Catholic Santorum winning the South ... our next Prez ?

[LovePatience]

Yes Oldcelt. Ishii is correct. 62Joy was responsible for the brilliancy of the post I praised. She was responding to an earlier one by Ishii and I think maybe the way she quoted him in hers made it appear Ishii wrote hers when I hit my quote icon. Or for whatever reason it appeared Ishii wrote it. But all I did was hit my quote icon.

Nevertheless indeed may God bless Ishii too.

However Ishii, if you think 62Joy wrote to support “pro abortion, anti catholic policies”, you truly missed what she was saying. She did a great job discussing real aspects of the abortion issue imo. And superbly explained life and moral issues affecting the family, children, the sick, the homeless.

Again my :tiphat: to 62Joy.

I heard Obama say tonight in Atlanta he welcomes a debate on values. And I’d say bring it on to whoever his opponent turns out to be.

Some people seem to think that abortion can be ended without also ending poverty and divisions in this country. If that is possible, we’ll be the very first in the world. The only pro-life countries in existence care for their underpriveleged better than we do.

Malta has near zero percent. Ireland has around 5%. Not only does Ireland have a low rate, the Irish write about visiting the United States and seeing poverty in Mississippi and say they have nothing like we have. irish.typepad.com/irisheyes/2005/07/irish_poverty.html

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

What mortgage? If you live in one of the 26 states that require judicial review for a foreclosure you could have stopped paying years ago and still have years to go before the sheriff boots you.

Wow! Peggy Joseph was right! Obama did spread the wealth around! Maybe that explains why my life under Obama isn’t getting any better. Maybe I should just not pay my bills. It’s my mistake for trying to do things the old fashioned way.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Some people seem to think that abortion can be ended without also ending poverty and divisions in this country. If that is possible, we’ll be the very first in the world. The only pro-life countries in existence care for their underpriveleged better than we do.

Malta has near zero percent. Ireland has around 5%. Not only does Ireland have a low rate, the Irish write about visiting the United States and seeing poverty in Mississippi and say they have nothing like we have. irish.typepad.com/irisheyes/2005/07/irish_poverty.html

Even if you could reduce poverty, you would also have to reduce immorality, and we are quickly headed in the wrong direction when it comes to morality.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Some people seem to think that abortion can be ended without also ending poverty and divisions in this country. If that is possible, we’ll be the very first in the world. The only pro-life countries in existence care for their underpriveleged better than we do.

Malta has near zero percent. Ireland has around 5%. Not only does Ireland have a low rate, the Irish write about visiting the United States and seeing poverty in Mississippi and say they have nothing like we have. irish.typepad.com/irisheyes/2005/07/irish_poverty.html

Neither abortion nor poverty will ever end.

In any society, there should be no road to seek an abortion but there should be a road for everyone to seek a better life.

No matter what you do, some people will remain poor for whatever reason. You can not motivate everyone to improve their lifestyle.

I try day in and day out to think of ways to improve my financial situation just to create a buffer zone so I can continue to provide for my children. The few eggs I have are in the one small basket I have.

So far, the only thing I’ve come up with is to just keep working hard and plugging away at what I do. I’ve got some small business ideas of my own, but I don’t think this area is quite able to sustain them just yet.

I know some in this area who would run you off their dilapidated porch with a shotgun if you showed up offering free government help. And some that soak it up like a sponge.

 

[ishii]

Perhaps, but your analysis was excellent.

Oh, I get it - the poster made it look like I was the one posting the liberal arguments for abortion. You either understand that, or are making a joke of some kind - hard to imagine joking about abortion.

I’m of the opinion that, try, though we will, abortion is a terrible fact…and I see nothing that will stop it, save the changing of hearts and minds.

You could also, based on your logic, say: “I’m of the opinion that, try, though we will, rape is a terrible fact…and I see nothing that will stop it, save the changing of hearts and minds. So let’s make it legal.” In other words, liberalism is a mental disorder.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Here is what I think 62Joy was trying to do:

What was it about Palin did you not like? What did you think about her committment to pro-life values, for example?

 I could not vote for her because  , in my opinion....a terrible thing to do for the country.

I’ve said before that i don’t feel this big effort to overturn Roe vs. Wade will happened - and if it did- it still would not end abortion. The past is proof of that. And I feel that the whole abortion issue could be better addressed by dealing with the reasons woman have abortions, dealing with the adoption laws and using a positive campaign to make adoption the preferred method of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. It would decrease the number of abortions - but that is not what the Pro-Life leadership seems to care about. It seems to be overturn the law or nothing. I am more interested in trying to decrease the numbers of babies aborted not spin my wheels politically.

I believe the GOP uses abortion as a political tool but see little evidence from their votes and bills that their solutions are “pro-family” at all. Not wanting to extend unemployment benefits to people during a recession - for example. Their opposition to having home mortgages renegotiated so that people would not loose their homes …did not strike me as 'pro-family". Their attack on public education in states like Wis. does not seem pro-children to me. I’m sorry, but people in office who claim to be pro-life and don’t care about children after birth…are just hypocrites in my eyes.

My question to you is, If ]Roe vs. Wade is overturned and all those unwanted children are born…what responsibility is the GOP going to take to ensure they have good homes? Food? Education? Are not abused by parents who did not want them? All this talk on the right about personal responsibilty and “food stamp Moms” makes me wonder how much they would help these children.

Just the fact that the GOP is against any kind of 'government mandated" program for health care - makes me concerned that these children will not have adequate health care. I don’t hear any screaming from any of the candidates about “children living in poverty in our own country” I do intakes for an agency that deals with families in need. Do you have any idea how many parents come in because they and their kids are living in cars, motels or just need food? Or can;‘t pay for a prescription? Obama’ bill makes sure they will have health care coverage. . And it upsets me that many states again like WIS now cutting school lunch programs - how is that “pro-children”.

The answer is not to put the government in control of healthcare. A healthy 22 year old has to pay for coverage he doesn’t need. Its one size fits all. There is inefficiency and increased costs. And you want the federal government to take over??? Name one program the federal government has ran efficiently and cut costs. You also need to look at the malpractice tort lawyers too - they help keep healthcare costs high, yet you let them off the hook. Why?

No- health care is too high in large part because of greed.Greedy drug companies - greedy insurance companies. I lived in Canada for five years and can tell you that despite what you hear about their system. It is a great system. It has problems, of course, but rationed healthcare is not one of them. If you have a problem that is serious you get seen right away. if it is not serious - you make an appointment. They triage there just like most emergency rooms here. Also all those Canadians coming over here for health care is simply exagerated. My friends in Canada say they have a problem with Americans going across the border and they don’t want to pay for them. . I agree that tort reform is part of the solution - just not the whole solution.

Here is a question for you: Do you think it is morally okay that insurance companies in the US hire doctors to help them find loopholes so they can drop people off of their insurance plans when they get sick? Or, when someone has a long term problem, to raise their rates so high they know they will have no choice but to drop the insurance? I see those kinds of things as right to life issues as well. Where is the outrage?

I wonder did you really think about it? Your whole post seems unreasonable - you give nothing more than a simplistic strawman caricature of what the conservatives and the GOP stand for and are offering and then you regard that as “much thought” ?

It was a hard decision to vote for Obama because of the pro-life issue. But I did vote for him, because he was going to do somehting about the health care system - especailly getting rid of the pre-existing conditions for children and adults, because he wanted us out of Iraq (another pro-life issue in my mind) and had a plan to do it, and because of Palin.

I’m sorry if I sound unreasonable - but I do find it unreasonable that the whole Tea Party and all but 3 Republicans signed that pledge to Grover Norquist. If someone can explain to me why they felt it so important to pledge themselves to a lobbyist - I would be willing to reconsider my opinon that they should all be in jail. Blessings.

Joy, were you really a Republican at one time? I find that hard to believe. You support the textbook liberal/left/Obama arguments for keeping abortion legal - then you claim that it was hard to vote for Obama because of the pro-life issue. You are contradicting yourself, and undermining your claim that you were Republican but “saw the light” and started voting Democrat. Strange and contradictory. I take your entire post with a large grain of salt.

Ishii

 

[rlg94086]

Here is what I think 62Joy was trying to do:

Joy, were you really a Republican at one time? I find that hard to believe. You support the textbook liberal/left/Obama arguments for keeping abortion legal - then you claim that it was hard to vote for Obama because of the pro-life issue. You are contradicting yourself, and undermining your claim that you were Republican but “saw the light” and started voting Democrat. Strange and contradictory. I take your entire post with a large grain of salt.

Ishii

I agree. If she was a Republican, she was a very liberal, pro-choice, pro-“gay marriage,” “fiscal conservative.” That doesn’t lend a lot of credibility to her arguments.

 

[ishii]

However Ishii, if you think 62Joy wrote to support “pro abortion, anti catholic policies”, I believe you truly missed what she was saying. She did a great job discussing real aspects of the abortion issue imo. And superbly explained life and moral issues affecting the family, children, the sick, the homeless.
.

Here is the real aspect of abortion, Cmatt: a real, live, unborn human being is vacuumed out of its mothers womb. A real life is snuffed out. It is the worst injustice to say that some children should not live because of the possibility that they might not be born into the best circumstances. But such is the liberal mindset - the children are unwanted by their parents, - best for them to be killed. It is a shame that people who purport to be Christian would subscribe to such a point of view. Have you ever really tried to step out of your political slant you espouse to reflect on just what abortion is? I think if you really, truly did, you would not consider voting for someone who believes it should be legal.

Ishii

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

It looks just absolutely shabby for Canadian healthcare when the president of Canada has to come to the US for his healthcare.

 

[CMatt25]

Oh, I get it - the poster made it look like I was the one posting the liberal arguments for abortion.

Ishii

If you’re referring to me, Ishii, no I would never make it look like you were posting arguments when you weren’t. As I said all I did was click “quote” in Joy’s post.

 

[LovePatience]

Neither abortion nor poverty will ever end.

In any society, there should be no road to seek an abortion but there should be a road for everyone to seek a better life.

No matter what you do, some people will remain poor for whatever reason. You can not motivate everyone to improve their lifestyle.

I try day in and day out to think of ways to improve my financial situation just to create a buffer zone so I can continue to provide for my children. The few eggs I have are in the one small basket I have.

So far, the only thing I’ve come up with is to just keep working hard and plugging away at what I do. I’ve got some small business ideas of my own, but I don’t think this area is quite able to sustain them just yet.

I know some in this area who would run you off their dilapidated porch with a shotgun if you showed up offering free government help. And some that soak it up like a sponge.

Its about making sure that those who are motivated have opportunities, and those who are unable, i.e. the disabled, are cared for by our surplus.

Well, Malta has pretty much ended absolute poverty. If slavery could end, so can abortion and poverty. And it seems that the only countries in the world that have successfully outlawed abortion have also done well on poverty. There’s quite a difference between a war, where people are constantly murdered, and a rare murder. Ireland may have outlawed abortion, but it doesn’t mean that women do not leave the country for abortions.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Its about making sure that those who are motivated have opportunities, and those who are unable, i.e. the disabled, are cared for by our surplus.

Well, Malta has pretty much ended absolute poverty. If slavery could end, so can abortion and poverty. And it seems that the only countries in the world that have successfully outlawed abortion have also done well on poverty. There’s quite a difference between a war, where people are constantly murdered, and a rare murder. Ireland may have outlawed abortion, but it doesn’t mean that women do not leave the country for abortions.

Our government could bring about as close to an end of poverty we will ever see if it wanted to. But they are too busy making sure its politically expedient, and personally profitable to dl do.

Malta is not Oklahoma or Mississippi or Arkansas or any other state where there are a large number of people, considered to be living in poverty by many on the outside looking in but prefer their lifestyle to yours or mine.

Slavery and abortion can not be compared to poverty.

 

[rlg94086]

Its about making sure that those who are motivated have opportunities, and those who are unable, i.e. the disabled, are cared for by our surplus.

Well, Malta has pretty much ended absolute poverty. If slavery could end, so can abortion and poverty. And it seems that the only countries in the world that have successfully outlawed abortion have also done well on poverty. There’s quite a difference between a war, where people are constantly murdered, and a rare murder. Ireland may have outlawed abortion, but it doesn’t mean that women do not leave the country for abortions.

Great! I’m sure your state has a much larger economy than Malta. You should push to end poverty in your own state as an example for the rest of us.

You live in a majority Democrat state, right? No brainer.

 

[LovePatience]

Great! I’m sure your state has a much larger economy than Malta. You should push to end poverty in your own state as an example for the rest of us.

You live in a majority Democrat state, right? No brainer.

What’s that supposed to mean?

 

[LovePatience]

Our government could bring about as close to an end of poverty we will ever see if it wanted to. But they are too busy making sure its politically expedient, and personally profitable to dl do.

Malta is not Oklahoma or Mississippi or Arkansas or any other state where there are a large number of people, considered to be living in poverty by many on the outside looking in but prefer their lifestyle to yours or mine.

Slavery and abortion can not be compared to poverty.

Well, can’t speak for those in Oklahoma or Arkansas, but those in Mississippi do not prefer their lifestyle.

 

[rlg94086]

What’s that supposed to mean?

It was in plain English. What did you not understand?

 

[LovePatience]

Our government could bring about as close to an end of poverty we will ever see if it wanted to. But they are too busy making sure its politically expedient, and personally profitable to dl do.

Well, it has to be expedient or they would be thrown out of office before they could get anything done. We get the government we deserve. But a lot of change needs to take place in the culture.

Malta is not Oklahoma or Mississippi or Arkansas or any other state where there are a large number of people, considered to be living in poverty by many on the outside looking in but prefer their lifestyle to yours or mine.

Don’t know about Arkansas or Oklahoma, but do know that the people in Mississippi who are in entrenched poverty would like to escape.

Slavery and abortion can not be compared to poverty.

The Virgin Mary at Fatima:

«Let us strive to avoid the sin of impurity, and we must employ every means in our grasp to achieve this. It is an offence to God and that should be enough for us to want to avoid it, and all the more because this vice, out of all the vices which the powers of darkness have incited in this world of sin, is the most shameful and the most repugnant! The most shameful but not the most grave.

«Acts of injustice and a lack of charity towards the poor, widows and orphans, the ignorant and the helpless, are a thousand times more serious and offensive in God’s eyes, and yet people pay no attention to these, whereas they should give them far more attention for they are often the beginning and cause of the disorientation of a great many souls, leading them to plunge into the mire! How many times do those who stand up proudly against impurity, peacefully sleep the sleep of the unjust, laying their heads on the purse of Judas!!!

Abortion is related to poverty. During the Bush years, the abortion rate started going up after a period of long decline. Most likely, it was because during Bush’s time in office, poverty began increasing again, and abortion is concentrated among the poor.

 

[ishii]

If you’re referring to me, Ishii, no I would never make it look like you were posting arguments when you weren’t. As I said all I did was click “quote” in Joy’s post.

I was referring to the orginal poster, Cmatt - not you. I don’t think it was intentional in any case.

Ishii

 

[Dale_M]

I was referring to the orginal poster, Cmatt - not you. I don’t think it was intentional in any case.

Probably not intentional, it appears to be a somewhat common editing error. When she quoted you, she didn’t want to quote your entire post so she edited out everything except two sentences. However, it appears she also deleted the closing quote tag.

I mention this somewhat off-topic issue because inspecting what we posted, after we posted it, is a good practice. If the quote or quotes do not look right, then it is our responsibility to figure out what we did wrong and to correct it. Erm… excuse me while get on a soapbox.

In post 121, the quote of Ishii does not appear within a quote box. Because of that, it is hard to for readers to distinguish Ishii’s words from the words of the person responding to what he said. And in this situation, it is impossible for the forum software to distinguish between what the two different members wrote.

The matter is worsened because a stray quote tag appears in post 121. It looks like this:
[noparse]

[/noparse]

Quote tags function as a pair. One tag opens the quote and the second tag closes the quote. When a pair of tags is used properly, they will create a quote box which will contain the quoted words and correctly identify who said them. Quote tags should never be visible in a post (unless they are bracketed with special code like I used).

If a stray quote tag does appear in a post, it will throw off the forum software and anyone who subsequently quotes the offending post will find that words are being attributed to the wrong person. This can create confusion as well as frustration.

So, please everyone, inspect your posts after you have made them. Or, (and the moderator may prefer this) use the “Preview Post” button to check how the post will appear. If you see an error in your post, you need to be sure to correct it. Otherwise, it can cause problems down the road for everyone.

Okay, sorry guys for the diversion.

(climbs down from soapbox)

 

[62Joy]

A private citizen should be in jail for wishing to limit confiscator taxes?

No - politicians who sign pledges to support the interests of a lobbyist should be in jail. I have no problem with them agreeing with his position - but, to actually sign a pledge saying that is how you are going to base your decisions in congress - sorry, that is NOT okay. And I say that for anyone - either party. The three Dems who signed it should be in a cell as well.

I told you that I was a Republican for years and that is true. If you don’t choose to believe it - that is fine. And from your perspective I can see why - because I am not fund of the “new” but definitely “not improved” GOP. Or maybe, it is just because I am older and wiser now than I was when I was younger. Have a good day.