Catholic politicians must act against injustice and tyranny

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vern humphrey:
Who supports abortion denies the fundamental concept of human rights. How can justice stem from a denial of human rights?
Amen! I am often accused of being a single issue voter. Not true-I merely refuse to vote for a politican who dos not support the right to life. If I can’t trust someone to support the most basic of all rights how can I trust them with anything else?
 
vern humphrey:
Let’s not fail to get in a dig at dat ol debbil, Big Business, even if it isn’t relevant to the issue.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
For every corruptee there is a corruptor. Small business lacks the ability to suborn nation states. Big business and rich states can do so. It is entirely relevant. Catholic politicians who support selling dictators tanks, guns and fighter bombers which are used to prevent ordinary people in those countries objecting to dictatorial extravagence are probably not being faithful to the Holy Father’s injunction at the top of this thread.
 
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estesbob:
But opposing abortion shoud be the baseline requirement for supporting a politican. I will not vote for a politican solely because they oppose abortion but I will NEVER support one who supports abortion regardless of ther views on other issues. You can not overcome supporting the death of 1.2 million children a year by voting for increasing the minimum wage…
If thirty thousand children die every day from extreme poverty how many is that per year? Do politicians who are indifferent to the death’s of foreign mostly brown skinned children represent the best of Christian virtues if they vote against abortion every time an election draws near?
 
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Matt25:
For every corruptee there is a corruptor. Small business lacks the ability to suborn nation states. Big business and rich states can do so. It is entirely relevant. Catholic politicians who support selling dictators tanks, guns and fighter bombers which are used to prevent ordinary people in those countries objecting to dictatorial extravagence are probably not being faithful to the Holy Father’s injunction at the top of this thread.
Somehow you see a connection – it’s all Big Business’ fault. Robert Mugabwe would be an altar boy if not for Big Business.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
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Matt25:
If thirty thousand children die every day from extreme poverty how many is that per year? Do politicians who are indifferent to the death’s of foreign mostly brown skinned children represent the best of Christian virtues if they vote against abortion every time an election draws near?
So by voting against abortion we somehow vote for killing 30,000 children a day by extreme poverty?
 
vern humphrey:
So by voting against abortion we somehow vote for killing 30,000 children a day by extreme poverty?
No, don’t make stuff up I never suggested it was an either/or situation.
 
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Matt25:
No, don’t make stuff up I never suggested it was an either/or situation.
Then what exactly is the linkage?

Why do you say:
If thirty thousand children die every day from extreme poverty how many is that per year? Do politicians who are indifferent to the death’s of foreign mostly brown skinned children represent the best of Christian virtues if they vote against abortion every time an election draws near?
 
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estesbob:
Amen! I am often accused of being a single issue voter. Not true-I merely refuse to vote for a politican who dos not support the right to life. If I can’t trust someone to support the most basic of all rights how can I trust them with anything else?
But if they don’t support life post-birth, then clearly they don’t respect all life. How do you rate someone that opposses abortion but supports a program that results in that same child starving to death? You either care about the child or you don’t. If you really do, then your care can’t end when they’re born.
 
vern humphrey:
Then what exactly is the linkage?

Why do you say:
There is no linkage. The point I made, perfectly clearly in fact, is that opposition to abortion is not a political programme, it forms part of a programme. A politician who is against abortion but indifferent to other questions of justice, like for example people dying of hunger, being tortured or being denied access to clean water is not a righteous politician in the Catholic tradition.
 
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koda:
But if they don’t support life post-birth, then clearly they don’t respect all life. How do you rate someone that opposses abortion but supports a program that results in that same child starving to death? You either care about the child or you don’t. If you really do, then your care can’t end when they’re born.
Ahh, there’s the moral relativism. If a politician supports a specific agenda, it’s okay to vote for him, regardless of his stand on abortion.
 
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Matt25:
There is no linkage. The point I made, perfectly clearly in fact, is that opposition to abortion is not a political programme, it forms part of a programme. A politician who is against abortion but indifferent to other questions of justice, like for example people dying of hunger, being tortured or being denied access to clean water is not a righteous politician in the Catholic tradition.
Ahh, there’s the moral relativism. If a politician supports a specific agenda, it’s okay to vote for him, regardless of his stand on abortion.
 
vern humphrey:
Ahh, there’s the moral relativism. If a politician supports a specific agenda, it’s okay to vote for him, regardless of his stand on abortion.
Really, thats a position I would be unhappy to advocate. How do you justify it?
 
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Matt25:
Really, thats a position I would be unhappy to advocate. How do you justify it?
I don’t - -but I know someone who does:
There is no linkage. The point I made, perfectly clearly in fact, is that opposition to abortion is not a political programme, it forms part of a programme. A politician who is against abortion but indifferent to other questions of justice, like for example people dying of hunger, being tortured or being denied access to clean water is not a righteous politician in the Catholic tradition.
 
vern humphrey:
I don’t - -but I know someone who does:
You must introduce me sometime. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html
In this context, it must be noted also that a well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals. The Christian faith is an integral unity, and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church’s social doctrine does not exhaust one’s responsibility towards the common good. Nor can a Catholic think of delegating his Christian responsibility to others; rather, the Gospel of Jesus Christ gives him this task, so that the truth about man and the world might be proclaimed and put into action.
Code:
     When political activity comes up against moral principles that do not admit of exception, compromise or derogation, the Catholic commitment becomes more evident and laden with responsibility. In the face of *fundamental and  inalienable ethical demands, *Christians must recognize that what is at stake is the essence of the moral law, which concerns the integral good of the human person. This is the case with laws concerning *abortion* and *euthanasia* .... Such laws must defend the basic right to life from conception to natural death. In the same way, it is necessary to recall the duty to respect and protect the rights of the *human embryo.* Analogously,  the *family* needs to be safeguarded and promoted, based on monogamous marriage between a man and a woman, and protected in its unity and stability in the face of modern laws on divorce: in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on the same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such.
The same is true for the freedom of parents regarding the education of their children; it is an inalienable right recognized also by the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. In the same way, one must consider society’s protection of minors and freedom from *modern forms of slavery *(drug abuse and prostitution, for example). In addition, there is the right to religious freedom and the development of an economy that is at the service of the human person and of the common good, with respect for social justice, the principles of human solidarity and subsidiarity, according to which «the rights of all individuals, families, and organizations and their practical implementation must be acknowledged».
Finally, the question of peace must be mentioned. Certain pacifistic and ideological visions tend at times to secularize the value of peace, while, in other cases, there is the problem of summary ethical judgments which forget the complexity of the issues involved. Peace is always «the work of justice and the effect of charity».It demands the absolute and radical rejection of violence and terrorism and requires a constant and vigilant commitment on the part of all political leaders.
 
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Matt25:
I have in mind, for example Egypt which is the second biggest recipient of US foreign aid in the world.
Third “biggest recipient of US foreign aid in the world.”

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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koda:
How do you rate someone that opposses abortion but supports a program that results in that same child starving to death?
So, by name, list those politicians about whom you are complaining. Who out there is opposed to abortion by supports starving children to death?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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Matt25:
If thirty thousand children die every day from extreme poverty how many is that per year? Do politicians who are indifferent to the death’s of foreign mostly brown skinned children represent the best of Christian virtues if they vote against abortion every time an election draws near?
Why do you insist on making this an either or issue? In the first place I dont know of any politicans who are indifferent to the death of children-regardless fo the color of their skin. But then I dont judge ones compassion by how much money they throw at the problem. There are profound POLICY differences on the best way to help these children The problem is that many of those politicans who purport to care about children dying in poverty believe the solution is to make sure they arent born in the first place. The mere fact they have brown skins makes them at risk to the “armies of compassion” who’s motto is “better dead that underfed”
 
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mlchance:
Third “biggest recipient of US foreign aid in the world.”

– Mark L. Chance.
csmonitor.com/2004/0412/p07s01-wome.html
Code:
Aid is central to Washington's relationship with Cairo. The US has provided Egypt with $1.3 billion a year in military aid since 1979, and an average of $815 million a year in economic assistance. All told, Egypt has received over $50 billion in US largesse since 1975. The money is seen as bolstering Egypt's stability, support for US policies in the region, US access to the Suez Canal, and peace with Israel. But some critics question the aid's effectiveness in spurring economic and democratic development in the Arab world's most populous country - a higher US priority after Sept. 11, 2001...


 Now an independent economist, Abdallah says USAID needs to decrease support for the Egyptian government, and increase its support for civil society in order to realize the sort of economic and political reforms that the United States and the Egyptian people desire."[USAID] is distributed by the Egyptian government in an anarchic way, through personal contacts and political influence," Abdallah says.

         Each year USAID gives $200 million to the Egyptian government in cash handouts to do with as it pleases. The money is theoretically conditional upon economic reforms in problem areas such as deregulation, privatization, and free trade. Most Egyptian economists and businessmen, however, agree that few positive economic reforms have occurred."The role of the state in Egypt is still very similar to the role of the state in Eastern Europe in the 1960s," says Tarek Heggy, the former head of Shell Oil in the Middle East, and a prolific writer on Egyptian society. "I am not aware of much economic reform."

 USAID has been ineffective at changing economic policy here because Cairo knows that in the end it will get the US money regardless of its economic policy, according to Walker, who since leaving the State Department has become head of the Middle East Institute in Washington.
 
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Matt25:
USAID has been ineffective at changing economic policy here because Cairo knows that in the end it will get the US money regardless of its economic policy, according to Walker, who since leaving the State Department has become head of the Middle East Institute in Washington.
So what is the point? A politican who suports aid to Egypt is worse than a politican who supports abortion?

I hope this thread is not mving towards the old tired argument that Republicans don’t care about children once they are born. Utter nonsense , of course, but waived about like the Sword of Excalibur by those trying to rationaize their affiliation with a party that supports taxpayer supported abortion on demand until the childs head fully exits the womb.
 
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