Catholic practices that have no biblical basis

[AlNg]

it’s a discipline,

It was how the Son of God chose the first Pope, who was married. Why does not the Roman Catholic church follow the way Jesus chose the first Pope.? Since Jesus is God, should not His Way of choosing a married man have precedence? Jesus could have chosen someone who had never been married as the first Pope. But he did not.

 

[midori]

Jesus could have chosen someone who had never been married as the first Pope. But he did not.

Lots of Popes have been married.

Felix III was a widower.

Hormisdas was a widower.

Adrian II was married before he took Holy Orders, and his wife and daughter were alive when he did. They lived with him in the Lateran Palace in the 9th c.

John XVII was married before he was elected Pope, and all three of his sons became priests.

Clement IV was married before taking Holy Orders-- both his daughters entered a convent.

Honorius IV was married before taking Holy Orders, and widowed before he entered the clergy.

It’s a discipline, not a doctrine.

 

[JSRG]

Has anyone else noticed that that verse, where people turn away from Jesus due to a hard teaching, is John 6:66?
It might not mean anything, but I thought I’d point it out anyway…

It doesn’t mean anything. The Number of the Beast is six hundred and sixty-six–not three six’s. 6:66, 66:6, 66.6, 6.66, 6/6/6, etc. have no relation to the Number of the Beast.

Furthermore, the Number of the Beast is stated to be either the number of a man or the number of mankind, depending on how you translate it. Neither is an apt description for a Bible verse/chapter number, as it corresponds to neither of those things.

This post presumably was meant somewhat facetiously by you, but people so constantly try to find the Number of the Beast in places where it has no bearing that I feel the need to point out for people’s benefit what the number actually is. It’s six hundred and sixty six, not three six’s, and it corresponds (depending on translation) either to a man or mankind. Whatever someone identifies as being the Number must fit those requirements.

 

[AlNg]

Lots of Popes have been married.

Out of 266 Popes, how many were married?

It’s a discipline, not a doctrine.

If it is a discipline, and not a doctrine, and if lots and lots of Popes were married, then why was Patriarch Michael Cerularius and all of his followers (i.e. the Orthodox Church) excommunicated for allowing married priests? This was one of the reasons given for the excommunication of the Orthodox in the bull of 1054?
From the 1054 bull of excommunication:
“Like Nicolaitists, they allow and defend the carnal marriages of the ministers of the sacred altar;”

 

[Annie]

Like Nicolaitists, they allow and defend the carnal marriages of the ministers of the sacred altar;”

This sounds more like they were allowing ordained men to get married, not ordaining married men.

 

[Annie]

Maybe God has different priorities than we do? Maybe the fact that Peter had a mother-in-law was not an important aspect of why God chose Peter?

 

[AlNg]

Maybe the fact that Peter had a mother-in-law was not an important aspect of why God chose Peter?

Can you say the same thing about women not being chosen as priests? Maybe the fact that the apostles were not women was not an important aspect as to why God did not choose any women as apostles?

 

[Annie]

Can you say the same thing about women not being chosen as priests? Maybe the fact that the apostles were not women was not an important aspect as to why God did not choose any women as apostles?

What is the point of this?

 

[Zaccheus]

Has anyone else noticed that that verse, where people turn away from Jesus due to a hard teaching, is John 6:66?
It might not mean anything, but I thought I’d point it out anyway…

The custom of dividing Scripture into verses and numbering the verses did not begin until many hundreds of years after Christ. It was done to make it easier to find given passages, not because it had any meaning in itself.

 

[Zaccheus]

Catholic things that had no basis in scripture

Old ones :

1. making the pope head of a government and and king of the papal states

Not everything that was done comes direct from Scripture. That does not prove the Church was in defiance of Scripture. As has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread the custom of wedding rings does not come from Scripture, but that doesn’t make it wrong.
In any case we are free to have out opinions as to whether giving political authority or earthly rule to the Pope was a good or bad idea. Even if we conclude it was a bad idea that does not prove sola scriptura.

2 ) endulgances, the idea of going to a crusade and killing people would be a remission of sins death penalty to apostates, homosexual, heretics and blaphemers

( You kinda mess up when you imitating Islamic law and theology)

1. Mostly the Crusades were the Christian response to Jiihad. Islamic states were invading and conquering Christian states and forcing the inhabitants to convert to Islam.
   There were abuses, yes. Sometimes people went on Crusade out of ambition or even desire for loot. But for the most part we went on Crusade because Islam went on Jihad.
2. Are you suggesting we got the idea of Indulgences from Islam!?
3. “Go spend months on a dangerous painful journey, then risk your life in battle. You might be killed, maybe tortured to death by the Moslems. You might die of disease. Do this to save other Christians from being conquered, oppressed and persecuted by Islam. God will look favorably upon you and forgive you your previous sins.”
4. I’m not clear on what you mean by this bit: (death penalty to apostates, homosexual, heretics and blasphemers) The Crusades were not about searching out ‘apostates, homosexuals, and heretics’. The Crusaders cold have done that in their own lands if that was their goal. Crusades were about opposing Jihad.

 

[Zaccheus]

Paul’s speaking. And we know scripturally that Paul wasn’t married at the time of 1 Corinthians, because he just got finished telling us that two chapters earlier. So why is he asking about his right to take along a believing wife, if he’s a single guy? Wouldn’t it be more realistic that he’s talking about not shooing away devout women who wished to follow Paul, as we know were in the habit of following Jesus?

Or he’s speaking of how he wasn’t asserting his rights, and mentioned this as one of the rights he didn’t insist on claiming. The fact that he didn’t have a wife was beside the point. He could have had one and could have insisted on having her come with him on his missionary journeys.

 

[historyfan81]

1. debatable, IAM not arguing for sola scriptura
   But even then the witting of the apostolic church father’s never mention or hint at the bishop of Rome having political power

Simply put it was a very bad idea since the pope became worried about material things and political power .

1. debatable in the long scheme the crusades where an absolute failure
   Not only did they no stop Islam they helped spread by weakening the Byzantine empire
2. no, I suggest the idea on going to a crusade and jihad are similar
3. we can say the exact same to justify the Muslim side

1. “Go spend months on a dangerous painful journey, then risk your life in battle. You might be killed, maybe tortured to death by the chirstians

. You might die of disease. Do this to save other Muslims from being conquered, oppressed and persecuted by the chirstians. God will look favorably upon you and forgive you your previous sins.”

And yes mate god will look favorably upon me ,when I
A) commit massacres aginast jews Muslims and fellow chirstians.
B) break my oaths and lying
C) looting ( stealing)

1. no , this is more to do with laws back in Europe during this time homosexual apostates blasphemers where giving the death penalty

 

[TheLittleLady]

Come visit sometime. My very much married pastor will take you to lunch to meet our very married retired associate pastor.

There are married Catholic priests in the US, fewer than 200, but they exist!

 

[Zaccheus]

And yes mate god will look favorably upon me ,when I
A) commit massacres aginast jews Muslims and fellow chirstians.
B) break my oaths and lying
C) looting ( stealing)

These were abuses that happened during Crusades. They in no way refute my point that the original purpose of Crusades was to defend Christian kingdoms against Jihad.

And yes, Muslim leaders could say things like that to their own faithful. In no way does that disprove my point.

 

[historyfan81]

In theory many things can sound quite good

In paper the crusades sound ok especially the ruetun back the lands since the crusaders had no claim to them , since it was Byzantine land and defending pilgrims

But in practice
They never gave the land back and sometimes killed chirstians of the area
( That was the whole point of the crusade)

Now IAM not picking a side or saying poor Muslims , both sides chirstian and Muslims where just as brutal as each other.

And yes mate it does take from your point it was a response to jihad via a chirstian “jihad”

 

[Pai_Nosso]

“You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions” Mark 7: 8 (NIV)

There is a lot of talk about tradition. This is what the son of God says about human traditions.

"And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
“This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven," etc. Matthew 6: 7-13 (NIV)

Jesus told us how to pray and how not to pray. He told us not to babble on (rosary) and to pray to our father. He doesn’t tell us to pray to anyone else. We are told to ask others to pray for us but we are never told to pray to saints as communicating with the dead is a whole other situation.

 

[AlbMagno]

He told us not to babble on (rosary)

The Rosary isn’t babbling, this is a very common misconception. The Rosary is a meditative prayer, you are supposed to concentrate on the mysteries while praying, the Hail Mary’s are just to give focus and structure to the prayer.

 

[Fauken]

He told us not to babble on (rosary)

Not to mention that the rosary also uses the Our Father along with the Hail Marys.

 

[adf417]

Not to mention that the rosary also uses the Our Father along with the Hail Marys.

I wonder how long we must go between Our Father prayers to not be considered repetitive or babbling by others?

 

[AlNg]

There are married Catholic priests in the US, fewer than 200, but they exist!

Mostly converts who had been married ministers before becoming Catholic? Why not allow Catholic married deacons to be ordained as priests? Or allow Catholic seminarians to be married? Celibacy is still the norm for them, is it not?

Come visit sometime.

Where would that be? Is it an Eastern rite church?

One Pope, Alexander VI, had, by common law, several wives (mistresses?). He had children by Vannozza del Cattanei and Giula Farnese and as well had other children Girolama, Isabella, Pedro-Luiz, and Bernardo, by other women.