Catholic stance on spiritual connection to nature?

  • Thread starter Thread starter franklinstower
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Filled with persons ?

Please explain this, I’ve never heard of that before
 
its the notion that all life plants, animals, and even stones are conscious beings (or in the case of stones and plants) groups of life that have on over soul. basically it just means that your dog has an eternal soul and is also on a spiritual journey and has its own unique point of contact with God.

once this is accepted, the kind of community (like we experience in contemplative circles and at mass) ie spiritual community, is opened up with all beings and a trip into nature becomes very sacred and holy.
 
Last edited:
OK, same thing Fr Rohr teaches essentially

Whether or not a dog has contact with God in the same level we humans do, would be a problem for some.

A friend of mine who lost their beloved dog, due to old age, went to a Christian healer and asked if he would ever see his dog in heaven. He was told that in heaven, we will experience complete joy and happiness, and if he desires to see his dog, he will.
 
Pretty much the way I was taught and believe.
 
Last edited:
On this matter, the Orthodox and Catholics agree:
If anyone has put his trust in Him as a Man without a human mind, he is really bereft of mind, and quite unworthy of salvation. For that which He has not assumed He has not healed; but that which is united to His Godhead is also saved. … For if His Manhood is without soul, even the Arians admit this, that they may attribute His Passion to the Godhead, as that which gives motion to the body is also that which suffers. But if He has a soul, and yet is without a mind, how is He man, for man is not a mindless animal? And this would necessarily involve that while His form and tabernacle was human, His soul should be that of a horse or an ox, or some other of the brute creation. This, then, would be what He saves; and I have been deceived by the Truth, and led to boast of an honour which had been bestowed upon another. But if His Manhood is intellectual and nor without mind, let them cease to be thus really mindless.
Click to expand...
https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/20...y-the-theologian-archbishop-of-constantinople

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3103a.htm
 
If animals had rational souls, surely some of them would be joining this thread.
 
the Orthodox Church has not made any official dogmatic statements on this topic.
 
maybe they are less polluted and have better things to do like “be”.
 
Because I think that after twenty years someone really resolved almost all (if not all) issues with Church. I don’t say that you cannot have problem with acceptance of some teaching or cannot understand something (I myself don’t understand many things) but I cannot imagine saying this after 20 years (I myself reconverted couple years ago and I cannot say that even now):
franklinstower said:
yes i disagree with the Church. they are not infallible and have been wrong a lot throughout history. i trust them to lead me perfectly towards salvation. beyond that i am certain that they get things wrong quite often.
Click to expand...
You are wrong because
That the Church is infallible in her definitions on faith and morals is itself a Catholic dogma, which, although it was formulated ecumenically for the first time in the Vatican Council, had been explicitly taught long before and had been assumed from the very beginning without question down to the time of the Protestant Reformation.
Click to expand...
Infallibility of Church
 
Last edited:
the church is infallible in those areas. this topic is outside of its purview.
 
franklinstower said:
its the notion that all life plants, animals, and even stones are conscious beings (or in the case of stones and plants) groups of life that have on over soul. basically it just means that your dog has an eternal soul and is also on a spiritual journey and has its own unique point of contact with God.

once this is accepted, the kind of community (like we experience in contemplative circles and at mass) ie spiritual community, is opened up with all beings and a trip into nature becomes very sacred and holy.
Click to expand...
You are correct with your observation.
 
let me see if i can help you see where i am coming from.

i was a practicing shaman when i joined the Catholic Church. my connection to God through that path led me to Christ. when i accepted Christ i knew that i had to come at it fresh and leave everything else behind or else i would not know what what Christ and what came from shamanism. i went under the spiritual direction of a Trappist monk who is a contemplative and walked that road ONLY for 20 years.

i discovered that Christ brings salvation, truly and that i would not have found that on my previous path. i found something NOT found in shamanism.

but over the years i found my connection to nature lacking, any spiritual teaching from the Catholic Church on it lacking, even though we have some examples from some saints. and i did not find my connection to Christ bringing me a connection to nature in the same intimate ways. of course i could slip into the old ways from shamanism but i chose not too. i did not want to pollute or confuse what was coming from Jesus.

but now if feels like i have been repressing a true good in repressing the connection i had with nature and if seems like the Holy Spirit itself is/was drawing me to regain the connection that was lost. it seems like only dogma is keeping me from it while love is calling me to it, and that has reawakened my questioning.

this thread is me saying throw the best arguments you have from scripture and theology and ill consider them and let them stomp out these ideas if they ought to be stomped out. i still will, but being honest I thought there would be a lot more to such a dramatic proclamation as definitively stating that animals have no eternal souls and such a wrong statement as animals have no rational minds.
 
So what is this about?
You ask about Catholic stance on spiritual connection to nature?, so your questions are about spirituality and about souls (of animals and non living creatures). So we can conclude it is about faith. Church is infallible in matters of moral AND faith.

I suggest you to speak to priest to find answers you’re looking for or to write an email, with all arguments you think that are legit in this discussion. You got great, truthful and official teaching answers from some posters here.
 
i think you are mistaken. the Catholic Church makes very few infallible statements and the existence of souls in animals is not one of them.
 
Last edited:
franklinstower said:
please expand and are you deeply Christian?
Click to expand...
I believe we are minds embedded in and interacting by material. Mind to me is essence of any being with ability to experience, decide and cause. I am a dualist but not Christian since I don’t believe in the creator so called God.
 
that’s too bad about the creator. i found that about ten years into my journey and that is how i found Jesus. there is a creator but it does not have to exclude other beings. it is ALL held together in Christ.
 
franklinstower said:
but over the years i found my connection to nature lacking, any spiritual teaching from the Catholic Church on it lacking, even though we have some examples from some saints. and i did not find my connection to Christ bringing me a connection to nature in the same intimate ways.
Click to expand...
But God created us because of Himself not because He had to fill some gaps in nature. Actually we should be deeply and intimately connected to God, not to nature.
I really understand your position - your past - but don’t agree with you.
Church isn’t lacking in it’s teaching, we lack something if we don’t want to accept what Church says.
franklinstower said:
i think you are mistaken. the Catholic Church makes very few infallible statements and the existence of souls in animals is not one of them.
Click to expand...
Teaching of Church isn’t only in Bible or only in dogmas.
I gave you source that is reliable - st. Thomas Aquinas, who is doctor of Church and he never claimed anything contrary to Catholic Church’s teaching.
franklinstower said:
that’s too bad about the creator. i found that about ten years into my journey and that is how i found Jesus. there is a creator but it does not have to exclude other beings. it is ALL held together in Christ.
Click to expand...
But animals aren’t equal to humans and nothing is equal to God. God created everything to serve to human - animals for food, for help, and man should respect and love what God created. Animals are subordinated to humans. I don’t know where you got idea that Church has all that wrong and you are right. Can you post source or write what you read about Church’s teaching on about this topic?
You could also read Genesis and find some answers.
Which connection you expect to have with nature that Church don’t support?
 
Last edited:
your first paragraph does not address anything i think.

i have already addressed that the Church can be and is often wrong about things. i don’t find philosophy to have the capacity to decide if an eternal soul exists in animals.

your third paragraph does not address anything i think aside from me stating that I think the Church can be wrong about lots of things not directly related to salvation.

as to the connection with animals it is a person to person spiritual communion that is absent in Christian thought. i think it is absent because it is not directly relevant to salvation. it is peripheral and not necessary and yet it can be very enriching and beautiful too.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top