Catholic school application process

[twf]

Giving monthly would have hurt you if applying at my parish school… as I have now learned…

 

[cloistered]

And do you think any parent might be sacrificing their child’s future if they send them to a “low-quality” Catholic school?

 

[cloistered]

This isn’t a study on vouchers, just on public vs. Catholic schools.

Study: Catholic schools not superior to public schools | MSUToday | Michigan State University

 

[whatistrue]

low-quality public school

You also need to make sure that the metric you are using for “quality” is actually measuring quality and not just the ability to get students to score well on a canned test on a particular day.

 

[Jen95]

Oh I agree - - standardized test scores aren’t everything. I truly am sad that teachers and students feel so pressured for these stupid tests.
However, having said that, they do indicate a ballpark assessment of something, I think. And of course they do correlate with SES.

 

[Jen95]

This isn’t a study on vouchers, just on public vs. Catholic schools.
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-catholic-schools-not-superior-to-public-schools/

Once again, K-8.
Why do these not study high school level?

 

[whatistrue]

ballpark assessment of something

My wife has been a school teacher for approaching 18 or so years. She describes it as “at best, a point in time snapshot” of how well the students can score on that specific test. It does not measure things like critical thinking and research ability. In short, in my opinion it does not measure the most important thing that students need to learn: How to learn.

 

[cloistered]

I don’t know. As I said, my guess is readily available tests, just cause they take so many in the lower grades.

 

[Jen95]

Since you keep talking about “academics alone” make Catholic schools a “waste of money” - - let’s look a little broader, shall we? I think each family will have to decide
which school in their area provides the best choice for their child, and it a school is more than just academics.
What makes a successful school?

1. Leadership
2. High Expectations
3. Ongoing Evaluation
4. Goals and Direction
5. Secure and Organized

The Five Attributes of Successful Schools (Opinion)

 

[cloistered]

Yep, I was talking about academics alone. I totally think there are all kinds of valid reasons for a family to pick Catholic schools and I totally think they should have the right to choose.

 

[Jen95]

But most of them also take tests in 10th grade or so.
Could it be that Catholic high schools do provide an advantage, and the slanted publications would prefer to hide that?
Wouldn’t that be extra effective in persuading people how worthless Catholic schools are, when Catholic high school tuition is so expensive?

 

[cloistered]

I have zero idea why none of the studies don’t cover HS. It could be why you said, but I really doubt it.

 

[Rau]

They may, or they may not. The pass rate of a standardized test is worthless in determining how well educated the students as a group, or any given individual student, are.

But it can be quite informative on measurable matters such as:

• how well can the kids solve simple maths problems of the kind in the syllabus;
• how well do the kids know correct vs incorrect grammar;

etc.

 

[Rau]

My wife has been a school teacher for approaching 18 or so years. She describes it as “at best, a point in time snapshot” of how well the students can score on that specific test.

I think they can be a better guide than just that. They do also put the teacher under some pressure - they, unavoidably, reflect in part (and only in part) on the quality of the teacher. Many teachers would prefer there were no standardised tests.

It does not measure things like critical thinking and research ability. In short, in my opinion it does not measure the most important thing that students need to learn: How to learn.

This suggests some things aren’t well measured by standardised tests. I think that’s clear.

 

[whatistrue]

They do also put the teacher under some pressure

Yes - pressure to teach to the test, not general well-rounded education.

 

[Rau]

Yes - pressure to teach to the test, not general well-rounded education.

Which is not a problem necessarily - but not the pressure to which I refer.

 

[whatistrue]

How is it not a problem when the teacher’s continued employment is contingent on the students passing a test that has essentially zero value in actually measuring anything useful?

 

[Rau]

How is it not a problem when the teacher’s continued employment is contingent on the students passing a test that has essentially zero value in actually measuring anything useful?

Your premise is a personal opinion. I find test results valuable. And while it does not follow strictly that poor results imply a poor teacher, it is, in my experience, clear that teachers vary significantly in quality, and that better quality teachers contribute noticeably to better quality outcomes.

 

[whatistrue]

Your premise is a personal opinion. I find test results valuable

Informed by research and information, yes. But professional educators who do this every day and are highly educated themselves tend to place much less value on standardized tests, such as the Virginia SOL for example.

it is, in my experience, clear that teachers vary significantly in quality, and that better quality teachers contribute noticeably to better quality outcomes.

I absolutely agree with this statement; no quibble at all. The difference is that I don’t think that standardized testing is a useful measure of teacher quality.

 

[Dlee]

Giving monthly would have hurt you if applying at my parish school… as I have now learned…

I actually asked my Priest about this last night. He said most definitely to drop an empty envelope in the offering each week - even if you give month, electronically, whatever. He said this is the way they keep track of who is attending Mass.