Catholic to Mormon to Catholic?

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My argument was just a variation of the “it’s true because it’s old” idea that seems to me so prevalent on these boards. I really don’t see how that works.
  • Things that are true don’t cease to be true simply because they are old.
  • Things aren’t true simply because they are new.
But it is real question I have about catholicism. You seem to deny the importance of any kind of “testimony experience” or discount it to the point of blatant ridicule.
Benny Hinn and his flock have “testimony experience” orders of magnitude greater than the LDS. If that’s your measure of authenticity why aren’t you one of them?
 
I’d bet some Catholics here have examined the Book of Mormon.

I recently read Joseph Smith’s account of receiving his revelation from angel.

It had zero inspirational value. It was clearly contrived, patterned off OT writings … but, w/o any of their redeeming qualities.

Perhaps a child born into the faith can grow to accept such an account as believable … but, for an educated adult to read such and accept as ‘gospel’ [or even history] speaks of major credulity.
Actually, the Harry Potter series is closer to biblical truths. Even better, the author does not believe that her books are somehow “revelation.”
 
Let me spell it out for you.

Your religion is built on a lie, well, actually more than one. But the two biggest are 1) the BoM and 2) a great apostasy.

Mormons who all of the sudden see lie #1 (the BoM) often hold onto the belief of lie #2. And continue to use the misinformation they received about Christianity from Mormonism…ie, it’s all WRONG. You promote this when you say, if the BoM is false, so is the Bible (or specifically Jesus.)
About two years ago, I noticed that most ex-mormons seem to be atheists. I’ve never been a mormon, so my theory is based on my conversations with them. It seems to me their religion is built on the two great lies you listed, plus a faith only approach. No reason, just believe. The apostasy seems to be mostly an attack on Catholicism and attack is what they do when they can’t explain themselves. When they finally realize the fraud played on them by Joseph Smith, there is nothing left to believe in. When faith in Mormonism is gone, so is faith in anything else, especially the bible and orthodoxy. Am I close?
 
I love answering my own questions. 😉

Just found this thread, which already exists, and it seems to overwhelmingly justify my point that Catholics believe their church is true because it is old.

Am I wrong?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=236912
Yes, you are. You have been lead to believe the machinations and plagiarism of one man who was a self-proclaimed prohet. True Christians have always believed in the revealed Son of the Living God. Your problem is that you cannot disconnect Christ from Joseph Smith - and therein lies the tragedy of the “great deception”

God has always sent many prophets, over many centuries, culminating with His Son, the Christ. The BoM “revelation” was never prophesied, and its credibility rests 100% on JS. The lack of historical, literary and physical evidence for the Meso-American wars is an acid that has corroded the LDS foundation.

Lack of multiple prophets indicates that it is a “different gospel” - exactly that which we were warned to avoid.
 
Let me spell it out for you.

Your religion is built on a lie, well, actually more than one. But the two biggest are 1) the BoM and 2) a great apostasy.

Mormons who all of the sudden see lie #1 (the BoM) often hold onto the belief of lie #2. And continue to use the misinformation they received about Christianity from Mormonism…ie, it’s all WRONG. You promote this when you say, if the BoM is false, so is the Bible (or specifically Jesus.)

You yourself are displaying this tendency. The only difference is that you still believe in lie #1. Ask yourself, if you no longer believed in the BoM, what religion would you be?

Would you deny Christ?

Do you believe that denying the BoM is the same as denying Christ? Do you believe that denying Joseph Smith is the same as denying Christ?

If you answered yes to either of those last two questions…all it would take for you to become an atheist is to lose your belief in either the BoM or JS.

Further, C2M2C has already stated the dilemma of anyone who finds the religion they are in to be one grand deception. How do you know you aren’t being deceived, again? You keep saying that it isn’t possible to NOT believe in the BoM and still believe in Jesus Christ. Which is, in essence, telling C2M2C he has two choices, find a way to believe in Mormonism, or stop believing in Our Lord Jesus Christ altogether.

For lack of better word, it’s a major fubar. And you should be careful about leading people AWAY from Christ.

(In contrast, Christians base their belief entirely in one man, Jesus Christ. Which you keep trying to prove as a false belief!)
Excellent! 👍 Never mind the great apostasy, the LDS perpetuates the “Great Deception”. He is surprised that you know his destination before he suspects it himself.
 
Book of Mormon recap:

What we have seen from mfbukowski’s posts to date and his links to articles from FAIR is this:

The BoM says that
8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.
9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall prosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves.
  • 2 Nephi 1:8-9
In other words, the Nephites and Lamanites had the entire North and South American continents to themselves. They were all alone in the New World. They also “multiplied exceedingly” and “did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.” (Helaman 3:8)

1830: Joseph Smith and the LDS taught that the Nephites and Lamanites were alone in the New World and inhabited the entire North and south American continents as the BoM says. After all, it reports battles wherein hundreds of thousands of soldiers died.

Now: To counter the DNA evidence that there was no Semitic DNA in Native American (“Lamanite”) populations, the LDS teach that the Nephites and Lamanites were a small population restricted to a small area in Central America and that they intermarried with the locals (?) and their DNA was “absorbed”.

The BoM says:
15 And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.
  • 2 Nephi 5:15
8 And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the land, and became exceedingly rich in gold, and in silver, and in precious things, and in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of war.
  • Jarom 1:8
1830: Joseph Smith and the LDS taught that the Nephites worked in metals as the BoM says.

Now: Because it is unreasonable that a society that made and used metal tools and weapons would leave no metal artifacts for archaeologists to find, the LDS now teach that the only steel weapon was the one that Nephi brought from the Old World. Sure, the BoM says they worked in metals, but they were really just exaggerating for the sake of literary style.

The BoM reports that the Nephites drove horse-drawn chariots:
Alma 18: 9-10, 12
9 And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy ahorses. Now the king had commanded his servants, previous to the time of the watering of their flocks, that they should prepare his horses and chariots, and conduct him forth to the land of Nephi; for there had been a bgreat cfeast appointed at the land of Nephi, by the father of Lamoni, who was king over all the land.
10 Now when king Lamoni heard that Ammon was preparing his horses and his achariots he was more astonished, because of the faithfulness of Ammon, saying: Surely there has not been any servant among all my servants that has been so faithful as this man; for even he doth remember all my commandments to execute them.
• • •
12 And it came to pass that when Ammon had made ready the horses and the chariots for the king and his servants, he went in unto the king, and he saw that the acountenance of the king was changed; therefore he was about to return out of his presence.
2 Ne. 12: 7
7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their atreasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.
Alma 20: 6
6 Now when Lamoni had heard this he caused that his servants should make ready his ahorses and his chariots.
3 Ne. 3: 22
22 And it came to pass in the *seventeenth year, in the latter end of the year, the proclamation of Lachoneus had gone forth throughout all the face of the land, and they had taken their ahorses, and their chariots, and their cattle, and all their flocks, and their herds, and their grain, and all their substance, and did march forth by thousands and by tens of thousands, until they had all gone forth to the bplace which chad been appointed that they should gather themselves together, to defend themselves against their enemies.
1830: The Nephites had horses and chariots.

Now: Since scientists now know that there were no horses or wheeled vehicles in pre-Columbian America, well, they didn’t really have horses or chariots. They really had sleds pulled by deer and tapirs. The Mormon god doesn’t know how to translate the Reformed Egyptian words for sled or deer, so he said “horse” instead.

1830: The BoM was “the most correct book of any on earth”, translated by “the gift and power of God”.

Now: Not so much. All of the historical, cultural and demographic claims made in the BoM were exaggerations for the sake of literary style or mistakes in the “gift and power” of the Mormon god. The “most correct book” is now the least correct book.

Funny that the bible has no such difficulties. The more the bible is challenged and investigated by historians, scientists and archaeologists, the more it is proven to be historically, culturally and demographically correct.

Hmmmm. :ehh:
 
About two years ago, I noticed that most ex-Mormons seem to be atheists. I’I’ve never been a Mormon, so my theory is based on my conversations with them. It seems to me their religion is built on the two great lies you listed, plus a faith only approach. No reason, just believe. The apostasy seems to be mostly an attack on Catholicism and attack is what they do when they can’t explain themselves. When they finally realize the fraud played on them by Joseph Smith, there is nothing left to believe in. When faith in Mormonism is gone, so is faith in anything else, especially the bible and orthodoxy. Am I close?
Well kinda’. Mormonism isn’t just a religion, it’s a lifestyle, especially in Utah. Everything you do is centered on the church. Your friends are Ward members, many activities are church based, hours of church on Sundays, potentially hours of church work during the week and on weekends depending on what your calling is (all Mormons have “callings” which are basically church responsibilities), gossip among neighbors and Ward members is about other Ward members, everyone in your Ward knows everything about you (for better or worse), and the list goes on and on just to touch on a few. Unfortunately Mormons are not too kind to ex Mormons, so if you do discover something else, or new, or different or discover what may be a less than glowing history the first thing you think is that if “I’m not Mormon I’m going to be an outcast, I’ll be banished!!”.

Being where I am right now, I know that if I continue down the road I’m on I will lose a lot of friends. Not a big deal for me, but a little more serious for my wife and four kids. Mormons are great to non members because they see a potential convert, but the ex Mormons are just not treated well at all, not only by friends and Ward members, but often times family members. So there is some fear with leaving the church. It may sound childish, but the ex Mormons on this site will testify to the truthfulness of this.

The other issue, at least for me is that Mormonism is “bigger than life”, if you will. It makes big promises. I am devastated at the thought of not being married for “time and eternity” as is my wife, just to mention one big let down. Now this has been responded to in the past on this thread, and I do understand the difference, but to a Mormon, “all time and eternity” is a very, very big deal. To find out that is not the case is just devastating.

I really can’t think of an analogy that could convey or illustrate the point, but to find out that these beliefs are not based on, what I see as a solid foundation, you almost want to just give up. “To hell with it, I got taken once, I’m not going to get fooled again.” So I can see how a lot of ex’s could end up atheists.

I have always believed in God. I always felt as though he and I had a relationship. So for me it’s not an issue of turning away from that but finding out what he wants me to do. And to be honest I need something a little more concrete to go on. That’s why I am here. There is history that is provable. I know that faith has to be in the equation, but I can’t accept that it’s all faith, especially when there is so much Mormon history that doesn’t add up and in some cases just flat out makes no sense.
 
Well kinda’. Mormonism isn’t just a religion, it’s a lifestyle, especially in Utah. Everything you do is centered on the church. Your friends are Ward members, many activities are church based, hours of church on Sundays, potentially hours of church work during the week and on weekends depending on what your calling is (all Mormons have “callings” which are basically church responsibilities), gossip among neighbors and Ward members is about other Ward members, everyone in your Ward knows everything about you (for better or worse), and the list goes on and on just to touch on a few. Unfortunately Mormons are not too kind to ex Mormons, so if you do discover something else, or new, or different or discover what may be a less than glowing history the first thing you think is that if “I’m not Mormon I’m going to be an outcast, I’ll be banished!!”.
Being where I am right now, I know that if I continue down the road I’m on I will lose a lot of friends. Not a big deal for me, but a little more serious for my wife and four kids. Mormons are great to non members because they see a potential convert, but the ex Mormons are just not treated well at all, not only by friends and Ward members, but often times family members. So there is some fear with leaving the church. It may sound childish, but the ex Mormons on this site will testify to the truthfulness of this.
I hear what you are saying Bro, and I really feel your pain and anxiety about that issue. I try to put myself in your shoes and try to imagine leaving the Catholic church and all that it means to me. But, If I left the Catholic Church, I would be leaving something true and vital. I KNOW this, and it would be that much harder to leave. I know that mormonism IS a lifestyle and that more than doctrine is wrapped up in it. But that in itself is nothing, compared to your life in eternity. “Celestial marriage”, Celestial family togetherness", all great selling points, but unfortunately, untrue. And measured against the riches offered by the Church that Jesus Christ Himself founded, pretty small potatoes. The catholic Church does not offer the bells and whistles that mormonism does, the “temple ceremonies”, the “Exaltation”, the “Celestial this and that”, but it does offer the Truth, not a bunch of hokum designed to attract the eye. The Truth. The assurance of Jesus Christ Himself, the real deal.
 
C2,

Prayer is what got me through. Without losing my friends and family relationships. (Either that or I’m just lucky, or incredibly blind).

Seriously, Trust God. Pray to Him as you always have and ask Him to help you move forward without anger, anxiety or bitterness. The rest is up to everyone else and their ability to either accept or not, that you are being true to where God is leading you.

If you can, find an RCIA class. Go and learn. It might help you sort things out.

God bless,
Tami
 
Catholics aren’t “testimony bearers”, not in the sense that you are looking for. So, you are searching for something that isn’t there.

We speak fondly of our Church and defend her because to us, Church and Christ are the same thing. I don’t mean in the sense that we worship the Church. I mean, Christ founded this Church, and that tie is a spiritual tie. You could call it a “sealing” if that helps you conceptualize what we believe.

To the importance of history and faith…Sacred Tradition is what you are comparing to Jewish Tradition. This is a good and fair comparison. Mormons (and other Christians) look to the Bible only (Mormons do when conversing with Christians) for guidance of how Christ’s Church should function, in all ways. Administrative, ecclesiastical, sacramental, everything.

But we understand that Sacred Tradition came first and that the Bible is a product of Sacred Tradition. It would be like you, having passed down important information in your family, exactly how things are done and why, and in every generation there are one or two people who are trained very carefully in this knowledge, which they share freely with everyone in the family. If someone wanted to know something about this family tradition, you would go to the person who was taught and learn from them.

Then, you notice that some family members are getting something wrong, and you start to worry that the information you have will be lost or even corrupted by what the other family members are doing, or not doing. So you write down everything you know. And the other people in your family who are knowledgable of your traditions and practices, write down everything they know, and we put all these writings together as a reference for everyone to go to when conflicts regarding these long-held traditions and practices arise.

This is the Bible. It came out of Sacred Tradition. Sacred, because what the Apostles knew, they passed on to others. Many others. And those people passed it on, and on, and on and so forth.

The Catholic Church has carefully cared for and kept the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. We call this knowledge the deposit of faith, or Sacred Tradition. You call it history. Historically speaking, it is astounding. And Catholics see very clearly the guidance of the Holy Spirit in this endeavor, otherwise, we know that all would have been lost many hundreds of years ago.

Church history, the supremely important history that has carried the teachings of Jesus forward through millenia, is to us a witness of God’s hand in His Church. So when we point to Church history, we are pointing to Sacred Tradition, to a Sacred deposit of faith, which is a witness of the Holy Spirit, and also a witness of Jesus Christ.

All of this exists for one purpose, and that is to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. His message of Salvation that Jesus died for all, and His Sacrifice brings about eternal life for everyone.

The deposit of faith that we hold as Sacred, what you call history, is one of the greatest charges of Christ’s Church. Contained in this deposit is everything Christ taught. Everything. And all the knowledge that people have sought regarding this crowning Revelation. It includes the Sacraments and the records of Sacraments given; baptism, confirmation, first communion, holy orders, as this too is a witness of Christ’s work through the ages. And here, we see the Holy Spirit as much as we do in our prayers that are answered.

But, back to this personal or individual witness you are looking for. Catholics experience this every day if not every hour. It is very profound and very personal and we don’t find it necessary or comfortable even to share our personal relationships or experiences with God. And honestly, I find that words fail even the attempt at such a thing.

We just know, that the person who is in deep prayer next to us is in communion with God, at a very deep and personal level. We know, that when we receive the Blood and Body of Christ that every person is in communion with God and with each other. And when we do talk about these things, we use vocabulary such as Sacred, Holy, Miraculous, and since we have experienced what these words mean, we know what people are talking about.

All that (a lot) being said, I understand how it is looking from the outside in. I used to sit at mass, watching people, thinking they knew some secret that I didn’t. Or, that they “got” something that I didn’t.

You can believe, that when I say God lead me to the Catholic Church, that I mean the Holy Spirit guided me to where I should be. And millions of Catholics will tell you the same thing, that the Holy Spirit brings unmeasured guidance to them. We understand this, and we understand that this same Holy Spirit is guiding Christ’s Church, in the same way that He guides us.

But, you won’t ever find that we describe this as a “feeling”, because it isn’t a feeling. It is a knowledge, that could only come from outside ourselves, and could come from nowhere within.
 
Being where I am right now, I know that if I continue down the road I’m on I will lose a lot of friends. Not a big deal for me, but a little more serious for my wife and four kids. Mormons are great to non members because they see a potential convert, but the ex Mormons are just not treated well at all, not only by friends and Ward members, but often times family members. So there is some fear with leaving the church. It may sound childish, but the ex Mormons on this site will testify to the truthfulness of this.

The other issue, at least for me is that Mormonism is “bigger than life”, if you will. It makes big promises. I am devastated at the thought of not being married for “time and eternity” as is my wife, just to mention one big let down. Now this has been responded to in the past on this thread, and I do understand the difference, but to a Mormon, “all time and eternity” is a very, very big deal. To find out that is not the case is just devastating.

I really can’t think of an analogy that could convey or illustrate the point, but to find out that these beliefs are not based on, what I see as a solid foundation, you almost want to just give up. “To hell with it, I got taken once, I’m not going to get fooled again.” So I can see how a lot of ex’s could end up atheists.

I have always believed in God. I always felt as though he and I had a relationship. So for me it’s not an issue of turning away from that but finding out what he wants me to do. And to be honest I need something a little more concrete to go on. That’s why I am here. There is history that is provable. I know that faith has to be in the equation, but I can’t accept that it’s all faith, especially when there is so much Mormon history that doesn’t add up and in some cases just flat out makes no sense.
Those who follow Jesus have no need to fear. He is our kind and gentle Master who offers His Love. “My peace I give you.” He calms the waters. Hold Him in your heart, and pray to Him. He will guide you and keep you and your family safe. Pray for the courage you need to follow where He leads.

I know the celestial marriage and together eternally is a big one. You lose nothing and gain everything when you follow the Way of our Lord. Trust him.

Your heart is searching for truth. Pray for God’s guidance. He knows your every need and He will not abandon you.
 
C2M2C (hey, I just now understood your user name: Catholic 2 (to) Mormon 2 (to) Catholic - cool! ;))

I haven’t read through the pages of responses you received, so I apologize if this isn’t helpful, but I thought I’d offer you a bit of my own journey in case it helps.

I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic grade school and high school, but then a public university. While in college, I started to doubt my faith. I kept up appearances and never missed Mass on Sunday. I (curiously) maintained my belief that the Church was right in all her moral teachings (no contraception, no abortion, no getting drunk or doing drugs, no sex before marriage, etc.). However, I began to have serious doubts (in this order) that (1) the Bible was the inerrant Word of God; (2) the Catholic Church was a divine institution established by Christ to teach with authority and without error; and (3) Jesus was God. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to believe. I did. I simply felt that I couldn’t in the light of sound reason.

To make a long story short (or at least try to ;)), I found a great Catholic community that went a long way to changing my perspective on “religious people”, but it still wasn’t enough. I had the same questions running through my head: How can I know that any of this is true?

One day, one of my new Catholic friends invited me over and we talked a little. I didn’t share with him what I was going through, but he shared with me his faith. When it was time for me to go, we prayed together (he did all the talking). I left and went to the local Catholic church to try to sort out all these things in my head. On the one hand, I just couldn’t understand how these three things could be true. But on the other, these new Catholic friends (who were intelligent people) were so on fire for Jesus. Surely they had wrestled with some of these same doubts.

Once I got to the Church, I was met with another of my new friends who was on his way out. As we passed, he simply said, “It’s all yours”. There was no one else in the Church as I walked up towards the sanctuary. It was night and the only light in the Church was a spotlight illuminating the Tabernacle, beckoning me to sit before it.

As I sat there, seemingly alone, I felt the unmistakable presence of God. I prayed for faith and (I know it sounds “Protestant”) I felt Jesus come into my heart. I knew right then that the Presence I felt was Jesus’ Presence in the Eucharist before me in the Tabernacle. I still wasn’t sure how it could be true, but at that moment, I knew that Jesus was God. And if He was God, I suspected that the Catholic Church was also the true Church. And if the Catholic Church was the true Church, that meant the Bible must also be without error. It was a reversal from my loss of faith. (To this day, I find it interesting the order in which things broke down and the order in which my faith returned).

On my way out of the Church, in the vestibule book rack, I found a copy of Peter Kreeft’s Yes or No?: Straight Answers to Tought Questions About Christianity. Over the next couple of weeks, I began to read that book in Church (not during Mass ;)) a chapter at a time (until I finally figured I should just buy the thing :)).

One by one, that book answered all of the questions I had been struggling with for so long. Jesus wanted me to take that first step in faith before he answered all my doubts. In this way, I knew that I was really choosing Him for His sake, not simply because I had my intellectual curiosities satisfied. This is why the traditional definition of theology as “faith seeking understanding” has always meant so much for me. Once I had the faith, then the understanding came so much more easily.

(continued in next post)
 
(continued from previous post)

So what is my friendly advice to you? 🙂 I would recommend praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Ask God to increase your faith and your understanding. He will! I also heartily recommend Peter Kreeft’s book. 👍

Some questions to ask yourself and to pray for guidance on are:

(1) Who is Jesus? C.S. Lewis says (and Kreeft reiterates) that Jesus is either Lord, Liar or Lunatic. He cannot simply be a “good man” or even a “great prophet”. He made claims that He is God. So either (a) he really is God, (b) he knows he’s not God and is lying about it, or (c) he thinks he is God (even though he’s not) because he’s crazy (i.e. a lunatic). A “good man” would not claim to be God if he is not.

(2) Who or what is the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church likewise makes some pretty bold claims about Herself. She claims to be the Church established by Jesus and entrusted to the Apostles and their successors. The Church is either right or wrong on this point. If the Church is right, then that means that all the teachings of the Church can all be trusted. If not, then every single teaching is suspect. My follow up question to this is: would Jesus leave us to fend for ourselves?

(3) What is the nature of the Bible? Is the Bible really the Word of God in human language? Can it be trusted to be without error? It is either without error and can be trusted in everything, or it is not without error and cannot be trusted on anything. And the question remains, who designated which books are without error (and are part of the Bible) and which ones are not (and thus are not part of the Bible)? Of course, the answer to this ties into the last question as the Church is the one claiming the authority to make this designation.

The most important thing you can do is to pray and pray often. Yes, we are fallible human beings and we cannot always trust our emotions. And, yes, there are spirits out there besides the Holy Spirit who try to mislead us. That’s why it’s not an overnight thing. Even with my experience of a moment of profound grace, that moment by itself would not have been sustaining. It was only the weeks (and months and years) of prayer and study that followed which confirmed that what I experienced in that moment was authentic. We test all things and hold fast to that which is good. Don’t be afraid to give yourself time to figure all this out.

Well, that’s my contribution. Hope it can be of some help to you on your journey. It will likely be a difficult road for you, but God will provide all the necessary graces. You just need to ask and accept (I know, I know, easier said than done).
 
Rebecca and Joe

Amazing, amazing posts. Thank you very much.

I notice both of you have had experiences like the ones I have been talking about. Joe yours parallels mine pretty closely. I think we all have to “go with” these experiences, because getting one is a treasure and gift from God, and once you know, you know.

Of course rationally, we say “but than what church is true?” “They can’t both be true – that I should be Mormon and they should be Catholic”

We never know what the Lord has in store for us. I think He teaches us in the best way we will understand for where we are at the moment.

I needed to be in a church that is based on spiritual experience, perhaps because as you have seen, I am such a skeptical person. You all think I am following atheist philosophies and will become an atheist. If I haven’t seen it felt it or touched it, I don’t believe. My experiences have been like seeing feeling and touching, and I know they are from God, and I know that He will never abandon me. It is not a question of me abandoning Him. And I know that Jesus is the Christ, because He has healed me inside and out. I know that.

You needed to be in a church that is based on history. (Not to admit that yours is not based on experience and mine is not based on history – it is a difference in emphasis) I really believe that God teaches us in different schools

Actually this belief is an outgrowth of Mormon doctrine in itself. We do not believe in “blind obedience” to the prophet, but that we need to have our own personal testimony of the fact that the prophet is a true prophet. For us, in your terms, conscience is paramount

I think coming to Christ is the main thing. Benny Hinn I don’t know about-- but I guess that whole traditon may work for some people-- I just wish they would not be… well, I am trying to be positive here.

I suppose this feeling on this thread will shortly return to it’s usual level, but for me, I want to say that I am glad that at least among a few of us, I think we have for once really communicated what is in our hearts. Thanks very much Joe and Rebecca
 
But, you won’t ever find that we describe this as a “feeling”, because it isn’t a feeling. It is a knowledge, that could only come from outside ourselves, and could come from nowhere within.
I totally agree. You have captured the essence of it, as near as you can in words
 
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