C
cheddarsox
Guest
E.E.N.S.:
- Status
E
E.E.N.S
Guest
Cheddar, I guess I don’t can’t relate with you on this one. When I left my previous faith (before becoming Catholic) I was not sad that I was leaving that faith, on the contrary I was happy that I had found the Truth. I didn’t think that I had made Jesus or Mary cry, on the contrary, I believe they rejoiced.
Oh well.
Oh well.
C
cheddarsox
Guest
Again, I understand, and accept that the church teaches against pantheism. I am not pretending to be anything I am not. I am outside the church. I am under no delusions either about what pantheism is or the church’s teachings on it.
There are many varieties of pantheism. I cannot answer for what everyone who calls themself a pantheist believes. It is not an organized religion. I can only speak for my own beliefs,and for the beliefs of those I am in fellowship with. If you are interested in my beliefs, feel free to PM me. If you would rather just rail on about the concept of pantheism in it’s myriad forms, go at it, but don’t pretend to be in discussion with me. To be in discussion means to listen as well as speak.
cheddar
C
cheddarsox
Guest
Toby,
The link you provided gave some very good information on pantheism, but nowhere did it claim that pantheists consider trees and rabbits to be God.
Where did you get your notions of pantheism?
As you can see, by reading your link, it is rather more complex than equating one tiny bit of creation with the whole of divinity.
cheddar
The link you provided gave some very good information on pantheism, but nowhere did it claim that pantheists consider trees and rabbits to be God.
Where did you get your notions of pantheism?
As you can see, by reading your link, it is rather more complex than equating one tiny bit of creation with the whole of divinity.
cheddar
M
Matthew_25
Guest
Hi folks,
Thanks to all for their responses to the issues I raised. No one has attacked me personally, but rather my opinions and that is the way democracy should work (even in the Body of Christ). So thank you for your disagreement!
I think I should re-iterate that I am not Catholic. I am a non-denominational and something of a Christian contemplative.
My Christian heroes- besides Jesus of course - are St. Francis of Assisi and St. John of the Cross.
I think I need to clarify something. I deeply respect Catholics and I feel a close kindred spirit with Catholics in very many respects. We have much more in common than we don’t have in common. My heart was touched to see the Catholic Church coming to the defense of Terri Schiavo. The Catholic Church is unwavering in its defense of the unborn.
Recently, I was in charge of raising money for a family in my town who had lost their home and had become homeless. Catholics and the Catholic churches in my town were MOST generous, outgiving protestants 4-1.
Catholics are GIVING people, Lord bless you!
This issue about Mary really fascinates me because I have a background and a degree in psychology. In the early days of Christianity - before the Scriptures were accessible to most believers in the new faith - I can see a bunch of early believers sitting together in a home. One of the folks says, “Hey, in this religion we have Jesus, who is the Son. I have a son. We have His Father. I have a father. Now, I have a father and I have a son and …well, I guess maybe we also need a MOTHER. Man, maybe we need a mother in this religion!”
Now, In saying this, I do not mean to offend anyone. I am simply stating how I have theorized and reflected on this role of Mary. She is undoubtedly a great role model for all Christians and she is undoubtedly given great honor in heaven and has a special place there.
But, as I said before, the problem I have is with this “Mary is your mother” concept. I 've heard the one mention in Scripture, but Jesus was likely talking to that one individual (concerned about the well-being of his mother after His death) and not meaning it in a broad, corporate sense. The absence of any mention of Mary and of “Marian” doctrine in all of the Biblical writings of Apostle Paul and the New Testament books of James, Peter, John, Jude speaks volumes to me.
So, I leave this post with a question for anyone. Why is Mary not mentioned in these books if she is our mother ? Wouldn’t that be an important enough spiritual role that she and her role in the Church would have been discussed at great length by those Biblical writers?
Thanks to all for their responses to the issues I raised. No one has attacked me personally, but rather my opinions and that is the way democracy should work (even in the Body of Christ). So thank you for your disagreement!
I think I should re-iterate that I am not Catholic. I am a non-denominational and something of a Christian contemplative.
My Christian heroes- besides Jesus of course - are St. Francis of Assisi and St. John of the Cross.
I think I need to clarify something. I deeply respect Catholics and I feel a close kindred spirit with Catholics in very many respects. We have much more in common than we don’t have in common. My heart was touched to see the Catholic Church coming to the defense of Terri Schiavo. The Catholic Church is unwavering in its defense of the unborn.
Recently, I was in charge of raising money for a family in my town who had lost their home and had become homeless. Catholics and the Catholic churches in my town were MOST generous, outgiving protestants 4-1.
Catholics are GIVING people, Lord bless you!
This issue about Mary really fascinates me because I have a background and a degree in psychology. In the early days of Christianity - before the Scriptures were accessible to most believers in the new faith - I can see a bunch of early believers sitting together in a home. One of the folks says, “Hey, in this religion we have Jesus, who is the Son. I have a son. We have His Father. I have a father. Now, I have a father and I have a son and …well, I guess maybe we also need a MOTHER. Man, maybe we need a mother in this religion!”
Now, In saying this, I do not mean to offend anyone. I am simply stating how I have theorized and reflected on this role of Mary. She is undoubtedly a great role model for all Christians and she is undoubtedly given great honor in heaven and has a special place there.
But, as I said before, the problem I have is with this “Mary is your mother” concept. I 've heard the one mention in Scripture, but Jesus was likely talking to that one individual (concerned about the well-being of his mother after His death) and not meaning it in a broad, corporate sense. The absence of any mention of Mary and of “Marian” doctrine in all of the Biblical writings of Apostle Paul and the New Testament books of James, Peter, John, Jude speaks volumes to me.
So, I leave this post with a question for anyone. Why is Mary not mentioned in these books if she is our mother ? Wouldn’t that be an important enough spiritual role that she and her role in the Church would have been discussed at great length by those Biblical writers?
Blessings to all
E
E.E.N.S
Guest
Matthew 25:
However, to address you question (which the saints have done as well, in fact St. Louis de Montfort talks quite a bit about this issue):
Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church “Alma Mater”, Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.
In answer to her prayers to remain hidden, poor and lowly, God was pleased to conceal her from nearly every other human creature in her conception, her birth, her life, her mysteries, her resurrection and assumption. Her own parents did not really know her; and the angels would often ask one another, “Who can she possibly be?”, for God had hidden her from them, or if he did reveal anything to them, it was nothing compared with what he withheld.
God the Father willed that she should perform no miracle during her life, at least no public one, although he had given her the power to do so. God the Son willed that she should speak very little although he had imparted his wisdom to her.
Even though Mary was his faithful spouse, God the Holy Spirit willed that his apostles and evangelists should say very little about her and then only as much as was necessary to make Jesus known.
Mary is the supreme masterpiece of Almighty God and he has reserved the knowledge and possession of her for himself. She is the glorious Mother of God the Son who chose to humble and conceal her during her lifetime in order to foster her humility. He called her “Woman” as if she were a stranger, although in his heart he esteemed and loved her above all men and angels. Mary is the sealed fountain and the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit where only he may enter. She is the sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe, not excluding his dwelling above the cherubim and seraphim.
St. Francis and St. John of the Cross are two of my favorite saints as well.
However, to address you question (which the saints have done as well, in fact St. Louis de Montfort talks quite a bit about this issue):
Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church “Alma Mater”, Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.
In answer to her prayers to remain hidden, poor and lowly, God was pleased to conceal her from nearly every other human creature in her conception, her birth, her life, her mysteries, her resurrection and assumption. Her own parents did not really know her; and the angels would often ask one another, “Who can she possibly be?”, for God had hidden her from them, or if he did reveal anything to them, it was nothing compared with what he withheld.
God the Father willed that she should perform no miracle during her life, at least no public one, although he had given her the power to do so. God the Son willed that she should speak very little although he had imparted his wisdom to her.
Even though Mary was his faithful spouse, God the Holy Spirit willed that his apostles and evangelists should say very little about her and then only as much as was necessary to make Jesus known.
Mary is the supreme masterpiece of Almighty God and he has reserved the knowledge and possession of her for himself. She is the glorious Mother of God the Son who chose to humble and conceal her during her lifetime in order to foster her humility. He called her “Woman” as if she were a stranger, although in his heart he esteemed and loved her above all men and angels. Mary is the sealed fountain and the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit where only he may enter. She is the sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe, not excluding his dwelling above the cherubim and seraphim.
L
LSK
Guest
Matthew 25:
First, you must realize that Catholic Teaching does not depend solely upon Holy Scripture. We depend also upon Sacred Tradition. We actually have, for our seperated brethren, guidance from the Holy Scripture for doing so…I refer you, as a small example to 1 Cor 11:2 where we are told to hold fast to traditions handed on to (us) and 2 Thess 2:15 - where we have been told to hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter (emphasis added by me). The reason for this is that John 21:25 told us that not everything Jesus said was recorded in Scripture.
Now, you also must understand how Catholics have been taught to read the Holy Scripture. We do not read it with the same mind-set as our separated brethren (may I pause to ask you to please excuse my poor spelling? you’d think a grad from Berkeley would be a better speller, but…) but in a* contextual *or literal sense, rather than a literalist sense. As an example, think of if you were to email a friend that it is raining cats and dogs where you are…and someone were to read that email 1500 years later. If they did not do some research into the language, culture, context etc of what you had written and were to take your email in a literalist sense, they might think you had seen kittens and puppies falling from the sky!
Now, with that in mind, we as Catholics, recognize that when St. John wrote ‘Woman’ rather than ‘woman’, he was indicating something very important…in fact, whenever Mary is mentioned in the Gospels and she is not called Mary, she is refered to as Woman in the original writings. That was not by mistake. She is refered to as ‘Woman’ as a direct reference to the ‘Woman’ of Genesis, the Woman whose seed (women do not have seed, this is a reference to a virgin who will give birth) who will be the New Eve…and as the New Eve she is the Mother of us ALL…we also see Mary referenced again in Revelations, when St. John wrote that She is the Woman who’s children the dragon goes after… all of these references talks about Mary as the Mother of the new creation - US! - and for that reason, because Jesus was the New Adam, and Mary is the New Eve, she is the Mother of us all.
And while I think your theory is very sweet, and I mean no disrespect by that, this poorly worded opinion I just gave you is nothing new but has been passed down from the first century Early Church Fathers, expounded upon by some of the greatest theologians of our times until this humble, Obedient Daughter of the Holy Mother Church tries her best to pass it on…I sure hope I didn’t just confuse the issue more!
I think you are an honest Christian man, looking for honest answers. Here is my humble attempt to answer you.
First, you must realize that Catholic Teaching does not depend solely upon Holy Scripture. We depend also upon Sacred Tradition. We actually have, for our seperated brethren, guidance from the Holy Scripture for doing so…I refer you, as a small example to 1 Cor 11:2 where we are told to hold fast to traditions handed on to (us) and 2 Thess 2:15 - where we have been told to hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter (emphasis added by me). The reason for this is that John 21:25 told us that not everything Jesus said was recorded in Scripture.
Now, you also must understand how Catholics have been taught to read the Holy Scripture. We do not read it with the same mind-set as our separated brethren (may I pause to ask you to please excuse my poor spelling? you’d think a grad from Berkeley would be a better speller, but…) but in a* contextual *or literal sense, rather than a literalist sense. As an example, think of if you were to email a friend that it is raining cats and dogs where you are…and someone were to read that email 1500 years later. If they did not do some research into the language, culture, context etc of what you had written and were to take your email in a literalist sense, they might think you had seen kittens and puppies falling from the sky!
Now, with that in mind, we as Catholics, recognize that when St. John wrote ‘Woman’ rather than ‘woman’, he was indicating something very important…in fact, whenever Mary is mentioned in the Gospels and she is not called Mary, she is refered to as Woman in the original writings. That was not by mistake. She is refered to as ‘Woman’ as a direct reference to the ‘Woman’ of Genesis, the Woman whose seed (women do not have seed, this is a reference to a virgin who will give birth) who will be the New Eve…and as the New Eve she is the Mother of us ALL…we also see Mary referenced again in Revelations, when St. John wrote that She is the Woman who’s children the dragon goes after… all of these references talks about Mary as the Mother of the new creation - US! - and for that reason, because Jesus was the New Adam, and Mary is the New Eve, she is the Mother of us all.
And while I think your theory is very sweet, and I mean no disrespect by that, this poorly worded opinion I just gave you is nothing new but has been passed down from the first century Early Church Fathers, expounded upon by some of the greatest theologians of our times until this humble, Obedient Daughter of the Holy Mother Church tries her best to pass it on…I sure hope I didn’t just confuse the issue more!
D
Della
Guest
Matthew 25:
Hi folks,
But I agree with you, I think most Catholics are confused about the role of Mary among their bretheren in the Church.
That’s right, that’s what you think but it is not the reality.
I don’t know how all of this works, but I think the Pope needs to hold another Vatican counsel and prayerfully construct solid doctrine about Mary’s role in the Church. Then, instruct bishops and priests to teach ONLY that doctrine and to preach and teach against Mary worship.
There are many Church documents on Mary’s place in the Church and Christian practice including statements from councils as well as encyclicals by many popes.
Not long ago, I attended a meeting of the charismatic Catholic group in my area. A nun was leading worship with voice and guitar and I was playing recorder and irish flute. We were having a beautiful time together seated in a circle on folding chairs, just worshipping Jesus - who is worthy of all praise and honor and glory.
Then, one of the people sitting in the circle piped up: “We need to worship Mary! Do you have any songs so that we can worship Mary?”
With that, it felt like cold water had been dropped out of the heavens on the time of worship and it dissolved.
Personal experiences can be biased, which is why we don’t depend on them when discerning matters of faith and morals. The woman who wanted songs to worship Mary probably should have requested songs that venerate Mary, which is what Catholics do. It is unfortunate that the word worship has become such a religious football, when for centuries it was a benign term that could mean anything from latria (adoration reserved to God alone) to dulia (veneration of saints or of living persons, such as one’s spouse). Protestants love make the word worship mean latria alone, but that is not how Catholics use the word, which is where the misunderstanding comes in.
Fact is, I have been researching this for years and talking to a great variety of Catholics and I find that yes, Mary IS worshipped by a great many Catholics.
What you take for worship is called hyper-dulia or exalted veneration, not worship in the sense of latria. True Latria requires sacrifice, such as the sacrifice of the Eucharist, not simply veneration or asking for prayers.
Why do we have a college in Indiana called “Marian” College? Why not “Jesus College.” Why are there churches called “Our Lady of Cincinnati” instead of “Our Saviour Jesus of Cincinnati,” etc.
I entered just the words “Church of the Sacred Heart of Jesus” into a google search which came up with 2,910,000 hits. Not all of those were churches named for the Sacred Heart of Jesus, but if only three out of five was, it’s still a significant number. There are many religious institutions from hospitals to colleges named for the Sacred Heart of Jesus and others named for Christ, as well. No one considers naming churches and institutions a contest between Jesus and Mary except Protestants who don’t know what Catholics truly mean by venerating Mary and saints.
E
E.E.N.S
Guest
And since your favorite saints are St. Francis of Assissi and St. John of the Cross, I would like to give a couple of quotes from them:
St. Francis of Assissi
“When we speak the name of Mary, heaven becomes more beautiful and earth rejoices.”
And St. John of the Cross said that he was “twice saved from certain death by the intervention of the Blessed Virgin.”
St. Francis of Assissi
“When we speak the name of Mary, heaven becomes more beautiful and earth rejoices.”
And St. John of the Cross said that he was “twice saved from certain death by the intervention of the Blessed Virgin.”
T
TobyLue
Guest
Hi Matthew 25
I’m glad to see that you have so, so much in common with the Catholic Church. I see where you have great respect for Catholics in this forum. You will see that we have great respect for you too and for many others who even though they may disagree with some of the CC teachings, they are truly Christian in their debates.
Code:
Here is one thing that needs correction. You are, I’m sure, familiar with the Seven Words of Christ.- “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”.
- “Amen, I say to thee, this say thou shalt be with me in paradise”
- “When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and disciple standing, who he loved, he said to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother.”
- “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying: My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?”
- “Afterwards Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst.”
- “When Jesus therefore had taken the vinegar, he said: It is consummated.”
- “And Jesus crying with a loud voice, said: Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. And saying this, he gave up the ghost.”
There is a book entitled “The passion of Jesus and Its Hidden Meaning” by Fr. James Groenings, S.J. that explains in detail the Seven Words. The way I like to see the third word is that it says “… the disciple who he loved…” and “…to the disciple: Behold thy Mother.” Are we not all disciples of Jesus?
I wish I could understand more of St. John of the Cross. (me being of little brain) I know that I read once where he was always thinking about God that if he was talking with others, he would have to hit his hand on a wall time and again so that he could stop thinking about God for a moment and concentrate on what other people were saying.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Matthew 25:
Has it not occurred to you that St. John and the other apostles probably agreed among themselves to remain silent concerning the Blessed Virgin for her protection? With the level of persecution that began after the resurrection, don’t you think they would’ve hid her at all costs? Hence, no mention in their letters, and only short letters from St. John until after her death and the she is mentioned in his vision in Revelation 12.
BTW the way…you have ignored Acts1:14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty)
Pax tecum,
Hi M25!
Has it not occurred to you that St. John and the other apostles probably agreed among themselves to remain silent concerning the Blessed Virgin for her protection? With the level of persecution that began after the resurrection, don’t you think they would’ve hid her at all costs? Hence, no mention in their letters, and only short letters from St. John until after her death and the she is mentioned in his vision in Revelation 12.
BTW the way…you have ignored Acts1:14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty)
Pax tecum,
T
TobyLue
Guest
Cheddarsox,
This is from a pantheist website pantheism.net/paul/beliefs.htm
Yes I agree, we shall discontinue discussion as it’s not what this thread is about.
We are all praying for you to Our Lord Jesus Christ and asking Our Blessed Mother for intercession.
This is from a pantheist website pantheism.net/paul/beliefs.htm
Code:
**That emotional response has two primary elements. One is a sense of awe, wonder, reverence and acceptance of the natural universe, based on its power and beauty and mystery. This sense is the basis for some pantheists' use of words such as "god" "divine," though these words are never used in their traditional Western theistic sense.**
So everything is part of nature, We are part of nature. Are not trees and bunny rabbits part of nature? I have heard some pantheist use these words exactly, that everything is god, even a tree, even a bunny rabbit.
You said “I still have ties to the Church” If you left the church you have broken the ties.
And Yes I was reading what you were saying, but you were saying that you were a devout catholic and after much prayer you left the church and then you said that where you are is where the divine will wants you to be. These statements can only mean that you prayed and discerned that you should embrace pantheism and abandon the faith that you were so devoted to.
I repeat, regardless of how you want to define pantheism, or what variety you practice, the bottom line is “pan=many” and “theos=god”.We are all praying for you to Our Lord Jesus Christ and asking Our Blessed Mother for intercession.
F
FCEGM
Guest
Matthew 25:
stfrancisonline.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SFB&Product_Code=AIB-AG001&Category_Code=M
Also, this two-part article by Mark Shea, a former Evangelical, will offer you some food for thought:
catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=30145
catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?art_id=30146
Lastly, these brief but profound words from St. John of the Cross:
DEL VERBO DIVINO
The Virgin, weighed
With the Word of God,
Comes down the road:
If only you’ll shelter her.
Matthew, a book you might find helpful on this score is All Generations Shall Me Blessed: Biblical Mariology, by Fr. Stefano Manelli, F.F.I…
stfrancisonline.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SFB&Product_Code=AIB-AG001&Category_Code=M
Also, this two-part article by Mark Shea, a former Evangelical, will offer you some food for thought:
catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=2&art_id=30145
catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?art_id=30146
Lastly, these brief but profound words from St. John of the Cross:
DEL VERBO DIVINO
The Virgin, weighed
With the Word of God,
Comes down the road:
If only you’ll shelter her.
W
Writer
Guest
Matthew 25:
home.earthlink.net/~karlerickson/writer/id16.html
Glad to hear of your fascinaton for Saint Francis. Have you read the biography of him by G.K. Chesterton? It’s great. If you want to read my thoughts on Mary, feel free to drop by the site below. It tries to explore, in fairly simple terms, Mary’s place in the Church.
home.earthlink.net/~karlerickson/writer/id16.html
M
Matthew_25
Guest
Hi folks,
Well, you’ve all blessed this old white-bearded, physically disabled non-denominational Christian contemplative. Even you, blessed friend, Michael, whose answers are a bit on the blunt side (smile). That’s okay, because sometimes people say my comments can be a little blunt, too.
I want you to know that I love you all, even if some may not intuitively want to accept love from a non-Catholic (smile). But I hope you love me, too, as a brother in Christ. God really is about love, isn’t He? Sometimes we flawed human beings (me included) lose sight of that fact.
MICHAEL - Thank you for pointing out to me that reference to Mary in the Book of Acts. I don’t know how I missed that before - I’ve read the Bible through scores of times. I think that is a really neat meditation to think about Mary being in that situation.
Also, thanks to the one who pointed out that my heroes of the faith - St. Francis and St. John of the Cross - both spoke of Mary. I kinda knew that was going to be coming and you made an excellent point. All I can say about that is that no one has perfected Christian doctrine, certainly not me.
Now, I am torn. I feel I have made friends here. I love your spirits. You are wonderful Christian folks and very intelligent and thoughtful folks.
But, on the role of Mary, it is like the old Eric Clapton song: “There ain’t no good guys, there ain’t no bad guys, there’s only you and me and we just disagree.”
What I am torn about is that I don’t want to lose my new Catholic friends by not posting anymore about Mary.
I am not a smart man. Can anyone tell me my options to this?
Does discussion on this thread have to be exclusively about Mary?
Are you all somewhere else in the Catholic Answers group so that we can continue on with this great “ecumenical” dialogue (smile).
“We are one in the spirit, we are one in the Lord…and they will know we are Christians by our love, by our love. They will know we are Christians by our love.”
Well, you’ve all blessed this old white-bearded, physically disabled non-denominational Christian contemplative. Even you, blessed friend, Michael, whose answers are a bit on the blunt side (smile). That’s okay, because sometimes people say my comments can be a little blunt, too.
I want you to know that I love you all, even if some may not intuitively want to accept love from a non-Catholic (smile). But I hope you love me, too, as a brother in Christ. God really is about love, isn’t He? Sometimes we flawed human beings (me included) lose sight of that fact.
MICHAEL - Thank you for pointing out to me that reference to Mary in the Book of Acts. I don’t know how I missed that before - I’ve read the Bible through scores of times. I think that is a really neat meditation to think about Mary being in that situation.
Also, thanks to the one who pointed out that my heroes of the faith - St. Francis and St. John of the Cross - both spoke of Mary. I kinda knew that was going to be coming and you made an excellent point. All I can say about that is that no one has perfected Christian doctrine, certainly not me.
Now, I am torn. I feel I have made friends here. I love your spirits. You are wonderful Christian folks and very intelligent and thoughtful folks.
But, on the role of Mary, it is like the old Eric Clapton song: “There ain’t no good guys, there ain’t no bad guys, there’s only you and me and we just disagree.”
What I am torn about is that I don’t want to lose my new Catholic friends by not posting anymore about Mary.
I am not a smart man. Can anyone tell me my options to this?
Does discussion on this thread have to be exclusively about Mary?
Are you all somewhere else in the Catholic Answers group so that we can continue on with this great “ecumenical” dialogue (smile).
Code:
Love to all!
D
deb1
Guest
Matthew 25:
Hi folks,
Now, I am torn. I feel I have made friends here. I love your spirits. You are wonderful Christian folks and very intelligent and thoughtful folks.
But, on the role of Mary, it is like the old Eric Clapton song: “There ain’t no good guys, there ain’t no bad guys, there’s only you and me and we just disagree.”
What I am torn about is that I don’t want to lose my new Catholic friends by not posting anymore about Mary.
I am not a smart man. Can anyone tell me my options to this?
Does discussion on this thread have to be exclusively about Mary?
Are you all somewhere else in the Catholic Answers group so that we can continue on with this great “ecumenical” dialogue (smile).
Love to all!
"QUOTE]
don’t worry. Most people here are thick skinned and don’t get offended by a little debate. This particular thread is on Mary but there are many others.
It is very nice to see you here, Mathew.
C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Not sure what this is all about but it certainly isn’t Catholic teaching.
In Christ,
Nancy
D
deb1
Guest
Matthew 25:
This thread is for discussion on Mary but there are a host of others threads also.
Welcome Mathew! We are glad to have you. 
Don’t worry. We tend to be thick skinned people around here. So, I don’t think anyone will be offended by anything you say.
This thread is for discussion on Mary but there are a host of others threads also.
Welcome Mathew! We are glad to have you.
C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Are these ex-Catholics you speak of now SDA’s?
In Christ,
Nancy
S
Schabel
Guest
Matthew 25:
First, let me say that I appreciate honest discussions such as this one.
Now, above you said that there was no mention of Mary outside of the Gospels. Not entirely correct. She was present at Pentecost, where the Holy Spirit again approached her in a tangible way.
The King’s mother was the g@biyrah, the “Queen Mother”.
See catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp
Hi, Matthew.
First, let me say that I appreciate honest discussions such as this one.
Now, above you said that there was no mention of Mary outside of the Gospels. Not entirely correct. She was present at Pentecost, where the Holy Spirit again approached her in a tangible way.
OK, further explore the makeup of the Davidic court, the kingdom which was a foreshadowing of the Kingdom of God.
The King’s mother was the g@biyrah, the “Queen Mother”.
See catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp
Do you really think that Jesus would have spent his last words, spoken in the excruciating (that word was invented for this torture, since there was no word able to do justice to it) agony, for something that was not of paramount importance? All of His words and actions at this time must have been didactic, for our benefit. Origen thought, and taught, so.
How about the book of Revelation?
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