
I know I am preaching to the choir by telling you this and I do not want to come off that way. I want you to know that I would like very much to be able to really forgive and love as our Lord directs but Mary I really do not think I am capable of ever doing that. I am torn continually between rage and utter depression.
Mary, Please remember me and wife and son at adoration and forgive me OP for using your venue to vent. I’m out of here.

 

[Brooklyn]

Thank you for your insightful and precious reply to my hastily sent post. Mary, I know this is possibly not the place for it but I do need to tell you that I struggle with that not having an enemy thing.
My beautiful, God loving and God serving 18 year old daughter was killed two years ago by people she did not even know. Those people came into her life and thirty minutes later left her dead on the side of a lonely country road while they went off doing the business of the one they served. They have yet to stand trial because they have money and political power.
I did not choose to be without my daughter, someone else chose for me, just as these misguided would be mothers do daily, they choose for or against their baby. Obama helps to misguide these women by giving them reason to believe that their choice helps poor unfortunate suffering human beings and is therefore a justification in homicide of their baby.
I know I am preaching to the choir by telling you this and I do not want to come off that way. I want you to know that I would like very much to be able to really forgive and love as our Lord directs but Mary I really do not think I am capable of ever doing that. I am torn continually between rage and utter depression.
Mary, Please remember me and wife and son at adoration and forgive me OP for using your venue to vent. I’m out of here.

My deepest heartfelt sympathy on your loss. I can’t begin to imagine what you have and are experiencing, and I would never for one moment judge you. Any feelings you have are completely natural and understandable.

I wil pray for your and your wife that the Holy Spirit will give you comfort and peace and understanding in this horrendous loss. God bless you and watch over you.

Mary

 

[bookgirl32]

The Vatican has made the statement that this is a local issue, and I find that disappointing.

I heard Alan Keyes comment on this last night and he made one good point. He said that the Pope is a head of state and that heads of state don’t go around calling other heads of state evil (referring to our head of state Obama).

While I agree with that, I do think that the Vatican can address the University of Notre Dame and take action. It’s time for Notre Dame to stop selling itself as a Catholic university. It’s obvious that the school administration and people like Jenkins see Notre Dame as more of a secular institution that just happens to have a lot of Catholics enrolled.

My point is this: There are “Catholic” universities around the entire world that are in somewhat similar positions as ND. ND just happens to, at this moment, have the most high profile situation. But other schools are being just as irresponsible to the Church in otehr ways, maybe even more destructive ways b/c they are more subtle and less easy to catch. Does the Pope, or the Vatican, personally get involved in every single one of these situations, sidestepping the authorities that they have put in place to handle the situation?

I’m just frustrated at this continuous image being put out there that the Pope doesn’t care, he’s not doing anything about it, etc. etc. Most of us posting on these boards have absolutely NO idea what is actually being done or said. He’s the leader of our Church because God chose him to be, trust him a little. And please don’t feed into Time and the other liberal media’s crusade to paint a “divided” Catholic Church. It is not, and never has been divided. It has had dissenters, Jenkins being one, but he has absolutely no power to change, divide, etc. what the actual true Church is.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

My point is this: There are “Catholic” universities around the entire world that are in somewhat similar positions as ND. ND just happens to, at this moment, have the most high profile situation. But other schools are being just as irresponsible to the Church in otehr ways, maybe even more destructive ways b/c they are more subtle and less easy to catch. Does the Pope, or the Vatican, personally get involved in every single one of these situations, sidestepping the authorities that they have put in place to handle the situation?

I’m just frustrated at this continuous image being put out there that the Pope doesn’t care, he’s not doing anything about it, etc. etc. Most of us posting on these boards have absolutely NO idea what is actually being done or said. He’s the leader of our Church because God chose him to be, trust him a little. And please don’t feed into Time and the other liberal media’s crusade to paint a “divided” Catholic Church. It is not, and never has been divided. It has had dissenters, Jenkins being one, but he has absolutely no power to change, divide, etc. what the actual true Church is.

I am in agreement with you.

In this situation, the Vatican has made the official statement that this is a local issue. Of course, we can never know what action they are taking below the radar, so to speak. If they are taking action, wouldn’t it be good to let frustrated Catholics like you and I know, so we can have more confidence in our Church? Quite frankly, what happened at Notre Dame this weekend is very frustrating and upsetting to me.

My main point is that Catholic colleges should be 100% Catholic like Franciscan University.

I also see a lot of unity in the Catholic Church, and I don’t read Time or any of the other liberal rags, so I am not influenced by their propaganda.

 

[bookgirl32]

I am in agreement with you.

In this situation, the Vatican has made the official statement that this is a local issue. Of course, we can never know what action they are taking below the radar, so to speak. If they are taking action, wouldn’t it be good to let frustrated Catholics like you and I know, so we can have more confidence in our Church? Quite frankly, what happened at Notre Dame this weekend is very frustrating and upsetting to me.

It’s upsetting to everyone who cares about the Church, but our reactions can damage the Church just as much as anything else. How exactly would they “let us know”? Are they going to call everyone of us personally? They would have to make a public statement, and has it occured to anyone that this isn’t necessarily a public matter?

My main point is that Catholic colleges should be 100% Catholic like Franciscan University.

As I’ve come to understand things, Franciscan University is really just about in the same technical situation as Notre Dame. It’s not owned by the Catholic Church. Of course it’s a very good example of an orthodox Catholic university, but that isn’t because things there are handled differently (in general) from an administrative stand point.

What do you even mean by “100%” Catholic? I don’t think being Catholic is a prerequisite for admission into the college. I don’t know that it’s even a prerequisite for employment by the college.

My point is, although not likely, the circumstances are similar enough that the same situation could’ve happened at Franciscan.

What I’m coming to realize is that what happened at Notre Dame isn’t necessarily a result of lax official guidance by the Church or the Pope, which is what a lot of people are implying even if they don’t mean to.

 

[Havard]

I think when people say ‘Notre Dame should be 100% Catholic’, what they mean is that it should follow Ex Corde Ecclesiae.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

It’s upsetting to everyone who cares about the Church, but our reactions can damage the Church just as much as anything else. How exactly would they “let us know”? Are they going to call everyone of us personally? They would have to make a public statement, and has it occured to anyone that this isn’t necessarily a public matter?

As I’ve come to understand things, Franciscan University is really just about in the same technical situation as Notre Dame. It’s not owned by the Catholic Church. Of course it’s a very good example of an orthodox Catholic university, but that isn’t because things there are handled differently (in general) from an administrative stand point.

What do you even mean by “100%” Catholic? I don’t think being Catholic is a prerequisite for admission into the college. I don’t know that it’s even a prerequisite for employment by the college.

My point is, although not likely, the circumstances are similar enough that the same situation could’ve happened at Franciscan.

What I’m coming to realize is that what happened at Notre Dame isn’t necessarily a result of lax official guidance by the Church or the Pope, which is what a lot of people are implying even if they don’t mean to.

The tone of your responses to me seem to suggest that you think I am angry at the Pope or the Church, or that I blame the Vatican for the dwindling nature of Notre Dame’s Catholic identity.

None of those things are true.

Catholicism is under constant attack by the secular world, the media, and other Christian organizations. A controversy like the one with Notre Dame is perfect fodder for more criticism. Obviously, a public statement by the Vatican would be the way to let the laity know the position the Vatican takes on the ND mess. But, your sarcasm is noted.

If Catholics are frustrated with all the criticism the Church receives, that frustration lies in the fact that, at times, it seems that silence from the Vatican on some matters translates into a hands-off policy. A simple statement that says, “We are addressing the issue” would be good enough, in my opinion. Do we really want more accusations of cover-ups like those thrown at the Church over the sexual abuse scandals?

The opposing forces will use any circumstance to make the Catholic Church seem hypocritical. Having a supposedly Catholic institution like Notre Dame honor a man who harbors such a heinous stance on life issues only feeds into the aim of those forces.

Havard has it correct. Colleges that want to flaunt a Catholic indentity need to follow Ex Corde Eccleseai. There is a lot more to it, but here are some of the guidelines in ECE:

• Commitment to be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church;
• Commitment to Catholic ideals, principles and attitudes in carrying out research, teaching and all other university activities, including activities of officially-recognized student and faculty organizations and associations, and with due regard for academic freedom and the conscience of every individual;
• Commitment to serve others, particularly the poor, underprivileged and vulnerable members of society;
• Commitment of witness of the Catholic faith by Catholic administrators and teachers, especially those teaching the theological disciplines, and acknowledgment and respect on the part of non-Catholic teachers and administrators of the university’s Catholic identity and mission;
• Commitment to provide courses for students on Catholic moral and religious principles and their application to critical areas such as human life and other issues of social justice;
• Commitment to care pastorally for the students, faculty, administration and staff;
• Commitment to provide personal services (health care, counseling and guidance) to students, as well as administration and faculty, in conformity with the Church’s ethical and religious teaching and directives.

 

[bookgirl32]

The tone of your responses to me seem to suggest that you think I am angry at the Pope or the Church, or that I blame the Vatican for the dwindling nature of Notre Dame’s Catholic identity.

None of those things are true.

Catholicism is under constant attack by the secular world, the media, and other Christian organizations. A controversy like the one with Notre Dame is perfect fodder for more criticism. Obviously, a public statement by the Vatican would be the way to let the laity know the position the Vatican takes on the ND mess. But, your sarcasm is noted.

If Catholics are frustrated with all the criticism the Church receives, that frustration lies in the fact that, at times, it seems that silence from the Vatican on some matters translates into a hands-off policy. A simple statement that says, “We are addressing the issue” would be good enough, in my opinion. Do we really want more accusations of cover-ups like those thrown at the Church over the sexual abuse scandals?

The opposing forces will use any circumstance to make the Catholic Church seem hypocritical. Having a supposedly Catholic institution like Notre Dame honor a man who harbors such a heinous stance on life issues only feeds into the aim of those forces.

Havard has it correct. Colleges that want to flaunt a Catholic indentity need to follow Ex Corde Eccleseai. There is a lot more to it, but here are some of the guidelines in ECE:

• Commitment to be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church;
• Commitment to Catholic ideals, principles and attitudes in carrying out research, teaching and all other university activities, including activities of officially-recognized student and faculty organizations and associations, and with due regard for academic freedom and the conscience of every individual;
• Commitment to serve others, particularly the poor, underprivileged and vulnerable members of society;
• Commitment of witness of the Catholic faith by Catholic administrators and teachers, especially those teaching the theological disciplines, and acknowledgment and respect on the part of non-Catholic teachers and administrators of the university’s Catholic identity and mission;
• Commitment to provide courses for students on Catholic moral and religious principles and their application to critical areas such as human life and other issues of social justice;
• Commitment to care pastorally for the students, faculty, administration and staff;
• Commitment to provide personal services (health care, counseling and guidance) to students, as well as administration and faculty, in conformity with the Church’s ethical and religious teaching and directives.

I agree with you on most of this you know. I’m just frustrated by this constant insinuation (purposeful or not) that the Vatican and the Pope are “silent”, as in don’t care, aren’t paying attention, don’t think it’s that big of a deal, etc. etc. I think that is very far from being the case and that the media is taking advantage of those of us who continue to say, “Where’s the Pope?” We, understandably, want him to do something. The fact that he may not be going it in the way we want him to doesn’t mean he’s not.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It comes as no surprise to me that McBrien would say any of this. He has been a dissident against the Catholic Church for years and years.

What does surprise me is peoples’ acceptance of his statement (or that of anyone else) that somehow Obama’s policies are otherwise in line with Catholic teaching. What does McBrien know about Obama’s immigration policies in the future? Since Obama has never said exactly what they are, McBrien is simply assuming that a leftist will surely come up with something of which the Church would approve. And, people just let that go by.

Also, when it comes to helping the needy, where is Obama with that, really? For months now, I have been waiting to see what this administration is going to do to aid the neediest of all; the disabled needy, whose miserable benefits have not been improved significantly no matter who is in power. Obama’s proposals are all for the middle class (and aren’t very much at that) and for organizations that favor him (the bulk of it). Where is all this aid to the truly needy? Again, it’s simply assumed by people like McBrien that somehow leftist attitudes make all things better. And people like him get by with it, notwithstanding that the whole notion is essentially a myth.

In the absence of any concrete policies and programs that really do resolve the immigration situation and really do help the neediest of the needy, there really isn’t any “there” there, except for support of abortion and pork for political supporters. It’s all a pea-and-shell game, and the only real pea under the shells is abortion.

So, McBrien is really just supporting abortion, notwithstanding his protests to the contrary.

 

[tap11]

It comes as no surprise to me that McBrien would say any of this. He has been a dissident against the Catholic Church for years and years.

What does surprise me is peoples’ acceptance of his statement (or that of anyone else) that somehow Obama’s policies are otherwise in line with Catholic teaching. What does McBrien know about Obama’s immigration policies in the future? Since Obama has never said exactly what they are, McBrien is simply assuming that a leftist will surely come up with something of which the Church would approve. And, people just let that go by.

Also, when it comes to helping the needy, where is Obama with that, really? For months now, I have been waiting to see what this administration is going to do to aid the neediest of all; the disabled needy, whose miserable benefits have not been improved significantly no matter who is in power. Obama’s proposals are all for the middle class (and aren’t very much at that) and for organizations that favor him (the bulk of it). Where is all this aid to the truly needy? Again, it’s simply assumed by people like McBrien that somehow leftist attitudes make all things better. And people like him get by with it, notwithstanding that the whole notion is essentially a myth.

In the absence of any concrete policies and programs that really do resolve the immigration situation and really do help the neediest of the needy, there really isn’t any “there” there, except for support of abortion and pork for political supporters. It’s all a pea-and-shell game, and the only real pea under the shells is abortion.

So, McBrien is really just supporting abortion, notwithstanding his protests to the contrary.

You sir are dead on. I have wondered why anyone affiliated with the Church says these things. For example, I keep hearing that the Chief Commissar’s health care plan is more in keeping with Church teaching. What is this health care program? What are the details? Does it involve tax payer funded abortion on demand?

 

[Ridgerunner]

You sir are dead on. I have wondered why anyone affiliated with the Church says these things. For example, I keep hearing that the Chief Commissar’s health care plan is more in keeping with Church teaching. What is this health care program? What are the details? Does it involve tax payer funded abortion on demand?

I have long believed the Obama healthcare plan will turn out to be “Medicaid with deductibles”; more specifically, that qualifications for what will really be Medicaid (with deductibles) will be expanded, rather like the SCHIP expansion to include people making significantly more than the average wage. But it will be called something else, of course.

The only other features seem to be “elimination of waste and fraud”, and we have heard that one before. The other being the medical industry’s alleged promise to reduce costs by mysterious means. And, I believe that one as much as I believe I can buy a wonderful bridge in Brooklyn for $5.00, particularly since the providers denied that they promised it after the big powwow with Obama.

But we’ll see.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

I agree with you on most of this you know. I’m just frustrated by this constant insinuation (purposeful or not) that the Vatican and the Pope are “silent”, as in don’t care, aren’t paying attention, don’t think it’s that big of a deal, etc. etc. I think that is very far from being the case and that the media is taking advantage of those of us who continue to say, “Where’s the Pope?” We, understandably, want him to do something. The fact that he may not be going it in the way we want him to doesn’t mean he’s not.

That’s very true. As I stated before, even a quick remark like, “We are addressing it,” or “We are aware of the situation” would be good enough for me.

You are correct when you say we have no idea if, how, when, they are addressing any issue. Other than that, they can tell all the questioners outside of the Faith to mind their own business.

Alan Keyes made a great point about this situation. He said that the Pope is a head of state, and that heads of state should not go around calling other heads of state evil (meaning Obama). He also said that the local Bishop addressed the problem and that is as it should be. I agree with that.

Again, the only thing I would want from the Vatican is maybe a word that explains that they are addressing it in this manner. They did say that it was a local issue, and in my denseness I am only now realizing that the statement was a way in explaining that the Bishop had it covered.

The Vatican could just be a little more clear about their official statements. There are dumb Catholics like me who need things explained more plainly.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

By the way, did the title of this thread change, or am I just losing what’s left of my mind?

Is this some sort of conspiracy? Why didn’t the Pope alert us to the title change?