Catholic leader rejects 'Jewish state'

[Lev23]

And there are many Muslims who say God gave the land to them. And when both sides claim God is on their side, you have unending war.

Islam is a Johnny come latley religion. But you claiming to be a Christian basically say there is a problem who is right, when there is archaelogical evidence, historic writings, and the scriptures themselves that prove God gave the land to the Israelites. All Islam can do is destroy all evidence of the Israelites presence in the land. The war is unending because practically no one stands up for what Islam and Muhammad said about before the end of days come–that all Jews must be killed.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I accep that vern. You are right. As far as the Church saying that the moslems have the same God as we do, I do not believe the Catholic Church recognizes the Koran as the Torah as being the Word of God.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Let the Church speak for itself:

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

I believe it is not all Israelites that believe that the State of Israel was instituted by God (as opposed to the Land of Israel), it must also be true on the muslim side of things. I would appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Most Muslims generally are willing to discuss the issue on pragmatic terms – recall how Anwar Sadat approached Israel to make peace between Israel and Egypt. It is the fanatics (on both sides) that are the stumbling block to peace.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Despite what you say, Israel is the only nation that has a promised remnant in Church. But yet Sabbah or any other person on this thread thank or praise God for that. All I’m reading is how they are the new chosen ones, when there is a remant of the original ones in the Church.

One cannot be Gods Choson if they reject the Savior. That simple.

So today we see that God is bringing the Israelites back into the land and it is sad to see Church members and especially so called leaders do nothing but side with the world, especially Islam, that these Israelites are of no biblical importance and contantly condemning them for everything they do-EVEN TO EXIST!!!

Sad

Their country should never have been created in the first place. But as it has been created, they now do have a right to exist as a nation. However, Israel doesn’t seem concerned about existing. Rather they seem to want more power.

 

[reggieM]

Is anyone else disgusted by the views of televangelist John Hagee? He is a fanatical zionist and he acts like Israel is more holy than anything else on earth. He claims modern Israel was directly created by God (not man).

Ideology like that is dangerous!

It is dangerous. I’ve heard him preach on TV and he’s very wrong in his interpretations of Scripture.

He’s also an anti-Catholic preacher.

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

jewsagainstzionism.com has good info about israel.

 

[reggieM]

That’s an interesting site. Thanks for posting it.

We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

In other words, God had nothing to do with the creation of the State of Israel, in spite of what some outspoken Evangelical pastors insist.

 

[reggieM]

From the same site:

the Zionist state is well on its way to dissolving its own Jewishness through intermarriage … after a certain amount of intermarriage (with non-Jewish immigrants from the Soviet Union, etc.) the people will lose any residual Jewish identity

Some project that this will happen to a majority of the Jewish people in Israel over the next generation. Once the “Jewish identity” is gone, then all of this talk about “God bringing the Hebrew people home” will not have any meaning.

jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=1

"It is estimated that 80% of the young people currently in the Jewish Agency programs in the FSU are not halakhically Jewish.

Twenty percent of the young couples getting married today do so outside of the Chief Rabbinate and in many cases the husband or the wife or both are Russian immigrants who are not halakhically Jewish."

 

[Lev23]

#1.One cannot be Gods Choson if they reject the Savior. That simple.

#2.Their country should never have been created in the first place. But as it has been created, they now do have a right to exist as a nation. However, Israel doesn’t seem concerned about existing. Rather they seem to want more power.

#1.The remant of Israel have accepted the savior. But I hear no thanks or praised from you on that fact. In fact, you seem to steer clear away from the fact that there is a remnant of Israel in the church.

#2.Want more power? According to the likes of you, Israel will have to give up more land soon just to momentarily appease the Islamic beast waiting for its chance to pounce on Israel. Satan knows if he can do whatever he can to rid the land of all Jews, and to rid the world of Jews, he can get man to call God a liar on his prophecy of Israel(Jeremiah31:35-37)(Zech12,13,14)(Joel3)(Matt25:31-46)(Isaiah66), etc.

 

[Lev23]

That’s an interesting site. Thanks for posting it.

In other words, God had nothing to do with the creation of the State of Israel, in spite of what some outspoken Evangelical pastors insist.

Satan has been trying to dismantle Israel from the beginning by first trying to convince Israel themselves there is no God and the scriptures are not Gods word. And Satan wants them to believe all the things God has done for them wasn’t really God, but it was all their own doing. Satan wants them in their own religion and chasing idols. Satan does not want them going to the creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

xmydreamsfadex and yourself have delightfully taken a website of unbelieving broken branches to prove you are right and Gods prophecy and promises to them through Yeshua of Nazerath are null and void.

Yes, God has made them a nation again in that land, but the nation as a whole while not realize that until they are ready to call on him who comes in the name of the Lord for his protection and mercy and grace.

It will have to come to that because the likes of you and xmydreamsfadex aid Israel into believing they are not the people he will bring out of all nations and now must turn to him and him only, like the prophecies of scripture says so.

 

[Lev23]

all of this talk about “God bringing the Hebrew people home” will not have any meaning.

I’m deeply saddened by your disbelief in what God said he would do to those people according to the scriptures.

 

[Lev23]

That’s an interesting site. Thanks for posting it.

In other words, God had nothing to do with the creation of the State of Israel, in spite of what some outspoken Evangelical pastors insist.

…despite what the God of Israel spoke through his holy prophets…

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Satan has been trying to dismantle Israel from the beginning by first trying to convince Israel themselves there is no God and the scriptures are not Gods word. And Satan wants them to believe all the things God has done for them wasn’t really God, but it was all there own doing.

xmydreamsfadex and yourself have delightfully taken a website of unbelieving broken branches to prove you are right and Gods prophecy and promises to them through Yeshua of Nazerath are null and void.

Yes, God has made them a nation again in that land, but the nation as a whole while not realize that until they are ready to call on him who comes in the name of the Lord for his protection and mercy and grace.

It will have to come to that because the likes of you and xmydreamsfadex aid Israel into believing they are not the people he will bring out of all nations and now must turn to him and him only, like the prophecies of scripture says so.

Lev,

I am sorry, but are you saying that the Rabbis and their followers that say Zionism is wrong, are incorrect?

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

…despite what the God of Israel spoke through his holy prophets…

So your interpretation of Talmud is correct and these folks have it all wrong?

 

[Lev23]

So your interpretation of Talmud is correct and these folks have it all wrong?

Is the Talmud Gods word or commentary of man? Do you know the difference?

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Is the Talmud Gods word or commentary of man? Do you know the difference?

sure do.
So how do you explain this group that is jewish and their strong anti-zionism belief?
You say Israel as it is now is what God wanted, they say your mistaken, who is right?

 

[Lev23]

Lev,

I am sorry, but are you saying that the Rabbis and their followers that say Zionism is wrong, are incorrect?

Because their disbelief Jesus of Nazerath and the prophecies concerning him in the scriptures, it is very easy to see their disbelief that God will bring them back from all nations like the scriptures foretold.

So, yes.

 

[Lev23]

sure do.
So how do you explain this group that is jewish and their strong anti-zionism belief?
You say Israel as it is now is what God wanted, they say your mistaken, who is right?

Don’t add to what I said!

I never said that! Unsaved Israel is just as wicked as any nation right now, and all they got to do is turn to their God and their God only. But they still refuse to do this, they were brought back in unbelief and it will take the events of what is told in prophecy for them to turn back to God. The will see their Messiah come, and they will realize who it is, Yeshua of Nazerath.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Don’t add to what I said!

I never said that! Unsaved Israel is just as wicked as any nation right now, and all they got to do is turn to their God and their God only. But they still refuse to do this, they were brought back in unbelief and it will take the events of what is told in prophecy for them to turn back to God.

WOW! calm down Lev.

Perhaps I misread one of your posts:shrug:
I see where your coming from now…

 

[reggieM]

I’m deeply saddened by your disbelief in what God said he would do to those people according to the scriptures.

I sounds like you’re taking some kind of Sola Scriptura view of things which is not compatible with the Catholic Faith – that is the teaching of God’s Messiah.

“Those people” have been redeemed. They no longer have any need to identify themselves by a racial characteristic. In fact, those who think that they have have privileges in the Kingdom of God simply because they’re from a Hebrew blood-line are going against the teaching of Christ – in whom there “is neither Jew, nor Greek, etc”.

There “is [no] Jew” (Galatians 3:28). The whole concept is irrelevant. All of the people of God – those who live in Christ – are the chosen people, the new Israel.

The “Remnant of Israel” in the Catholic Church are distinguished only in that they were Jews who converted to the true Faith of God. There is no reason for them to preserve their Hebrew identity, aside from their cultural bonds.

Again, I don’t know where you got these beliefs, except perhaps from some Evangelicalism or Sola Scriptura view.

 

[Shoshana]

I sounds like you’re taking some kind of Sola Scriptura view of things which is not compatible with the Catholic Faith – that is the teaching of God’s Messiah.

“Those people” have been redeemed. They no longer have any need to identify themselves by a racial characteristic. In fact, those who think that they have have privileges in the Kingdom of God simply because they’re from a Hebrew blood-line are going against the teaching of Christ – in whom there “is neither Jew, nor Greek, etc”.

There “is [no] Jew” (Galatians 3:28). The whole concept is irrelevant. All of the people of God – those who live in Christ – are the chosen people, the new Israel.

The “Remnant of Israel” in the Catholic Church are distinguished only in that they were Jews who converted to the true Faith of God. There is no reason for them to preserve their Hebrew identity, aside from their cultural bonds.

Again, I don’t know where you got these beliefs, except perhaps from some Evangelicalism or Sola Scriptura view.

Messianic Judaism is very popular in Israel…and around the woeld.