Catholic teaching on societal roles

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itsjustdave1988:
What do you mean by this:

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What does that have to do with following the Creator’s goal for me, versus the USAF’s plan of “progression?”
According to Catholic doctrine, we have a personal responsibility to follow the Creator’s goal, not our own. Thus, Paul VI states, "In God’s plan, every man is born to seek self-fulfillment, for every human life is called to some task by God. … the individual works his way toward the goal set for him by the Creator.
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This is the authentic meaning of “maximizing God-given talents.”

The USAF may have a plan of progression that is contrary to that of God. If God want’s me to teach, primarily my kids, but then also others in my parish, then that is God’s goal for me, the reason he gave me the gifts he did. If I quit teaching so that I can spend more time trying to get promoted to Lt Col, then in this example, I am NOT authentically maximizing my God-given talents, although I may appear more successful according to the USAF and society.

This presumes that I know best what it is that God is calling me to do, by his actual grace. This also presumes that I have properly assessed what charisms I possess and what is the best use of those charisms in order for me to be a good steward of God’s gifts. I can be wrong. However, I’m pretty sure I know more about God’s calling for me that society or the USAF does.

Ah. I think I see.
 
vern humphrey:
What about it? Are you saying the obligation to maximize ones God-given talents somehow conflicts with ones religious calling?
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I’m actually speaking about myself. I’m very confused right now about what my vocation is. I’ve achieved a moderate amount of worldly success with my talent and have the potential to go further, but feel I have a possible call to the monastic life. I’m not sure if it’s God’s will that I further my worldly talents to their full potential or to leave it behind in favor of becoming a monk or priest.
 
vern humphrey:
How do you get that one does not have a duty to maximize their God-given talent?

Does God not give us these talents?

Does He not expect us to use them?

Does He not command us to help our fellow man?

How do you know when you’ve committed a sin? Most people know themselves pretty well – they know when they’re working hard, and when they’re dogging it.

I would say God is indeed looking for value or growth investments – He has invested in us. And He tells us that straight out:

So it seems He does want us to maximize the talents He has given us (no pun intended.) He wants a return on His investment in us.

So the master was wrong to upbraid the servant who buried his talent?

How does it “get in the way of our loving relationship with God and others” to maximize our God-given talents for the benefit of society?
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How do you know if in Mathew 25:14-30 if the two servants maximized their God given talents? Perhapes they could have made some other decisions and instead of doubling them, they might have tripled the talents? The difference between those two servants and the other was that the two servants where faithful in small matters while the other refused responsibility.

I do not understand how one can actually know how one can in practice maximize ones God-given talents any more than one can in practice maximize ones fuel in ones car. One can try to be as efficient possible though.

You may have a good idea of what “maximizing God-given talents to the benifit of society” means, but it is still rather vauge. One could very well hear that, and understand it too mean its ok to be a workaholic and neglect your responsiblities at home. Could you not say that the workaholic is benifiting society? That person could very well be mislead and think thats what he should do. Or you can skip observering the Sabbath and skipping Mass, due to maximizing one’s talents.
 
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jman507:
How do you know if in Mathew 25:14-30 if the two servants maximized their God given talents? Perhapes they could have made some other decisions and instead of doubling them, they might have tripled the talents? The difference between those two servants and the other was that the two servants where faithful in small matters while the other refused responsibility.
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We know they tried, did they not?
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jman507:
I do not understand how one can actually know how one can in practice maximize ones God-given talents any more than one can in practice maximize ones fuel in ones car. One can try to be as efficient possible though.
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How can we know we’re going to heaven? How can we know we’re in a state of grace? How can we know our last confession was adequate?

We can only try. But we are required to make an honest try.
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jman507:
You may have a good idea of what “maximizing God-given talents to the benifit of society” means, but it is still rather vauge. One could very well hear that, and understand it too mean its ok to be a workaholic and neglect your responsiblities at home.
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A workaholic is a person with an addictive personality – the phenomenon is well-known and has been studied.
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jman507:
Could you not say that the workaholic is benifiting society? That person could very well be mislead and think thats what he should do.
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Measure product, not process. Does the person you have in mind (I assume he’s a real person) actually achieve more than others who aren’t workaholics? Is the sum total of his contribution greater?
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jman507:
Or you can skip observering the Sabbath and skipping Mass, due to maximizing one’s talents.
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That’s like asking if a bank robber is maximizing his talents.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
I read several commentaries on the Parable of the Talents, which have a more spiritual and less literal interpretation. That the servant who buried his talent (which meant large sum of money, not a skill or ability) was punished because he chose to play it safe instead of taking a risk to further the worth of his master…not his own worth. The non-literal interpretation of this being that those who are spiritually lazy and deliberately choose to make life spiritually easy for themselves, when they know they are capable of deeper transformation in Christ… would fail to give the maximum amount of glory to the Father (master). I guess that means to me, we are to do whatever will give the greatest glory to God and to Christ, whether that means maximizing a certain natural skill/ability or not.
 
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kevb:
I read several commentaries on the Parable of the Talents, which have a more spiritual and less literal interpretation.
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There are often multiple messages in Biblical texts.
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kevb:
That the servant who buried his talent (which meant large sum of money, not a skill or ability)
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We know that – which is why I said “no pun intended.”

A talent was a measure of weight – as much as a man could carry, and generally reconned at about 50 lbs. A talent of silver would be about $4,000 in today’s values.
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kevb:
was punished because he chose to play it safe instead of taking a risk to further the worth of his master…not his own worth. The non-literal interpretation of this being that those who are spiritually lazy and deliberately choose to make life spiritually easy for themselves, when they know they are capable of deeper transformation in Christ… would fail to give the maximum amount of glory to the Father (master). I guess that means to me, we are to do whatever will give the greatest glory to God and to Christ, whether that means maximizing a certain natural skill/ability or not.
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Do you think it cannot mean that we are expected to use the talents and abilities God gives us?
 
Are you trying to tell me your worth is your utility divided by your talents?
 
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jman507:
Are you trying to tell me your worth is your utility divided by your talents?
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I’m not sure what you mean by “worth.”

My position is God gives you talents and expects you to use them. We have a duty to help our fellow man, and by maximizing our talents, we achieve that.
 
I just have a problem with the word maximize, you may be using it just fine, but I can see it as being abused.
 
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jman507:
I just have a problem with the word maximize, you may be using it just fine, but I can see it as being abused.
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Give me another word, then.

We’re not all meant to be monks and hermits. Most of us must live in the mundane world – that’s where our talents and callings direct us.

Now imagine a guy who saves his money, takes out a loan, and buys a backhoe. He starts a business installing septic tanks, expands into general plumbing, hires several other people, pays them good wages, and pays more taxes that most of us.

His community is the better for his hard work and initiative.
 
I’d just say one should use their god-given talents to the benifit of society. Or maybe try to best use their god-given talents. Nobody really knows what their max. potential is. I wouldn’t want someone trying to get over-scrupulous and neglect other needed things. We are called to do multiple things. If one just needed to make one product, then it might be eaiser, but we need to do a large variety of things. We need to produce things we need, we need to care for our family, we need to visite the poor and those in prisons, we need to do our devotions and worship.

Besides we are not called to be successful, but faithful. It is a very good thing for a person to beable to build a business and employ a lot of people, but sometimes one can very much do everything just as right and end up not successful. For instance look at Job.
 
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jman507:
I’d just say one should use their god-given talents to the benifit of society. Or maybe try to best use their god-given talents. Nobody really knows what their max. potential is.
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There is not much of anything that we really know. But there are a lot of things we have pretty good ideas about.
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jman507:
I wouldn’t want someone trying to get over-scrupulous and neglect other needed things. We are called to do multiple things. If one just needed to make one product, then it might be eaiser, but we need to do a large variety of things. We need to produce things we need, we need to care for our family, we need to visite the poor and those in prisons, we need to do our devotions and worship.
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I’m not sure what you mean here. If you have many talents and duties, you strive to maximize them all – no one said you should neglect some.
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jman507:
Besides we are not called to be successful, but faithful. It is a very good thing for a person to beable to build a business and employ a lot of people, but sometimes one can very much do everything just as right and end up not successful. For instance look at Job.
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And where would we be if everyone sat down and said, "I know I have the ability, but what if I faaaaail?
 
vern humphrey:
There is not much of anything that we really know. But there are a lot of things we have pretty good ideas about.

I’m not sure what you mean here. If you have many talents and duties, you strive to maximize them all – no one said you should neglect some.

And where would we be if everyone sat down and said, "I know I have the ability, but what if I faaaaail?
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Given what you know about Moses in the first few Chapters of Exodus, would you say that you knew he could lead the Isrealites out of Egypt? You do not know if you will die by this time next year or if you will hit the lottery. I will give you we should be prudent and we should try to do the best with what we have.

And where do you get that I say we should sit down and say, “I know I have the ability, but what if I faaaaaail?” It doesn’t matter if you fail so long as your faithful. You do not have to worry about success and failure, cause in the end God will provide the success.
 
Vern,
Does the person you have in mind (I assume he’s a real person) actually achieve more than others who aren’t workaholics? Is the sum total of his contribution greater?
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Hmmmm…don’t know if this is a good measure, cuz now your measuring against another persons God-given gifts, not your own.

I may very well give more than the next guy, but still could do even more and willfully hold back. Or, I could be giving my all, but what talents I had to begin with was less.
 
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jman507:
Given what you know about Moses in the first few Chapters of Exodus, would you say that you knew he could lead the Isrealites out of Egypt? You do not know if you will die by this time next year or if you will hit the lottery. I will give you we should be prudent and we should try to do the best with what we have.
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That’s pretty much my position.
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jman507:
And where do you get that I say we should sit down and say, “I know I have the ability, but what if I faaaaaail?” It doesn’t matter if you fail so long as your faithful. You do not have to worry about success and failure, cause in the end God will provide the success.
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That’s why the fact that some fail shouldn’t be a consideration. Each of us should do his or her best.
 
Let me pull back for a bit.

The problem I have with saying maximizing is that one may feel that is trying to say that one may feel he is talented at say helping people but on the other hand doesn’t feel talented at praying. He may come off with the idea that he can spend all his time helping people while at the same time neglecting prayers since thats not really a talent of his. There are other people who can pray who are much better at it. But that would be wrong.

I’ll say you might have an idea of maximizing one’s God given talents that is completely inline, but if you leave it at that it might end up giving someone the wrong impression.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Vern,

Hmmmm…don’t know if this is a good measure, cuz now your measuring against another persons God-given gifts, not your own.
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Do some reading up on workaholics. You’ll find it isn’t productive – it’s an avoidance mechanism.
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jman507:
I may very well give more than the next guy, but still could do even more and willfully hold back. Or, I could be giving my all, but what talents I had to begin with was less.
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In the end, you are the best measure of your own abilities (if you are honest with yourself.) But if we use another person as an example (like the workaholic) we cannot use his opinions – because we can’t read his mind. We must use an external yardstick.
 
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jman507:
Let me pull back for a bit.

The problem I have with saying maximizing is that one may feel that is trying to say that one may feel he is talented at say helping people but on the other hand doesn’t feel talented at praying.
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Okay – but he shouldn’t be foolish enough to neglect what talent he has for praying. He should try to maximize that talent, too.

A man can pray while operating a lathe or digging a ditch. And he should.
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jman507:
He may come off with the idea that he can spend all his time helping people while at the same time neglecting prayers since thats not really a talent of his. There are other people who can pray who are much better at it. But that would be wrong.
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The fact that a person can make a foolish mistake doesn’t mean he must. And it certainly doesn’t mean all people must make the same foolish mistake.
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jman507:
I’ll say you might have an idea of maximizing one’s God given talents that is completely inline, but if you leave it at that it might end up giving someone the wrong impression.
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How do you get “Maximizing your God-given talents” to mean “Maximizing only some of your God-given talents and neglecting all the rest?”
 
vern humphrey:
Okay – but he shouldn’t be foolish enough to neglect what talent he has for praying. He should try to maximize that talent, too.

A man can pray while operating a lathe or digging a ditch. And he should.

The fact that a person can make a foolish mistake doesn’t mean he must. And it certainly doesn’t mean all people must make the same foolish mistake.

How do you get “Maximizing your God-given talents” to mean “Maximizing only some of your God-given talents and neglecting all the rest?”
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Perhaps the person believes he can get more jobs for more people if he doesn’t spend his time praying. Thus maximizing his talents getting the most product out of them.
 
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