Catholic Teaching and Immunization Policy

[Pup7]

There’s worse.

I’ve seen a bumper sticker that says “honk if you passed p-chem (physical chemistry)”

Look that class up.

If I ever decide I want that headache I’ll just pry my nails off with toothpicks.

 

[ATraveller]

honk if you passed p-chem (physical chemistry)

We had to take at least 3 of those. Quantum was the most intimidating. I honestly thought I would have failed it but I studied more than usual and barely passed. All of those equations and the calculus…

 

[Pup7]

Literally, God bless you.

O-Chem was like a puzzle. I loved it. Did well at it.

P-chem looks like complete torture. Hats off to you for pulling it off. ANY passing grade in that has my admiration. I’d be blubbering in the corner, bawling and sniffling.

 

[Mtatum1958]

Oh, yes . Every exam the professor wore the same roadrunner tie that said Beep Beep your A…

 

[blackforest]

I didn’t deny the accuracy but the choice of words when there are better ones to convey it.

 

[Pup7]

I don’t need dramatic words to convey that a sentinel event CAN BE DEATH OR PERMANENT DAMAGE. Even the announcements when they come down from the FDA (I’ve worked for a clinical research organization and dealt with the FDA and several major drug companies) look like the bad news they are.

The word “sentinel event” is MORE than enough. I don’t need graphics to convey a point.

I also know how drug studies actually work. I also know that not everything attributed to vaccines was actually caused by the vaccines. I also know that there have been things attributed to vaccines that just weren’t caused by them.

That IS THE BEST CHOICE OF WORDS. It’s two words that say many, because a sentinel event is the worst of the worst that can occur. I don’t need a litany of effects when I use those two words.

So I used them.

blackforest chilled a bit, so I metered my own response in turn. Fair is fair.

 

[Pup7]

Trying to get an admission of vaccine-induced suffering feels like trying to get a pro-choicer to say the word “baby” or even “abortion,” so I’ll abandon my quest.

I’m going to say it. Just stop. The drama is unnecessary. You’re smarter than that, and I know you are.

 

[Mtatum1958]

In the medical area be a sentinel event is the most severe and the most prone to have significant attention and action taken to address them. I don’t anyone was bein flippant or trying to minimize the severity of such reactions.

 

[Pup7]

I wasn’t. You are correct. Thanks.

 

[blackforest]

For they sake of those who cannot medically have the vaccine, those that can must be vaccinated to have the constant close contact with other children, the type of contact that in the past has resulted in epidemics.

Children who cannot be vaccinated are usually immunocompromised. A truly immunocompromised child can die of a common cold, so I wouldn’t dream of sending my own to a classroom under these circumstances. Then consider that any given classroom can have homeless children (not required to show proof of immunization in some states), vaccine non-responders, low-responders, (i.e. with poor immuno-response to vaccination), waned immunity, and a bunch of adults not up-to-date on their vaccinations (teachers, aides, volunteers, package delivery personnel, etc.) . . . and you have a very, very vulnerable immunocompromised child.

The real kicker? Hep B+ children are allowed in the classroom, while Hep B - children with no vaccination for Hep B get the Ryan White treatment. Nice . . .

Mandates may feel emotionally cathartic but are not necessarily considered on a rational level.

 

[blackforest]

Thank you. I’m glad we agree. Please don’t feel antagonist. You’re really not under attack here. Tone is hard to read on the internet, and things get out of hand. God bless!

ETA: I re-read my post, and it does sound abrupt. I apologize and will edit it.

 

[Pup7]

The real kicker? Hep B+ children are allowed in the classroom, while Hep B - children with no vaccination for Hep B get the Ryan White treatment. Nice . . .

The real kicker?

You can’t get Hep B by touching a desk.

So unless the children are up to things no two children should be doing, their Hep status is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[blackforest]

This is precisely why I question the Hep B vaccination mandate. It’s not like kids are coughing it on to each other, right?

 

[Pup7]

You’re in for a MASSIVE SHOCK HERE.

I’m against the “given at 24 hours old” hepatitis vaccine.

 

[mVitus]

@Pup7 Thank you for your efforts to explain vaccines and real cancer treatments. I will also say that your posts overall are delightful to read.

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With vaccines, I remeber being in middle school and the fear of H1N1. I also remember the vaccination push and nasal injections. But I don’t seem to remember an unstoppable epidemic of H1N1.

And with cancer, my mother has been diagnosed with cancer thrice, thankfully early enough where it was stage 0/1. Radiation the first time and ectomies later means she’s still alive. Cinnamon-flavored parsley water wouldn’t have done that.

And as someone who never had to experience chicken pox, measles, mumps, tetanus, or polio, I’m thankful for vaccines.

 

[blackforest]

Just did a spit-take on my kombucha. Kidding.

I’ve met quite a few nurses who are. (Did you say in another thread that you’re a nurse, or am I thinking of someone else?)

 

[Pup7]

With vaccines, I remeber being in middle school and the fear of H1N1. I also remember the vaccination push and nasal injections. But I don’t seem to remember an unstoppable epidemic of H1N1.

First off thank you for your kind words. I am a believer in accurate information. The Airmen say I’m the one to go to with the tough questions when you want 265% of the answer.

My husband? He says he loves me but I talk too much.

All kidding aside…there was a huge suspicion during the H1N1 scare that a viral shift was going to occur and create a pandemic like the WWI era/1918 public health disaster. The epidemiological clues as I remember were there. We vaccinated. H1N1 killed something like 17,000 worldwide by the start of 2010.

And then it fizzled out. Coincidence? You gotta wonder.

God bless your mom and your family for all you went through. I am glad that we (my brothers and sisters in cancer care) were able to do some small part to help.

 

[pnewton]

Mandates may feel emotionally cathartic but are not necessarily considered on a rational level.

And what did the reference to Ryan White do if not to give an irrational emotional appeal? What happened was reasonably correct, when one considers it was in 1986 and HIV/AIDS was not as well understood as it is today. Today, we know that HIV is not spread through casual contact.

Comparing HIV to contagious diseases that children are vaccinated is truly and apples to oranges situation because of the transmission vectors. There is also the difference that one does not chose HIV, but some do, as a matter of choice, refuse to have their kids vaccinates, yet still expect to use public schools or day cares.

Finally the logic is faulty. First, teachers and workers are required the same level of vaccination as kids to in school. Second, contact with others on occasion does not justify allowing willfully vaccinated children in, or employing those who refuse to abide by the health and safety guidelines. It is a kin saying some people are going to drink and drive any way so there should not be an effort to make drunk driving mandatory.

 

[pnewton]

The reasoning is similar to why I took my son to get the flu vaccine this year (he volunteered). My wife is undergoing chemo and her lowered immune response made the flu very dangerous. We both knew it wasn’t 100%, but you do the best you can to bend the odds for the sake of those you love. For Christians, this is everyone.

 

[Pup7]

Just did a spit-take on my kombucha. Kidding.

I’ve met quite a few nurses who are. (Did you say in another thread that you’re a nurse, or am I thinking of someone else?)

No, that’s me. The militant military one. LOL.

Here’s what put me off that:

In the vaccine documentary on Frontline I mentioned, the director of the NIH did not impress me. I can get all over polio, pertussis - all the big players. I’m all about that. They kill. People die. Babies die.

His reasoning behind giving Hep B was “we can eradicate it”.

Do what? Hep B? It’s an STI, for God’s sake.

Unless you live with 15 or 20 other people, or you travel, or you do what I do for a living or some variant thereof, you don’t need it as a baby.

When you go to college or even high school? Sure. That’s reasonable.

But a baby? No.

I can’t get a satisfactory answer for the reasoning on that one, and I can’t even rationalize its administration.