Catholic Teaching and Immunization Policy

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Pup7 said:
The causes of cancer run the gamut from environmental to genetic. Something gets in and breaks the DNA code and causes cells to rapidly multiply.

That’s what causes cancer.

Mesothelioma is caused by asbestos fibers becoming trapped in the lining of the lungs. The tiny, often microscopic fibers are inhaled, travel to the lungs, and become embedded in the pleura - the very ends of the tiniest airway passages in the lungs. Inflammation ensues. Scarring occurs, and the body attempts to repair the scarring - and as it continues the pattern of scarring and attempting to heal (generally over several decades), cellular changes develop, and cancer is the result.

The cause is the mesothelioma fibers. The cancer is discovered DECADES after the damage is complete.

How are you going to remove those fibers from the lungs? How does that correct the damage already done? That’s the cause - go after the cause, correct?

How?

A normal, healthy adult - no history of working in a chemical factory, nothing remarkable - let’s assume she’s a housewife who’s lived a pretty ordinary life. Three kids, awesome husband. No odd travel, lived in a small town, no chemical plants, no farming nearby. No family history remarkable for cancer. No radiation exposure. She’s never even been on a plane. Never smoked, Never lived around a smoker. She suddenly develops fatigue, night sweats, and a strange assortment of bruises that appear like pale purple lace across her upper arms and back. Her upper thighs, lower back, and hips hurt more than she’s ever experienced before. Weight starts to suddenly just fall off her. And one day she barely taps her arm and ends up with a massive, hard bruise the size of her hand. She goes to the doctor, and two weeks later learns she has acute myelocytic leukemia, AML.

What caused it? What cause do you recommend we go after to explain the source of the sudden chaos her bone marrow has become?

I just described two of my former patients. Both died several years ago. I have many, many more stories…the patient with aplastic anemia - complete sudden death of the bone marrow - with no apparent explanation; the patient with B cell lymphoma who was an ophthalmologist. The 24 year old girl who had metastatic ovarian cancer with no family history whose husband begged us not to tell her she was going to die. The 34 year old woman with Ewing’s Sarcoma. (Know who primarily gets Ewing’s Sarcoma? Prepubescent boys. How did she get it? What was the cause?)

Even in cases when we KNOW the cause - smoking and lung and bladder cancer - we can’t stop the damage to the DNA that has created the cancer the cause left in its wake.

Exactly how do we go after the cause?
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One might start to think that LIFE itself is the cause…sorry for butting in. Lots of likes to all your posts on this topic! I work in the medical field too and it’s awesome!
 
No, we should follow peer reviewed research and make valid informed decisions.

As I consider the NIH a valid source, I did more research. So I disagree with HepB for an INFANT based on an informed decision from valid sources.

You’re not going to pass HepB on from casual contact. But you can infect a pregnant mother with German measles with a cough.

I would also never discourage a parent who felt HepB was the right decision for their baby. That is not my job. Personally, I am against it. But I am neither the CDC nor a physician. That is my role.
 
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Gab123 said:
DDoctors are too busy; they go by what they are told by the CDC.
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You’re giving docs a bad rap with generalizations.

Doctors aren’t moneygrubbing dirtbags. Scum is indeed everywhere, but the overwhelming majority of docs are good people striving to make a difference.
 
A lot of us disagree with components of immunization policy based on informed decisions from valid sources. Doesn’t the American Nurses Association disagree with mandatory influenza vaccination, (i.e. no non-medical exemptions) as a condition of employment? I don’t blame them. Analysis finds limited evidence for HCW flu vaccination | CIDRAP

Remember, kids in three states can’t get into school without the full Hep B series or a doctor’s note and health department approval.

Can you see the slippery slope to mandatory vaccination? You don’t get a fair choice even when the evidence is on your side.
 
Of course it is. No one is objecting to that.

But to arbitrarily say doctors are too busy and blindly follow is categorically unfair.
 
sorry I accidentally answered the wrong person 🙂
 
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Pup7 said:
Doctors aren’t moneygrubbing dirtbags. Scum is indeed everywhere, but the overwhelming majority of docs are good people striving to make a difference.
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Obviously, but they are just prescribing the drugs not inventing them. But there’s not doubt that the medical industry is a business.
 
blackforest said:
Can you see the slippery slope to mandatory vaccination? You don’t get a fair choice even when the evidence is on your side.
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Yes, and you have a valid point. However, make no mistake, the slippery slope the other way, allowing parents to forego their own children’s immunizations while relying on the goodwill of responsible parents to protect their own children is also a slippery slope, and one with consequences that have historical evidence to lead to death and misery.

Growing up, I knew several polio survivors, most who were older, but even younger people can read and learn from history.
 
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Vaccination rates have been on a continuous upswing since the 1960s, so you’re nowhere close to that “slippery slope.” There have been small spikes in non-medical exemptions throughout the country, even as overall rates go up, that tend to correlate with the introduction of new vaccines. It’s very easy to point condemnatory fingers at today’s vaccine-skeptical parents, but it’s natural for them ask lots of questions when the vaccine schedule has mushroomed since you and I were children.

My understanding is that the last recorded case of wild polio, (“recorded” being the key word, as the vast majority of polio cases are asymptomatic) in this country was in 1979. We continue to vaccinate for polio until it is completely eradicated globally, but it’s not on my radar as an immediate threat.

I’m not honestly sure how Pup7 feels about mandatory influenza vaccination for health care workers. But re: the Hep B for infants and small children, it must be nice to disagree with the CDC on something without being name-called an “anti-vax conspiracy theorist.”
 
I think a big difference is that she doesn’t seem to mind having it later and doesn’t seem to believe it wound have adverse effects.

It also helps that hep b isn’t a disease that child would be likely to get unless something else were very, very wrong.
 
Sure, but it’s required for 5-year-olds here, (infants if they’re in daycare), even though the risk of children catching and spreading it in a classroom setting is quantifiably negligible.
 
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blackforest said:
Sure, but it’s required for 5-year-olds here, even though the risk of children catching and spreading it in a classroom setting quantifiably negligible.
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Yes, I’m not sure what that has to do with my reply to be honest?
 
I wasn’t clear - sorry. A number of parents delay this vaccine (read: Yours Truly). I have been called both an “anti-vaxxer” and “conspiracy theorist” for it. Not everyone who disagrees with or even questions U.S. federal recommendations fits these labels.
 
I’m afraid I don’t know why people who aren’t me do things and cannot judge based on only one did of the event.
 
Pup7 said:
I have many, many more stories…the patient with aplastic anemia - complete sudden death of the bone marrow - with no apparent explanation; the patient with B cell lymphoma who was an ophthalmologist. The 24 year old girl who had metastatic ovarian cancer with no family history . . The 34 year old woman with Ewing’s Sarcoma. (Know who primarily gets Ewing’s Sarcoma? Prepubescent boys. How did she get it? What was the cause?)
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Obviously the environment we are exposed to and the chemicals we are ingesting is most likely the starting point, as you explained with smoking.

If you expose your skin to the sun long enough you will develop second degree burns and increase your chances for getting skin cancer and melanoma. The fact that we are exposed to so many chemicals in products should be no surprise. Thus we hear people in the medical profession dumbfounded making statements like:

The 40 year old woman with Ewing’s Sarcoma! Do you know who primarily gets Ewing’s Sarcoma?? Prepubescent boys!! How did she get it?? What was the cause?

The fact that human beings are being injected with man-made genetically engineered vaccines designed to tamper with the immune system might be a clue as to why there are a horde of cancers and diseases popping up in the oddest places.
Pup7 said:
I have many, many more stories…
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Just because a multi-billion dollar industry says they did a study on their products, says nothing about the long-term effects. They are clueless about the long-term effects._

There are a plethora of cancers popping up in the oddest places. And just read the booklets on the pharmaceutical products, those warnings with the tiny almost illegible fonts. If all those potential side effects were printed on a standard sheet of paper with a regular size font it would be a stack of papers warning you of all the dangers; they even warn you to to seek medical help if the side-effect symptoms appear right away. People who were exposed at Chernobyl didn’t develop their symptoms right away.

Just take the time to read all the potential side-effects of these approved products, from the bleeding eyes to the bleeding stool and everything in between. And then there’s the opioid crisis, where doctors are prescribing pharnaceuticals that are killing people. Prescription drugs are among the leading causes of death in the U.S.

These days people sing the praises of being anti-GMO and living a healthy lifestyle eating only “organic” foods that are not genetically tampered with. GMOs_Genetically Modified Organisms_ are organisms that had their genes manipulated through laboratory engineering, creating combinations that do not occur in nature.

Obviously the long-term effects are hard to predict, much like many other products that were deemed safe in past generations are banned today.

People dismiss the frightful increase in autism rates as merely a new way of classifying cases. 1 in 5,000 in 1975 is now 1 in 110 and the rates off occurrence are increasing. What is odd is that the rates are disproportionate among young black males.
 
blackforest said:
Vaccination rates have been on a continuous upswing since the 1960s, so you’re nowhere close to that “slippery slope.”
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That is the problem with all slippery slope arguments is that they can always be simply denied, like the idea that somehow mandatory vaccinations will lead to some sort of government excess. I think my use is better than yours, of course. You think yours is better. I base mine on biology, not statistics, not that statistics are not valid.
 
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