Catholic royals won't have to raise kids Catholic [CNAU]

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What:eek: They should have to follow the rules like the rest of us.
 
CarolNoel said:
What:eek: They should have to follow the rules like the rest of us.
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That rule has never been an absolute. I believe the US text is something like “you have to, to the best of your ability, try to raise your child in the Catholic church.” or something like that, whatever the text actually is there is a bit of give in there.
 
nhylan said:
That rule has never been an absolute. I believe the US text is something like “you have to, to the best of your ability, try to raise your child in the Catholic church.” or something like that, whatever the text actually is there is a bit of give in there.
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Which is essentially the “rule” here, but I think the priest’s explanation is very confusing and gives off a very different undertone…
 
I think one and the same Catechism should apply to royals and peasants alike.
 
But there’s a chance that the kid who comes from such a union could be the head monarch in like, 70 years from now. The head monarch, whatever gender they are, is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Scotland.
 
VanSensei said:
But there’s a chance that the kid who comes from such a union could be the head monarch in like, 70 years from now. The head monarch, whatever gender they are, is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Scotland.
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yikes, a Catholic being that
 
Since When Is Abandoning The Faith Pastoral?

creativeminorityreport.com/2013/04/since-when-is-abandoning-faith-pastoral.html
Archbishop Nichols, the same bishop who so recently decried as un-Catholic bloggers who complain, says that allowing your children to not be raised Catholic is the ‘pastoral’ thing to do. Well, guess what? I have some complaining to do.
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If it is permissible to allow your children to be brought up in another faith, the faith is dead in England and Wales. This is absolutely absurd and profoundly un-Catholic.
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2225 Through the grace of the sacrament of marriage, parents receive the responsibility and privilege of evangelizing their children. Parents should initiate their children at an early age into the mysteries of the faith of which they are the “first heralds” for their children. They should associate them from their tenderest years with the life of the Church.34 A wholesome family life can foster interior dispositions that are a genuine preparation for a living faith and remain a support for it throughout one’s life.
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2226 Education in the faith by the parents should begin in the child’s earliest years. This already happens when family members help one another to grow in faith by the witness of a Christian life in keeping with the Gospel. Family catechesis precedes, accompanies, and enriches other forms of instruction in the faith. Parents have the mission of teaching their children to pray and to discover their vocation as children of God.35 The parish is the Eucharistic community and the heart of the liturgical life of Christian families; it is a privileged place for the catechesis of children and parents.
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Aiding and abetting apostasy is now considered pastoral?
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Who needs shepherds who feed the littlest lambs to the wolves?
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This.
 
Yeah, I’m not sure how being Catholic, Anglican and Presbyterian would work. That would be confusing.
 
Rence said:
Exactly. We wouldn’t like it if the Pope was Protestant, right?
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Ehm, well, that’s impossible, but it would be very strange indeed for there to be a Catholic Monarch governing the Church of England.
 
Slow down folks. I think that some people may have read the article too quickly. Look at what he said.
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“In this context the Catholic Church expects Catholic spouses to sincerely undertake to do all that they can to raise children in the Catholic Church,” he continued. “Where it has not been possible for the child of a mixed marriage to be brought up as a Catholic, the Catholic parent does not fall subject to the censure of canon law.”**

This is not new. This has been a long standing tradition in Church law. You cannot be penalized for something that is not possible for you to do.

It has long been a practice of the Catholic Church to recognize that in the cases of royals there are complications that are often beyond the control of the couple, such complications can include national laws and/or customs. Certainly custom and law is the case in the UK. The monarch must be Anglican. In that case, the Catholic parent has no legal recourse. If his child is Catholic, he forfeits the throne.

The problem here is that the article is quoting the Msgr and His Lordship. The writer is inserting comments in between. Unless one reads very carefully, one misses who said what. I had to go back and read it with a highlighter. I highlighted what the Msgr said in order to separate it from the rest of the text.

They’re not giving a blanket permission for people not to raise their children Catholic. What they’re doing is answering a question. My guess is that the question is quite concrete. Given that a royal can marry a Catholic and given that the monarch must be the head of the Church of England, what happens if one parent is Catholic? Does the child have to be Catholic? If that’s the case, then the child would forfeit the throne, because neither civil law nor ecclesial law allows for a Catholic to be the head of the Church of England. The other option would be for the law to change and separate the monarch from the head of the Anglican Church. That’s not likely to happen anytime soon.

This is a real issue that a Catholic royal has to face and one that is out of his or her control. The royal has no voice over Parliament. The pastoral approach involves understanding the predicament of the royal parent and finding a way to apply canon law fairly. The fairest thing to do is to follow tradition. The Church does not penalize those who through no fault of their own cannot comply with the law.

They’re not making up new laws. They simply explaining the legal tradition of the Church. It’'s not their fault that the writer of the article chopped up everyone’s statements so that it’s hard to sort out who’s speaking.
 
JReducation said:
This is a real issue that a Catholic royal has to face and one that is out of his or her control. The royal has no voice over Parliament. The pastoral approach involves understanding the predicament of the royal parent and finding a way to apply canon law fairly. The fairest thing to do is to follow tradition. The Church does not penalize those who through no fault of their own cannot comply with the law.
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Thank you for this because I was this close to jumping on the bandwagon. This makes sense. Imagine being that Catholic parent. Having said that, as a Catholic, I wouldn’t marry outside of my faith to begin with because of this issue (and lots of others).
 
This is not a situation where someone is truly unable to comply with Church law. In a scenario where someone was going to be killed, a family member hurt, their kids taken away from them, etc. that would be true. And to be fair, given the history in the UK, that might have been the case at one time. This however, is a situation where if someone is being told that it is OK to not raise their kids in the truth Church, where they will have valid sacraments and a true priesthood, so that they can be in line for some sort of earthly office. In essence, assuming Brother JR’s interpretation is correct, they are being told by Catholic bishops that it is OK to choose an earthly kingdom over the Heavenly kingdom for their children.

Call me crazy, but I still have a problem with that.
 
JReducation said:
This is not new. This has been a long standing tradition in Church law.
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Ave Marie, Brother.

Brother, can you show me sources for this claim please? From my (rather limited) knowledge of history, where this has been the case it has always been a scandal.

Nobody is putting a gun to people’s heads here forcing marriage. As the user above me said, it’s putting the earthly kingdom above the Heavenly. The poor child will be brought up at best indifferent to Catholicism - after all it can’t matter too much to be Catholic since he was allowed to be brought up outside the Church - or at worst positively anti-Catholic for whatever reason. Either way, it’s allowing the child to have small to little chance of salvation. A situation that could be easily remedied. To my mind this isn’t pastoral at all. It’s favouring the couple who wish to have no hurdles to their love; but it isn’t favouring the parents or the children in the long run when it comes to eternal salvation. Either way you’re testing God it seems (if God wanted it He’ll convert them kind of thing). Leaving it up to chance is the fools way of securing salvation. Hoping ever-so-hard that the kids will become devout Catholics after an upbringing where they aren’t allowed to be formed in the Church and then discovering at a later age that mommy and daddy got permission not to raise their kiddies as Catholics is sending only the worst kind of message.
 
jwinch2 said:
This is not a situation where someone is truly unable to comply with Church law. In a scenario where someone was going to be killed, a family member hurt, their kids taken away from them, etc. that would be true. And to be fair, given the history in the UK, that might have been the case at one time. This however, is a situation where if someone is being told that it is OK to not raise their kids in the truth Church, where they will have valid sacraments and a true priesthood, so that they can be in line for some sort of earthly office. In essence, assuming Brother JR’s interpretation is correct, they are being told by Catholic bishops that it is OK to choose an earthly kingdom over the Heavenly kingdom for their children.

Call me crazy, but I still have a problem with that.
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I think what is being said is that the Catholic parent still has an obligation to do their best, no?
 
jwinch2 said:
This is not a situation where someone is truly unable to comply with Church law. In a scenario where someone was going to be killed, a family member hurt, their kids taken away from them, etc. that would be true. And to be fair, given the history in the UK, that might have been the case at one time. This however, is a situation where if someone is being told that it is OK to not raise their kids in the truth Church, where they will have valid sacraments and a true priesthood, so that they can be in line for some sort of earthly office. In essence, assuming Brother JR’s interpretation is correct, they are being told by Catholic bishops that it is OK to choose an earthly kingdom over the Heavenly kingdom for their children.

Call me crazy, but I still have a problem with that.
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I think we all have a problem with something or another that the Church teaches. Just like anything else, we have to accept the teaching, or not. The Church recognizes that a person married to a monarch can’t take away their child’s birthright, or a country’s potential heir. This situation is governed by the country’s law. Give to Caesar. It’s something beyond their control. I realize it might be hard for you to understand, but understand you are not a monarch, or an earthly prince. So of course, the situation is not acceptable to you. Thankfully you and I don’t have to worry about these concerns. Remember, if it’s God’s will that a child be Catholic, he/she will be later. But that would be their choice to reject their birthright. Still a parent isn’t going to take their birthright from them, nor a country’s potential heir.
 
jwinch2 said:
Do their best how? I’m not sure I am grasping your meaning.
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I guess what I am envisioning is two parents at odds on how to bring up their child (just like you see in a non-royal family). Although the Catholic parent may want to bring that child up Catholic, he/she gets flack from their spouse. This seriously makes it difficult to follow through. The Catholic parent still has an obligation to influence the child, but the Church understands that he/she has hurdles.

Is this what is being said here or is it different?
 
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