Catholic Priest Invites Gang of 18 To Leave Church

[Brendan]

I will never understand why it gets a ‘hooray’ when any priest or bishop publically cuts off someone from the Body of Christ.

First of all, I have heard of no bishop cutting someone off from the Body of Christ.

What I have heard is bishops publically recognizing when a sinner has cut themselves off from the Body.

It is a sad occasion when a sinner does such a thing.

It would be equally sad, if not greater, for a bishop to commit a lie of ommission but not stating what is True.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The only adequate solution is for the Holy Father and the bishops publicly to excommunicate by name all Catholic legislators who support the legalized killing of unborn children.

The failure to issue such excommunications from the pontificate of Pope Paul VI on is one of the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. No Catholic should even *think *of attempting to justify this failure. If abortion is murder, then this refusal to excommunicate is indefensible. Period.

As Pope John Paul II taught in section 58 of the 1995 encyclical Evangelium vitae, abortion is murder.

As Catholics, we must have the lucidity and the courage to confront all these realities unflinchingly.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[bones_IV]

The only adequate solution is for the Holy Father and the bishops publicly to excommunicate by name all Catholic legislators who support the legalized killing of unborn children.

The failure to issue such excommunications from the pontificate of Pope Paul VI on is one of the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. No Catholic should even *think *of attempting to justify this failure. If abortion is murder, then this refusal to excommunicate is indefensible. Period.

As Pope John Paul II taught in section 58 of the 1995 encyclical Evangelium vitae, abortion is murder.

As Catholics, we must have the lucidity and the courage to confront all these realities unflinchingly.

Keep and spread the Faith.

The primary responsibility lies with the bishop not with the Pope.

 

[MJE]

Who are the 18? Can someone give me a link w/ their names? thanks.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The primary responsibility lies with the bishop not with the Pope.

By refusing to excommunicate by name Catholic legislators who support the legalized murder of the unborn, the bishops are failing to live up to their responsibilities and giving scandal. For those reasons, it is the duty of the Holy Father to admonish the bishops. This papal action would be in accord with the words of Our Lord in Lk 22:31-32:

"Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[bones_IV]

By refusing to excommunicate by name Catholic legislators who support the legalized murder of the unborn, the bishops are failing to live up to their responsibilities and giving scandal. For those reasons, it is the duty of the Holy Father to admonish the bishops. This papal action would be in accord with the words of Our Lord in Lk 22:31-32:

"Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."

Keep and spread the Faith.

The Pope doesn’t have a mind control. Your ignorance is showing. John Paul II spoke very highly of Paul VI. Even Benedict XVI spoke highly of John Paul II.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The Pope doesn’t have a mind control.

“Mind control” is not the issue.

The Pope has the obligation to use his authority as the Vicar of Christ to prevent bishops from endangering the lives, both natural and supernatural, of unborn children.

The Holy Father also has the obligation to eradicate scandal in the Church. The refusal of the bishops to excommunicate politicians who support legalized abortion is one of the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. That conclusion can logically be contradicted only by someone who refuses to acknowledge that abortion is murder.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[bones_IV]

“Mind control” is not the issue.

The Pope has the obligation to use his authority as the Vicar of Christ to prevent bishops from endangering the lives, both natural and supernatural, of unborn children.

The Holy Father also has the obligation to eradicate scandal in the Church. The refusal of the bishops to excommunicate politicians who support legalized abortion is one of the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. That conclusion can logically be contradicted only by someone who refuses to acknowledge that abortion is murder.

Keep and spread the Faith.

** Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 04-21-2005:** It is the ***responsibility ***of the diocesan bishop (or his vicars) to inform individuals that they have committed the delict of heresy and have incurred excommunication. You have the right to inform the local bishop of the fact of heresy if you have witnessed it.

Don’t blame the Pope.

 

[childofmary1143]

** Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 04-21-2005:** It is the ***responsibility ***of the diocesan bishop (or his vicars) to inform individuals that they have committed the delict of heresy and have incurred excommunication. You have the right to inform the local bishop of the fact of heresy if you have witnessed it.

Don’t blame the Pope.

I can’t speak for Steve O’Brien but there is a concept that must be mentioned and that is fraternal correction. Nothing that you have posted has refuted what Steve has said.

 

[bones_IV]

I can’t speak for Steve O’Brien but there is a concept that must be mentioned and that is fraternal correction. Nothing that you have posted has refuted what Steve has said.

Here’s what Judie Brown has to say:

“Pope Benedict’s comments on pro-abortion politicians are simply a reflection of the longstanding Catholic truth that we’ve been pointing out for years,” said American Life League president Judie Brown. “The long and short of it is quite simple: You can’t be Catholic and pro-abortion.”
On his way to a pastoral visit to Brazil, Pope Benedict XVI told reporters that according to the Catholic Church’s canon law, “the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving Communion, which is receiving the body of Christ.” He added that this standard “expresses our appreciation for life and that human individuality, human personality is present from the first moment” of every human being’s life.
The pontiff was responding to questions about Mexican bishops, who stated that Catholic political leaders who support Mexico City’s new law that permits abortion would be automatically excommunicated from the Church. Pope Benedict said the bishops “did nothing new, surprising or arbitrary. They simply announced publicly what is contained in the law of the Church.”
“We welcome his statements with a great feeling of appreciation,” said Mrs. Brown, "particularly his explanation that those who vote in favor of abortion have ‘doubts about the value of life and the beauty of life and even a doubt about the future.’ These expressions certainly apply to those in political life in the United States as well.”
Pope Benedict reiterated that life is a gift from God. “It is not a commodity,” Mrs. Brown said. “It is not a burden. It is not a negative. Every human being from his beginning is a sign of God’s love for mankind. We thank the Holy Father for his leadership and wish him every success during his visit to Brazil, another country whose preborn citizens are under attack by politicians who claim to be faithful Catholics.”

Link%between%

 

[Brendan]

** Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 04-21-2005:** It is the ***responsibility ***of the diocesan bishop (or his vicars) to inform individuals that they have committed the delict of heresy and have incurred excommunication. You have the right to inform the local bishop of the fact of heresy if you have witnessed it.

Don’t blame the Pope.

So, in other words, the Pope, under his universal Authority, can excommunicate the politicians, and under this rule, the bishops are then required to inform the polictios that they are now excommunicated.

Sounds fine to me.

 

[KathleenElsie]

So, in other words, the Pope, under his universal Authority, can excommunicate the politicians, and under this rule, the bishops are then required to inform the polictios that they are now excommunicated.

Sounds fine to me.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Here’s what Judie Brown has to say:

“Pope Benedict’s comments on pro-abortion politicians are simply a reflection of the longstanding Catholic truth that we’ve been pointing out for years,” said American Life League president Judie Brown. “The long and short of it is quite simple: You can’t be Catholic and pro-abortion.”
On his way to a pastoral visit to Brazil, Pope Benedict XVI told reporters that according to the Catholic Church’s canon law, “the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving Communion, which is receiving the body of Christ.” He added that this standard “expresses our appreciation for life and that human individuality, human personality is present from the first moment” of every human being’s life.
The pontiff was responding to questions about Mexican bishops, who stated that Catholic political leaders who support Mexico City’s new law that permits abortion would be automatically excommunicated from the Church. Pope Benedict said the bishops “did nothing new, surprising or arbitrary. They simply announced publicly what is contained in the law of the Church.”
“We welcome his statements with a great feeling of appreciation,” said Mrs. Brown, "particularly his explanation that those who vote in favor of abortion have ‘doubts about the value of life and the beauty of life and even a doubt about the future.’ These expressions certainly apply to those in political life in the United States as well.”
Pope Benedict reiterated that life is a gift from God. “It is not a commodity,” Mrs. Brown said. “It is not a burden. It is not a negative. Every human being from his beginning is a sign of God’s love for mankind. We thank the Holy Father for his leadership and wish him every success during his visit to Brazil, another country whose preborn citizens are under attack by politicians who claim to be faithful Catholics.”
Link

If women’s ordination weren’t theologically impossible, Judie Brown would have to be named to the College of Cardinals–as I’ve had the pleasure of telling her in e-mails. Still, I deeply regret to say that Mrs. Brown, like many other admirably solid Catholics, is living in emotional denial.

This emotional denial–an utterly understandable, but utterly indefensible denial–is the refusal to acknowledge that Pope Benedict XVI, like Popes Paul VI and John Paul II, has no intention of taking effective governing and disciplinary action to end the horrific post-Vatican II crisis still raging in the human dimensions of the one true Church. Specifically, our Holy Father has no intention of urging bishops to excommunicate by name legislators who support the legalized murder of the unborn.

Whatever the Holy Father meant by his somewhat confused extemporaneous remarks on the airplane taking him to Brazil, he promptly retracted those remarks through his media spokeman, Father Federico Lombardi. Please see Alejandro Bermúdez’s report entitled “Politicians and Communion” in the May 20, 2007, issue of National Catholic Register:

"In a statement released with the notification that it was ‘approved by the Pope himself,’ Father Lombardi said, ‘The Pope did not intend to declare the excommunication of the Mexican politicians. Rather, the Holy Father was saying that these politicians had broken from communion with the Church, and should not receive the Eucharist’" (page 12).

In other words, politicians supporting abortion should voluntarily decide on their own to refrain from receiving Holy Communion. The Pope, however, does not intend to ensure that they refrain from receiving the Eucharist by urging the bishops to excommunicate them publicly and by name, which would force the bishops to see that those politicians are denied the Eucharist.

The bottom line is this: any Catholic politician who endorses the mass murder of the unborn can continue to receive Holy Communion.

I do not understand how the non-excommunication of those politicians and their continued reception of Holy Communion–accompanied by papal and episcopal inaction–are not among the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. Those phenomena are not horrendous scandals only if abortion is not murder.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[bones_IV]

If women’s ordination weren’t theologically impossible, Judie Brown would have to be named to the College of Cardinals–as I’ve had the pleasure of telling her in e-mails. Still, I deeply regret to say that Mrs. Brown, like many other admirably solid Catholics, is living in emotional denial.

This emotional denial–an utterly understandable, but utterly indefensible denial–is the refusal to acknowledge that Pope Benedict XVI, like Popes Paul VI and John Paul II, has no intention of taking effective governing and disciplinary action to end the horrific post-Vatican II crisis still raging in the human dimensions of the one true Church. Specifically, our Holy Father has no intention of urging bishops to excommunicate by name legislators who support the legalized murder of the unborn.

Whatever the Holy Father meant by his somewhat confused extemporaneous remarks on the airplane taking him to Brazil, he promptly retracted those remarks through his media spokeman, Father Federico Lombardi. Please see Alejandro Bermúdez’s report entitled “Politicians and Communion” in the May 20, 2007, issue of National Catholic Register:

"In a statement released with the notification that it was ‘approved by the Pope himself,’ Father Lombardi said, ‘The Pope did not intend to declare the excommunication of the Mexican politicians. Rather, the Holy Father was saying that these politicians had broken from communion with the Church, and should not receive the Eucharist’" (page 12).

In other words, politicians supporting abortion should voluntarily decide on their own to refrain from receiving Holy Communion. The Pope, however, does not intend to ensure that they refrain from receiving the Eucharist by urging the bishops to excommunicate them publicly and by name, which would force the bishops to see that those politicians are denied the Eucharist.

The bottom line is this: any Catholic politician who endorses the mass murder of the unborn can continue to receive Holy Communion.

I do not understand how the non-excommunication of those politicians and their continued reception of Holy Communion–accompanied by papal and episcopal inaction–are not among the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. Those phenomena are not horrendous scandals only if abortion is not murder.

Keep and spread the Faith.

Steve,
The Pope, like any other human being, cannot CONTROL the actions of others. While he can guide, he cannot dictate. The situation in the Vatican is problematic but let us not forget that the Pope’s mission is to teach the truth, not micromanage bureaucrats.

 

[Franciscan]

If women’s ordination weren’t theologically impossible, Judie Brown would have to be named to the College of Cardinals–as I’ve had the pleasure of telling her in e-mails. Still, I deeply regret to say that Mrs. Brown, like many other admirably solid Catholics, is living in emotional denial.

This emotional denial–an utterly understandable, but utterly indefensible denial–is the refusal to acknowledge that Pope Benedict XVI, like Popes Paul VI and John Paul II, has no intention of taking effective governing and disciplinary action to end the horrific post-Vatican II crisis still raging in the human dimensions of the one true Church. Specifically, our Holy Father has no intention of urging bishops to excommunicate by name legislators who support the legalized murder of the unborn.

Whatever the Holy Father meant by his somewhat confused extemporaneous remarks on the airplane taking him to Brazil, he promptly retracted those remarks through his media spokeman, Father Federico Lombardi. Please see Alejandro Bermúdez’s report entitled “Politicians and Communion” in the May 20, 2007, issue of National Catholic Register:

"In a statement released with the notification that it was ‘approved by the Pope himself,’ Father Lombardi said, ‘The Pope did not intend to declare the excommunication of the Mexican politicians. Rather, the Holy Father was saying that these politicians had broken from communion with the Church, and should not receive the Eucharist’" (page 12).

In other words, politicians supporting abortion should voluntarily decide on their own to refrain from receiving Holy Communion. The Pope, however, does not intend to ensure that they refrain from receiving the Eucharist by urging the bishops to excommunicate them publicly and by name, which would force the bishops to see that those politicians are denied the Eucharist.

The bottom line is this: any Catholic politician who endorses the mass murder of the unborn can continue to receive Holy Communion.

I do not understand how the non-excommunication of those politicians and their continued reception of Holy Communion–accompanied by papal and episcopal inaction–are not among the worst scandals in the entire history of the Catholic Church. Those phenomena are not horrendous scandals only if abortion is not murder.

Keep and spread the Faith.

Steve, I hate to say it but you’re right.Anyone with some knowledge of church history will see that it’s not unprecedented for a Pope to “micro-manage” and personally excommunicate political leaders or anyone else who presents an ongoing scandal.

“Enough is enough, lay it all on the line, dont hold back–please Holy Father.”

 

[bones_IV]

Steve, I hate to say it but you’re right.Anyone with some knowledge of church history will see that it’s not unprecedented for a Pope to “micro-manage” and personally excommunicate political leaders or anyone else who presents an ongoing scandal.

“Enough is enough, lay it all on the line, dont hold back–please Holy Father.”

We certainly cannot defend the inaction from the hierarchy regarding pro-abortion politicians who claim themselves to be Catholic and Pro-life. Despair has no place in your faith life, no need to be sad.

 

[Franciscan]

We certainly cannot defend the inaction from the hierarchy regarding pro-abortion politicians who claim themselves to be Catholic and Pro-life. Despair has no place in your faith life, no need to be sad.

I have hope. I think the Holy spirit intalled this pope because he was the best chance the Church had to recover the integrity of the Faith. But it hasn’t happened yet.

I was just taliking to my wife and she made a good point-that his first instinct, his initial response was yes to excommunication(guided by Holy Spirit). Then later his advisors got to him and he retracted. So I think he needs to fire those Vatican spokespeople who are revising and retracting that initial Spirit guided response of truth.
Did Peter and the twelve go around and tell the people, “What Jesus really meant to say was the road to hell not that wide” etc.

 

[bones_IV]

I have hope. I think the Holy spirit intalled this pope because he was the best chance the Church had to recover the integrity of the Faith. But it hasn’t happened yet.

I was just taliking to my wife and she made a good point-that his first instinct, his initial response was yes to excommunication(guided by Holy Spirit). Then later his advisors got to him and he retracted. So I think he needs to fire those Vatican spokespeople who are revising and retracting that initial Spirit guided response of truth.
Did Peter and the twelve go around and tell the people, “What Jesus really meant to say was the road to hell not that wide” etc.

The pope didn’t retract any of his remarks. The Holy Father is not the Bishop or Archbishop or Cardinal! He doesn’t have control over those in the Vatican. And if he does I’ll let you know. Catholic people like and I have learned this, and we pray that bishops and priests ultimately learn it as well and then act on it. There is a precedent. Bishop Leo Maher publicly excommunicated a pro-abortion politician several years ago. He did not receive support from any of his fellow Bishops.

 

[Genesis315]

I will never understand why it gets a ‘hooray’ when any priest or bishop publically cuts off someone from the Body of Christ.

We’re a church that welcomes saints and sinners…even the obstinate ones. That’s the pastoral sensitivity of Christ.

It’s frightening that folks have this orthodoxy litmus test which seems to call on clergy to put their own flock out to pasture.

While I agree that “hooray” might not be the best response, it is fine to acknowledge and even praise our pastors when they do something that is pastorally correct. Sometimes it is best for both the faithful and the obstinate public sinner that that person be cut-off. First Corinthians, chapter 5, deals with this issue.

 

[bones_IV]

Frommi,

Section 2272 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
“Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.”