'Catholic Spring' uprising prediction for Ireland over dissenting priest Father Flannery

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Hopemercy said:
You underestimate the tenacity and stubbornness of the Irish temperament, especially where a religion that is nationalistic is concerned.
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Catholicism in Ireland has already experienced a decline in Mass attendance and the young barely attend at all. So what exactly is this “revolt” supposed to do? How do people who are already not in church revolt?
Flanerry et al are not going to let go. Interesting that they call themselves Liberal Catholics as if it were a separate church…
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Well, let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. Calling oneself a liberal or conservative Catholic doesn’t automatically imply a separate church. And while Fr. Flannery might be the news of the day, in time he’ll be pushed out of the papers by some other story.
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
Catholicism in Ireland has already experienced a decline in Mass attendance and the young barely attend at all. So what exactly is this “revolt” supposed to do? How do people who are already not in church revolt?

Well, let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. Calling oneself a liberal or conservative Catholic doesn’t automatically imply a separate church. And while Fr. Flannery might be the news of the day, in time he’ll be pushed out of the papers by some other story.
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Hey I am in Ireland and the picture in many rural areas is not as you are seeing it. Churches are crowded on Sundays and whole families attend.

Fr F et al are pushing themselves into the news in every way they can and are very persistent so you ignored my statement on that… Unless he is stopped?

No he will not leave of his own volition… why should he when he has everything provided for him than thinks he is right?
 
saveusfromhell said:
Not where I was going with that. In fact you probably well aware I don’t have strong feelings one way or the other about the north whether they want to be Irish or part of the union.

**
[Irish people have been at best nominally Catholic for years and hundreds of thousands of Irish people are non-Catholic/QUOTE**]
I know this. What I’m referring to. If you believe what the protestant groupings of Christianity believe, than why would you want to be called catholic? Which is where I believe this is going, maybe get enough people with them to create a schism? We all know the church will not bend or change, so what option can they choose.
So maybe they won’t be looking for the union to be maintained but the feeling towards the pope seems similar
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Hopemercy said:
Hey I am in Ireland and the picture in many rural areas is not as you are seeing it. Churches are crowded on Sundays and whole families attend.
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Perhaps not in the rural areas but on the whole, according to the Bishops of Ireland, the Republic of Ireland’s Mass attendance sits at 36%. And only about 19% of Catholics aged 25-34 attend once a week.

As you point out there are regional differences but on the whole the picture is not great.
Fr F et al are pushing themselves into the news in every way they can and are very persistent so you ignored my statement on that… Unless he is stopped?
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I could be wrong, but I’ve seen lots of people claim “I/we are not going away” and they usually do go away. The media looks for new stories and stories that sell. After a while the media gets tired of a broken record.
No he will not leave of his own volition… why should he when he has everything provided for him than thinks he is right?
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I don’t understand what you’re saying here…
 
YoungIreland said:
Another renegade priest has been disciplined by the Vatican. Fr. Sean Fagan had been very vocal about his support for women priests and an end to celibacy. Here is the article from the Indo:

independent.ie/national-news/priests-group-rallies-behind-cleric-silenced-by-hierarchy-3081567.html

And here is the reaction of my friend Shane over at Lux Occulta:

lxoa.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/another-dissident-irish-priest-silenced/
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today on rte it said ACP can’t understand why the priest fr sean fagan was silenced for speaking out about child abuse. although nobody was attributed with this comment from the ACP
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
Perhaps not in the rural areas but on the whole, according to the Bishops of Ireland, the Republic of Ireland’s Mass attendance sits at 36%. And only about 19% of Catholics aged 25-34 attend once a week.

As you point out there are regional differences but on the whole the picture is not great.

I could be wrong, but I’ve seen lots of people claim “I/we are not going away” and they usually do go away. The media looks for new stories and stories that sell. After a while the media gets tired of a broken record.

I don’t understand what you’re saying here…
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Where please are you getting your figures from? That survey was run by ACP ie Fr Flannery… it is suspect indeed. The figures also of who is Catholic refers to baptism figures? I don’t see that as being Catholic.

No the picture is not great but there is good reason for that and that has nothing to do with sexuality teachings, marriage for priests,., It is because of the scope of clergy and religious child abuse here. Almost every family has been affected. And it has become a generational thing now as folk care for severely damaged older ones.

My comment re Fr Flannery not leaving? He is paid and housed and fed by the Church so he will not leave. Knows literally which side his bread is buttered on and he likes it that way So he will carry on making bigger and bigger waves, and he knows how to manipulate the media s these latest blasts show, Have a look at the clerical whispers site; they are pro-liberal.
 
Given the last ten years of an intense anti-catholic media
coverage. Especially since the death of JPII.
Its amazing the figures for church attendene are as high as they are. Its testemony to the hard core belivers.
Its our witness not that of the descenters who will provide for the endurance of the faith.
 
Hopemercy said:
Where please are you getting your figures from?
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From the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference.
That survey was run by ACP ie Fr Flannery… it is suspect indeed.
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The study that is on the Irish Bishops’ website is a summary of data from the European Social Survey and the International Social Science Programme Religion.
My comment re Fr Flannery not leaving? He is paid and housed and fed by the Church so he will not leave. Knows literally which side his bread is buttered on and he likes it that way So he will carry on making bigger and bigger waves, and he knows how to manipulate the media s these latest blasts show, Have a look at the clerical whispers site; they are pro-liberal.
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Are there no Protestant denominations that he could join? I’m pretty sure they get paid as well. So I’d say he stays Catholic because he wants to be Catholic.
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
From the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference.

The study that is on the Irish Bishops’ website is a summary of data from the European Social Survey and the International Social Science Programme Religion.

Are there no Protestant denominations that he could join? I’m pretty sure they get paid as well. So I’d say he stays Catholic because he wants to be Catholic.
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They wouldn’t have him! Would any church?

Is he still Catholic? in the true sense?

Given that he is opposing the Authitory of the Pope himslf? And exhorting many others to do the same.
 
gus said:
Given the last ten years of an intense anti-catholic media
coverage. Especially since the death of JPII.
Its amazing the figures for church attendene are as high as they are. Its testemony to the hard core belivers.
Its our witness not that of the descenters who will provide for the endurance of the faith.
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Sorry but this is simply not true.

In this case, the media invented nothing; simply reported what was being made public forcibly bu the various official reports. They had no need to invent or exaggerate.

In fact they have but revealed the tip of a very large iceberg.

The Church is entirely to blame for its state here in Ireland. Unless and until that is faced there will never be any change or renewal.
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
From the Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference.

The study that is on the Irish Bishops’ website is a summary of data from the European Social Survey and the International Social Science Programme Religion.

Are there no Protestant denominations that he could join? I’m pretty sure they get paid as well. So I’d say he stays Catholic because he wants to be Catholic.
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I am not certain when these figures were prepared, but I believe relatively recently, quote:

studiesirishreview.ie/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=140&category_id=17&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=5

*On the population-concentration variable, Mass attendance was found to stand at 49%, 50.9% and 56.5% (respectively) in suburbs, in cities, in towns; in villages and in countryside/farm homes, by contrast, the figure rises to 70.6% and 76.6%

*Regular (weekly, up to monthly) Mass attendance for Irish Catholics now stands at 63.4% - with 50% attending weekly, and 5% attending daily. This figure is the highest in Europe (Poland scores less than 60% and Italy scores less than 40%)…Back in the l970s, however, one survey had put Irish Catholic regular Mass attendance at 91%.

*There is a drop to 34.7% among the 25 – 34 cohort; but this is more than offset by the 54.7% attendance of 35 to 44-year-olds. *
 
Hopemercy said:
Sorry but this is simply not true.

In this case, the media invented nothing; simply reported what was being made public forcibly bu the various official reports. They had no need to invent or exaggerate.

In fact they have but revealed the tip of a very large iceberg.

The Church is entirely to blame for its state here in Ireland. Unless and until that is faced there will never be any change or renewal.
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So you believe our Pope was a Nazi?
 
Its an implication that is continually made.
Especially by entertainers who have much more influence on the young than regular news outlets.
Remember we are talking church attendence.
 
gus said:
So you believe our Pope was a Nazi?
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As jharek said, that is a strawman.
Also considering that you are quoting
“entertainers” (like who?) your statement is
both disrespectful and way off the mark.
 
Hopemercy said:
Sorry but this is simply not true.

In this case, the media invented nothing; simply reported what was being made public forcibly bu the various official reports. They had no need to invent or exaggerate.
.
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Gus is replying to this statement, so it is relevant and not a straw man.
personally i have heard this citted by the irish independent irish times and on rte 1.

anyone who believes that the media does provide a fair and balanced approach on the Irish church needs to read patsy mcgarrity in the Irish times or when he is interviewed as the religious affairs correspondent for pat Kenny,
 
Yes when hopandmercy said church I guessed he/she meant the hierarchy, but the church even though not what referred to is in effect us. We the church never believed that our priests needed our prayers. It is they that probably are tempted more than anyone, as when a priest falls he takes far more down with.
 
I’m going to have to start reading my posts before I put them up.🤷 I least I started using spell check, improve’s my atrocius spelling 😃
 
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