Catholic Women in Germany Demand Reform

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catholic03

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"Deacons and priestesses as well as “bishops, cardinals and popes” were needed: women across Germany have collected over 130,000 signatures for a “gender-equitable church” - and will hand them over to the Presidium of the Synodal Way…

… The kfd had recently described the Pope letter to the Amazon Synod as disappointing . “The present paper is a blow to all women who have hoped for a strong signal for equality in the Catholic Church,” said theologian and deputy kfd federal chairwoman Agnes Wuckelt. She called it “unbearable that the official church continues to deny women equal rights and demote them to service providers based on biological arguments”. The KDFB was also disappointed with the statements about women in the church . “The Pope’s statements in this regard are extremely paternalistic and disappointing,” said KDFB President Maria Flachsbarth".

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I wish that people would accept that the Church’s doctrine cannot change. If they want what they are asking for, why don’t they just switch to a different religion?
 
I think many are, or at least are ceasing to be active Catholics.

Let’s be honest, the messaging from the Church is at times outright insulting. Basically it comes down to “your most important vocation is as a mother, or an actual or effective nun.”
 
Do they realize the Church isn’t a democracy? Or, they just don’t care about that little detail?

If these types of movements continue to grow, I could envision a split into a liberal Catholic Church (without a Pope?) and the traditional church remaining business as usual. What are they really trying to accomplish?
 
Pattylt said:
Do they realize the Church isn’t a democracy? Or, they just don’t care about that little detail?

If these types of movements continue to grow, I could envision a split into a liberal Catholic Church (without a Pope?) and the traditional church remaining business as usual. What are they really trying to accomplish?
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They’re annoyed that the Church is not giving into modern society.

There are already ‘liberal Catholic’ churches not in communion with Rome. I think they should go and join one of them if the Church’s teachings annoy them so much.
 
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niceatheist said:
Let’s be honest, the messaging from the Church is at times outright insulting. Basically it comes down to “your most important vocation is as a mother, or an actual or effective nun.”
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That’s not true. Women are very important to the Church and it is not at all insulting to say that becoming a mother, wife, or nun is God’s will.
 
niceatheist said:
Let’s be honest, the messaging from the Church is at times outright insulting. Basically it comes down to “your most important vocation is as a mother, or an actual or effective nun.”
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Well, that’s not what the message is. I mean I’m not a Catholic myself and I seem to understand it. But that would be the message they’re getting if they’re wilfully ignorant and too lazy to read up on the matter.
 
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So you say. Ahem, what about men? Men can either marry or be unmarried and celibate, right?
Men can be priests true. But priests, contrary to modern opinion, are not ‘the ones with the power’ or ‘the ones making the rules’. Priests have the difficult job of not ‘making the rules’ but PREACHING the rules. Rules which people want to break, don’t want to hear, don’t want applied to them, feel are outmoded, unfair, etc. Rules from God, not ‘humans’.

Priests not only worry about their own souls, but the souls of the people entrusted to their care.

Priests don’t get to choose, for the most part, where they want to go. They go where they are told to serve.

My parish priest serves three parishes and a fourth mission and has at least 100 miles a day or more round trip and that’s just for daily and weekend Masses, not to mention specific duties the diocese has assigned to him, and ‘outside of Mass’ activities for the parishes, school events, etc. etc. How much time does he get to go around using his ‘power’ over the laity?
 
niceatheist said:
Women really only have two vocations, as if were; motherhood and unmarried celibacy.
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Where is that stated in the Catholic catechism? Last time I checked the Vatican hasn’t banned women from working as engineers, teachers or lawyers.
niceatheist said:
Lawyers running the show, set roles for everyone and humanity become cogs in a cosmic machine where most have no say in the most fundamental aspects of their life.
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That’s pretty much everything in life for everyone but the privileged few like big CEOs.
 
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Baloney. Who are these ‘lawyers” anyway? Do you object to lawyers in the Church only, or are those lawyers in secular life a problem too? What do you mean, ‘set roles’? How many people in the world have freedom to ‘choose’ their roles in life, and what exactly does the Church ‘forbid’ to women only? The priesthood? You mean the opportunity to live a celibate life at the beck and call of others? If you want to think that living and loving, no matter one’s race, or sex, can’t involve an obedience to a loving God because He supposedly doesn’t treat everyone equally, look long and hard at how equally YOU are treating those whose beliefs differ from yours. If you think a Christian is a cog with ‘no say’, how much say do you have in your life? What purpose do you have in your life? Suppose you live a life of moderate enjoyment and don’t actively do anything really hateful and then you just ‘pooff’ into the great cosmic void; you were far more of a cog in a cosmic machine and had no say in YOUR life than we Christians!
 
Well you know, only a very tiny fraction of men are priests or monks. So the great majority of MEN would be considered ‘second class’ in the church if ‘fully human’ means ‘able to be a priest’. Because frankly other than that—which I don’t think I have to remind you is not a ‘man-made teaching’ of the Church but rather a divine decision of God Himsef—exactly how does the Church ‘make women second-class humans?”
 
stpurl said:
Because frankly other than that—which I don’t think I have to remind you is not a ‘man-made teaching’ of the Church but rather a divine decision of God Himsef—exactly how does the Church ‘make women second-class humans?”
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It isn’t anywhere near a woman being a priest.
It’s the general attitudes of both women and men in the Church towards women.

Many Catholics have forgotten that God has entrusted the human being to women through her femininity (wisdom?). In doing so, we forget while it was a woman that sinned first (Eve), it is also a woman (Mama Mary) who is Theotokos, and in Christ’s open-armed welcome to women as His followers, women were also the very humans to walk and wait with Christ during His Passion, and were the first to greet Him at the Resurrection. In other words, the Christian people need to step up their respect for the dignity of women in the role of Christ’s saving gospel of humanity.

http://www.vatican.va/content/john-...f_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem.html

http://www.vatican.va/content/john-...95/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women.html

I see where women are expected to be a man’s little “mini-me”. Let men be men and women be women. They need to listen to each other with love and charity.
 
But it isn’t the Church’s teachings is it? It’s like the chicken and the egg —are individual Catholics in the Church treating ‘women as second class’ because that’s a Catholic teaching or practice, or because it’s how they personally feel or were taught ‘outside’ the Church?

IOW, instead of saying, “The Church treats women like second-class humans”, you’re really saying, “Catholics sometimes treat women like second class humans’. You could as easily say Americans do this, or Europeans, or atheists, or bankers, or street sweepers. . .it isn’t something that is part of the ‘this is what you need to believe to be “X”, it is something that individuals choose to do, often in spite of the beliefs of whatever ‘group’ they belong to which often (on paper or vocally) flatly contradict same.

Most Americans would say that they are egalitarian and champion women, but that isn’t the actual experience most women in America go through, right? But we don’t go around and lump ‘all Americans’ as jerks simply by their “Americanness’. Why do that with the Church?
 
MamaJewel said:
(Not that I’m saying I expect female priests anytime soon, although I wouldn’t have a problem with it.)
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It saddens me not at all to say that women have never been priests, will be never be priests, and cannot be priests.

The Church has ruled definitively on this. The Church has no power to ordain women and to do so would merely be a false simulation.
 
DMorgan56 said:
To the German Womens, Try the Lutherans. They have what you apparently want.
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Not all Lutherans ordain women. Those who escaped a forced union with other Protestants done by a Prussian king certainly don’t.
 
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catholic03 said:
It saddens me not at all to say that women have never been priests, will be never be priests, and cannot be priests.
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Junia was an apostle incarcerated at the same time at Paul. Romans 16:7.
catholic03 said:
The Church has ruled definitively on this. The Church has no power to ordain women and to do so would merely be a false simulation.
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The Church has established the groundwork the way it did with the understanding that historically, women weren’t priests. However, if the Church were to obtain irrefutable evidence to the contrary, it would not be a false simulation to open the door to the possibility of female priests serving in the capacity in which they might have worked during earlier times.
 
Unfortunately, Junia was not a priest.

Unfortunately for the wishes of some, the Church has NO AUTHORITY TO ORDAIN WOMEN.

Unfortunately, we are all human. We make mistakes. People in the Church can make mistakes. BUT that doesn’t mean we can say, “Oh, Father X or Bishop Y or ‘the Inquisition’ made errors in some cases. That proves that the Church itself can be wrong. It can change 180 degrees. It can ‘declare’ something wrong one day, and right the next.”

It sounds so logical, right? But it’s so wrong.

If “The Church” is just like ‘any person within it’ then we have no protection from going off the rails, and what is ‘right’ at one point in history can be ‘wrong’ in another, and we need to change teaching based not on God’s words but on the fallible human understanding of whoever deems “A” is ‘right’, right now.

We don’t need authority, WE are the authority. There is no ‘objective’ truth, there is only truth as it appears to a person based on that person’s experience and desires.

In fact, we aren’t in Christianity at all. We’re in ‘Christianity as “I” define it at any given point and in any way “I” choose to take it.
 
I was approached by KFD supporters just this past Sunday.

More shocking than this was the fact that the Priest allowed their flyer stand in the narthex.

Left-leaning Catholicism is pushing hard in Germany. 😦
 
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