Catholic Polygamy

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Fatboys said:
I have been around long enough on boards to know that if my presence is going to cause problems, contention etc. I certainly do not want to cause that in a place that I do not own and I am a quest. I certainly do not want to disrespect anyone and I love to joke around as well. I am busy and do not spend a lot of time in discussions as I use to. It was like beating my head against the wall trying to explain what I believe to only have it spit on, an disrespected in the most vile and contentious manner. I came here by accident trying to learn about early christians beliefs on polygamy namely the Catholic church. I had read a couple of articles a few years ago that stated that even the catholic church practiced it at one time. This was from non LDS sources I might add. I just accepted it because of the circumstances it said it was lived under. When my relative left the LDS church because of their struggle with polygamy and joined the Catholic church I was trying to find the information about the catholic church and polygamy. I could not find anything about it and thought perhaps I had dreamed it up. I then found this site which was talking about it. It gave me more information on where to look and found that the articles I had read were to general and wrong in some of the facts. I had already told this person about polygamy and had to tell them that the information I had was wrong and corrected it.
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Fatboys -

IMHO, I think your explanation helps quite a bit. It would have been better to have had a little set up and asked a question rather than make what appeared to be a statement of fact. Catholics are appropriately guarded as the Book Of Mormon refers to the Catholic church as the whore of babylon and your prophets have said the same. This is a based on a “great apostasy” in the early church that no Mormon can document. Just the opposite, scripture and the early church fathers record that:
  1. the Church was being led by the Holy Spirit as Christ himself promised.
  2. The Bishops transferred their authority to one another by the laying on of hands (led by the Holy Spirit) without interruption.
  3. the Church membership grew greatly during this time period
  4. there was no apostasy mentioned, ever.
The Mormon church believes that a “great apostasy” occurred but offers no evidence. It’s a question of who do you believe? The Catholic Church based on both scripture and the early church fathers who’s writings are consistent and numerous (compendius actually) or Joseph Smith?
 
Stephen168 said:
A Protestant or a Mormon would answer that way, but not a Catholic.
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That’s only because you believe you know based on your faith. Just as Fatboys believes he knows about Joseph Smith. And as I believe in a Creator and in Jesus Christ as my Savior and the Risen Lord. And you too place faith in God unlike the atheist. And unlike someone of Jewish faith, we place faith in the NT story of the Risen Christ. And you place faith In the Catholic Church’s interpretation of Herself and of Scripture and in Her interpretation of what constitutes His Church. Place faith in the ECFs and in the Catholic Church’s interpretation of them and of history. You have faith Jesus never has needed to reform so the wrong gate does not prevail.

That’s A LOT of faith steps before you get anywhere near to being able to think you truly know. We can “prove” but not truly prove without faith. Because as Paul said that is what we walk by. Not by sight. God bless you along your faith journey. And may His peace be with you always as you walk.
 
CMatt25 said:
you believe
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You don’t know me, and you don’t know the Catholic Church. Catholicism is based on Faith and Reason; Mormonism is not. Catholicism is reasonable while much of Mormonism is irrational. Assuming you know another man’s heart and mind is very Mormon of you, so I understand your desire to sympathize with their irrational beliefs.
 
Fatboys said:
I have been around long enough on boards to know that if my presence is going to cause problems, contention etc. I certainly do not want to cause that in a place that I do not own and I am a quest. I certainly do not want to disrespect anyone and I love to joke around as well. I am busy and do not spend a lot of time in discussions as I use to. It was like beating my head against the wall trying to explain what I believe to only have it spit on, an disrespected in the most vile and contentious manner. I came here by accident trying to learn about early christians beliefs on polygamy namely the Catholic church. I had read a couple of articles a few years ago that stated that even the catholic church practiced it at one time. This was from non LDS sources I might add. I just accepted it because of the circumstances it said it was lived under. When my relative left the LDS church because of their struggle with polygamy and joined the Catholic church I was trying to find the information about the catholic church and polygamy. I could not find anything about it and thought perhaps I had dreamed it up. I then found this site which was talking about it. It gave me more information on where to look and found that the articles I had read were to general and wrong in some of the facts. I had already told this person about polygamy and had to tell them that the information I had was wrong and corrected it.
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I’m confused, please clarify for me.

You said in an earlier post that Catholics practiced polygamy. Now, instead of providing a reference for that, you are saying the information you used was wrong?

The whole timing on this isn’t making sense for me. How long ago did your relative leave? When did you find out the information you were using was wrong?

You said your relative left a few years ago, but as recently as your posting here, you still relied on that information?

I am going to give you some friendly advice. If you make what appears to be a definitive statement on a topic, you better have references to back it up, or some of these posters will eat you alive. 😃

i believe doesn’t really fly in most of the threads around here.
 
Stephen168 said:
You don’t know me, and you don’t know the Catholic Church. Catholicism is based on Faith and Reason; Mormonism is not. Catholicism is reasonable while much of Mormonism is irrational. Assuming you know another man’s heart and mind is very Mormon of you, so I understand your desire to sympathize with their irrational beliefs.
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So you’re saying you don’t believe those things? You don’t know me either.
 
Stephen168 said:
Catholicism is based on Faith and Reason; Mormonism is not. Catholicism is reasonable while much of Mormonism is irrational.
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Not to be disrespectful, but I did get chuckle out of this. I did not know I was irrational or not reasonable. My faith in my eyes is not only rational but very logical and reasonable…

Lets take for instance what Christ taught about the leadership of his church.

In Ephesians it is taught that" We are not more strangers but because we follow Christwe become fellow citizens with the Saints in the household of God" And are built upon the foudation of apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ being the Chief cornerstone".“And he gave some apostles and prophets and evangelists and some pastors and teachers. For the perfecting of the Saints” (Saint in those days were members of his church)"for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ. Till we all come inthe unity fo the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man, unto the mearsure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Which Church has apostles and prophets? Why were we to have apostles and prophets? How long were we to have apostles and prophets?

Since there were prophets before Christ, during the time of Christ and after the time of Christ, which church supports the continuation of bibilical history?

.
 
Apparently not. Because if CMatt was nominally Catholic, a dissenting Catholic, or even a non practicing Catholic, you would think on a forum called “Catholic Answers” that those words would appear in his religion profile. But as you can see they do not.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
You keep claiming that you are being abused. You are not. You keep being asked questions. You ignore them. You claim the Catholic Church used to permit polygamy. You say you have non-LDS sources. You should tell us what evidence you have.

If I said Mormons used to eat children you would expect me to back-up my claim with evidence. I can assure you that if I made such an outrageous claim I would certainly back it up.

To say that the Catholic Church used to permit polygamy goes beyond plain polemics. It is a serious accusation concerning something that is contrary to our faith. You should either withdraw the claim unreservedly or produce references to support it.
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Do you ever read what I have written. I said that I did not believe they did. What is it with you? I do not have the time nor the desire to answer everyones posts. So from now on if you have a post that I can get to, then I will answer… But stop with the accusations.
 
Porknpie said:
Fatboys -

IMHO, I think your explanation helps quite a bit. It would have been better to have had a little set up and asked a question rather than make what appeared to be a statement of fact. Catholics are appropriately guarded as the Book Of Mormon refers to the Catholic church as the whore of babylon and your prophets have said the same. This is a based on a “great apostasy” in the early church that no Mormon can document. Just the opposite, scripture and the early church fathers record that:
  1. the Church was being led by the Holy Spirit as Christ himself promised.
  2. The Bishops transferred their authority to one another by the laying on of hands (led by the Holy Spirit) without interruption.
  3. the Church membership grew greatly during this time period
  4. there was no apostasy mentioned, ever.
The Mormon church believes that a “great apostasy” occurred but offers no evidence. It’s a question of who do you believe? The Catholic Church based on both scripture and the early church fathers who’s writings are consistent and numerous (compendius actually) or Joseph Smith?
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Some members of the church may have said and believed this, but it was not doctrine of the church. Remember that under the name of Christ mormons were killed and driven from their homes… Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered several times, and as a result of one instance one of his children died from exposure. Understand that they were human and feelings of love were hard to give when you are being stompped to death by those who say they love you. In the book of mormon it states that the abominable church is those who fight against the church of the Lamb of God. It does not give specifics as to who could be except that there is a concerted effort to destroy it.
 
Fatboys said:
Not to be disrespectful, but I did get chuckle out of this. I did not know I was irrational or not reasonable.
.
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Yes, irrational; like the Mormon Church’s teaching on abortion, baptism, and apostolic succession for starters. They are just random thoughts which are irrational when taken as a whole or as facts of history. The Mormon Church just makes stuff up and it doesn’t have to be rational, historical or scientific; and most of it isn’t.
 
Fatboys said:
Do you ever read what I have written.
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Yes, thank you, I have.
Fatboys said:
I said that I did not believe they did. What is it with you? I do not have the time nor the desire to answer everyones posts. So from now on if you have a post that I can get to, then I will answer.
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It is the rest of us who have trouble keeping up. You say you are leaving the thread and come back. You keep changing what you say you believe. When did your belief change? Were you convinced by the truth revealed by the Catholic Church?
Fatboys said:
But stop with the accusations.
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What accusations? Please point them out or have the common courtesy to apologise.

Could you please advise me why you demand to be treated charitably but you, obviously, do not extend any towards other posters?
 
Fatboys said:
Some members of the church may have said and believed this, but it was not doctrine of the church. Remember that under the name of Christ mormons were killed and driven from their homes… Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered several times, and as a result of one instance one of his children died from exposure. Understand that they were human and feelings of love were hard to give when you are being stompped to death by those who say they love you. In the book of mormon it states that the abominable church is those who fight against the church of the Lamb of God. It does not give specifics as to who could be except that there is a concerted effort to destroy it.
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Fatboys, thank you for the response. Not to get sidetracked but trying to understand what is and is not doctrine in the Mormon Church is exceedingly difficult (as previous threads have discussed) and there are ex-Mormons on CAF who will refute what you said.

But that said,

What do you understand the evidence to be of a great apostasy?

Pork.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
Yes, thank you, I have.

It is the rest of us who have trouble keeping up. You say you are leaving the thread and come back. You keep changing what you say you believe. When did your belief change? Were you convinced by the truth revealed by the Catholic Church?

What accusations? Please point them out or have the common courtesy to apologise.

Could you please advise me why you demand to be treated charitably but you, obviously, do not extend any towards other posters?
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🍿🍿🍿
 
Yes you would be better to PM me if you need to know about my religious affiliation beyond what it says.
 
Fatboys said:
Remember that under the name of Christ mormons were killed and driven from their homes… Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered several times, and as a result of one instance one of his children died from exposure.
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The child died from measles.
 
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