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Church_Militant
Guest
I wasn’t trying to run him off.
Now…Where were we?
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Now…Where were we?
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Cairisti
Guest
Welcome frozenrut! As someone who also was S.Baptist and new to Catholicism, I can tell ya, that many, but not all Baptists (and Protestants) seem to think that Catholics are not Christian. My own family has that mindset and have been glad when a cousin’s Catholic wife became Presbyterian and thus “saved”. Argh! (And I won’t mention my confrontations with them about my being in RCIA! Not pretty.)
Why would they think, that? What is the argument based on?
Only thing I can think of is prejudice and ignorance. Not to mention what the pastor from the pulpit decided to rant on.
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New_Heart
Guest
A Christian is one who believes solely on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (without shedding of blood there is not remission, once for all) and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (promise of eternal life; we are buried with Him in baptism and are raised again to new life). A Roman Catholic is one that believes the Roman Catholic Church saves them inspite of Christ’s teaching, plus every dogma that comes up and added time and again.
Accoring to the Bible it is Christ plus nothing. The Roman Catholic Church teaches it is Jesus plus Mary plus sacrements plus … and on it goes. No end no; salvation outside of catholicism.
According to the Bible, NOT.
Accoring to the Bible it is Christ plus nothing. The Roman Catholic Church teaches it is Jesus plus Mary plus sacrements plus … and on it goes. No end no; salvation outside of catholicism.
According to the Bible, NOT.
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Church_Militant
Guest
New Heart:
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ahimsaman72
Guest
Finally, another Southern Baptist who can let people know that SB’s believe Catholics are Christians also and not hate-mongers of the Catholic Church!!!
Peace be with you and thanks!!!
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ahimsaman72
Guest
My experience as a Southern Baptist from being a life-long Southern Baptist is not similar to yours - it is similar to frozenrut. Salvation was free and clear for all who trust, not just for Baptists, Presbyterians. It included Catholics. I come up against this time and time again.
Hard-core SB’s may believe that Catholics are not Christian. The SBC has put out some evangelism statements that seemed to indicate that Catholics need saving. But, the majority of SB people are not hard-core and do not believe Catholics need “saving”. Most of the people I have been involved with all my life - family, church friends etc who are SB believe Catholics are Christians.
Unfortunately, over-zealous pastors and SBC admininstrators and hard-core SB members go overboard and want to “save” everybody who isn’t SB. To look at everyone who is SB and say they are anti-Catholic is like saying everyone who is Catholic “worships” Mary. It isn’t true.
Peace…
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ahimsaman72
Guest
Church Militant:
Yes, Catholicism is Christian. She upholds Jesus Christ as Son of God and Savior of the world. She recognizes both Old and New Testaments as inspired of God and useful for teaching and rebuking. She practices the basic tenents of the Christian faith and is therefore Christian.Please explain your answer and let this thread be nothing more than statements of opinion.
Leave all the flamethrowers in the closet…
:bible1:
:twocents:
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InigoMontoya
Guest
Could the argument be a response to the conception that most Roman Catholics believe that only they can know Christ, have salvation, or be Christian? Arrogance, prejudice, and ignorance go “both” ways. It truly saddens my heart and causes me to weep how much those who confess Jesus as Lord and savior of their lives; knowingly spout such harsh words and lies to each other.
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flameburns623
Guest
You would have much better luck finding people who would tell you to your face that Catholicism is not a denomination of the Christian faith if you went here:
p197.ezboard.com/fformercatholicsforchristfrm1
Take some TUMS with you. You’ll need it. They’re linked to this forum but hopefully everyone will behave with Christian courtesy and respect–the topic will generate enough heat on it’s own.
p197.ezboard.com/fformercatholicsforchristfrm1
Take some TUMS with you. You’ll need it. They’re linked to this forum but hopefully everyone will behave with Christian courtesy and respect–the topic will generate enough heat on it’s own.
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Cairisti
Guest
Take TUMS or your blood pressure meds. That place is toxic!
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anjel13
Guest
The people on that board are filled with such hatred, I can’t believe that they think their words, attitudes, and judgements are Christian. Satan is working very hard and is very deceptive. It’s really sad because those people actually believe what they are doing is good. I wanted to post a reply, but I know nothing I say there will be taken seriously as the hatred and evil in their hearts is apparently too strong for me to handle.
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frozenrut
Guest
When I was growing up the Catholics were the butt of some good natured jokes and viewed as perhaps a little misguided but were always refered to as “Our Catholic Borthers and Sisters”.
When I told my Mom that I was going to Mass and RCIA, her response was “Well at least your are going to church.” She didn’t disown me and claim I had left Christ, she was just a little disappointed that I wasn’t going to the church I had been raised in.
As much as The Catholic Church called to me, so did the Baptist Church sort of push me away. It’s hard to explain but suffice it to say that the SBC Churches do not seem to be the same ones I was raised in.
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Katholikos
Guest
Ahimsaman, what you have said is that a Southern Baptist who follows his church’s teachings does believe that Catholics are not Christian. Baptist heretics, who pick and choose from among their denomination’s teachings, don’t believe it. So it really depends upon whether one is a “true Baptist” or not.
As you know, I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and my Sunday School class, Bible study, and Sunday sermons were all about how the Pope was the antichrist and the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon, week after week, month upon month, year following year. As you also know, I went to a Southern Baptist funeral recently where I heard more of the same. They can’t even bury the dead without slamming Catholics. Consequently, I do not have a benign view of the Baptists.
Southern Baptists are not the only ones who hold anti-Catholic views. My experience with the GARBC, various Independent
Baptists, Landmark Baptists, and others have all proven to be more of the same.
I’m glad you, your church, and those you know are not like this – but you surely recognize that you are the exceptions, since you wrote that it’s not official denominational doctrine. When the SB denomination writes in its charter that others who follow Christ according to the dictates of their conscience are their separated brethren and deserve to be called Christian, I’ll believe it. That’s about the same time h-e-double toothpicks will freeze over.
Jay DamienEx-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
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Church_Militant
Guest
Thanks ahimsaman72
A very good post and excellent clarification.
A very good post and excellent clarification.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Church Militant:
God Bless
Hi C.M. I hope Christ blessed you with all His Presence this Christmas. All I can say is Catholics are Christians when they follow Christ and obey His commandments.
God Bless
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Church_Militant
Guest
Thanks Jay,Ahimsaman, what you have said is that a Southern Baptist who follows his church’s teachings does believe that Catholics are not Christian. Baptist heretics, who pick and choose from among their denomination’s teachings, don’t believe it. So it really depends upon whether one is a “true Baptist” or not.
As you know, I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and my Sunday School class, Bible study, and Sunday sermons were all about how the Pope was the antichrist and the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon, week after week, month upon month, year following year. As you also know, I went to a Southern Baptist funeral recently where I heard more of the same. They can’t even bury the dead without slamming Catholics. Consequently, I do not have a benign view of the Baptists.
Southern Baptists are not the only ones who hold anti-Catholic views. My experience with the GARBC, various Independent
Baptists, Landmark Baptists, and others have all proven to be more of the same.
I’m glad you, your church, and those you know are not like this – but you surely recognize that you are the exceptions, since you wrote that it’s not official denominational doctrine. When the SB denomination writes in its charter that others who follow Christ according to the dictates of their conscience are their separated brethren and deserve to be called Christian, I’ll believe it. That’s about the same time h-e-double toothpicks will freeze over.
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
Y’know…I hadn’t really thought to put that just that way, but that is very well expressed. My own experience with SBs and Baptists in general is about the same as Ahimsaman’s having been a memeber for a while. As with most all religions, there is a difference between stated belief and actual practice. “human all too human.”
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ahimsaman72
Guest
Church Militant:
You both know how I feel. Anyone, whether SBC or Presbyterian, Lutheran or whoever holds these anti-Catholic views should not be anti-Catholic in their speech or written words. We should seek a dialogue that is meaningful and expressive without the rhetoric. The same goes for Catholics, too, though.
I see a lot of “truth” speech on the forums. “I’m only speaking the truth and if that hurts, then it hurts”. This is not true speech or peaceful speech or meaningful speech. If the words are harmful, abrasive and abusive, it should not be tolerated.
I respect you both and if we cannot agree on a certain view, we should agree to disagree and move on. If only all of us would do so, there would be much less pain and suffering. Whatever disunity exists between the Catholic Christian faith and the Baptist Christian faith should be acknowledged as such. But, that doesn’t mean one has to war with the other. Not in my opinion or belief.
Bless you all. Catholics are Christian.
Peace…
Hello C.M. and Jay, gentlemen,Thanks Jay,
Y’know…I hadn’t really thought to put that just that way, but that is very well expressed. My own experience with SBs and Baptists in general is about the same as Ahimsaman’s having been a memeber for a while. As with most all religions, there is a difference between stated belief and actual practice. “human all too human.”
You both know how I feel. Anyone, whether SBC or Presbyterian, Lutheran or whoever holds these anti-Catholic views should not be anti-Catholic in their speech or written words. We should seek a dialogue that is meaningful and expressive without the rhetoric. The same goes for Catholics, too, though.
I see a lot of “truth” speech on the forums. “I’m only speaking the truth and if that hurts, then it hurts”. This is not true speech or peaceful speech or meaningful speech. If the words are harmful, abrasive and abusive, it should not be tolerated.
I respect you both and if we cannot agree on a certain view, we should agree to disagree and move on. If only all of us would do so, there would be much less pain and suffering. Whatever disunity exists between the Catholic Christian faith and the Baptist Christian faith should be acknowledged as such. But, that doesn’t mean one has to war with the other. Not in my opinion or belief.
Bless you all. Catholics are Christian.
Peace…
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ahimsaman72
Guest
What I have said, actually, is that the SBC has some evangelistic literature that targets Catholics as non-Christians. The Baptist Faith and Message, which you know is the official statement from the SBC contains no language or hint of anti-Catholic sentiment. However, the Mission arm of the SBC has made statements regarding the salvation of “Roman Catholics”. So, it’s really talking out of both sides of its mouth - so to speakAhimsaman, what you have said is that a Southern Baptist who follows his church’s teachings does believe that Catholics are not Christian. Baptist heretics, who pick and choose from among their denomination’s teachings, don’t believe it. So it really depends upon whether one is a “true Baptist” or not.
As you know, I was raised in a Southern Baptist church and my Sunday School class, Bible study, and Sunday sermons were all about how the Pope was the antichrist and the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon, week after week, month upon month, year following year. As you also know, I went to a Southern Baptist funeral recently where I heard more of the same. They can’t even bury the dead without slamming Catholics. Consequently, I do not have a benign view of the Baptists.
Southern Baptists are not the only ones who hold anti-Catholic views. My experience with the GARBC, various Independent
Baptists, Landmark Baptists, and others have all proven to be more of the same.
I’m glad you, your church, and those you know are not like this – but you surely recognize that you are the exceptions, since you wrote that it’s not official denominational doctrine. When the SB denomination writes in its charter that others who follow Christ according to the dictates of their conscience are their separated brethren and deserve to be called Christian, I’ll believe it. That’s about the same time h-e-double toothpicks will freeze over.
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
.So, there is no “true Baptist doctrine or teaching” that one adheres to that pertains to Roman Catholics. So, I have to reject the idea that “true Baptists” are anti-Catholic. I don’t think that’s true at all. The *sentiment *in many seminaries and administrations (which I spoke of) is that Roman Catholicism is non-Christian. So, you get some pastors out of the gate who bring that to their churches. But, you also get some who look past those issues and stick with shepherding their flocks.
It is truly unfortunate and grieves me to hear of the funeral situation and other situations you have endured. I could apologize for my wrongful brethren till I’m blue in the face - would it matter? I recognize this should not be so.
If it truly is just the SB heretics that are friendly to Catholics, then so be it - I’m a heretic. I am one whichever group you equate me with anyway, whether Catholic or Baptist, so…
I understand your frustration of the SBC’s tendencies to be anti-Catholic in evangelism. They approached the Mormons the same way. And the Jewish population also. I don’t agree with those initiatives at all. But, then I don’t have to
. We don’t have to obey the SBC. They are really just an umbrella for local congregations anyway. Although they are the largest protestant denom in America they are not the tight-knit, unified force that the Catholic Church is. So, one shouldn’t worry about them too much .And, no, I wouldn’t expect a positive statement of such friendliness towards Catholics in the future, but I wouldn’t expect a negative one either. But, who knows?
Peace…
G
GoodKnight1443
Guest
I love this topic. So many pople just don’t have a clue about who the first Christians were! I actually had this dopey friend in college who people often mistook for being Catholic 1) She was with me and my other friends who were Catholic 2) She had an Italian last name. She would get so offended and say " I am NOT Catholic! I am Protestant and Christian!" Of course she had no clue as to what denomination she was nor did she even go to church but twice a year let alone the same church. Duh.
There is a couple in my parish where the wife is an extraordinary minister and the husband can’t make up his mind if he is Catholic or not. He gets ticked at something, then he leaves the church
for a while then comes back. Not the parish mind you, the entire Catholic Church including the “I am no longer Catholic, I am a Christian!” announcement. Double Duh.
There is a couple in my parish where the wife is an extraordinary minister and the husband can’t make up his mind if he is Catholic or not. He gets ticked at something, then he leaves the church
for a while then comes back. Not the parish mind you, the entire Catholic Church including the “I am no longer Catholic, I am a Christian!” announcement. Double Duh.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Hi GoodKnight!
I can sure resonate with this post. I WAS like that at one point myself, befoer I looked long and hard at what the catholic Church really does teach and discovered that it really is the NT Christian church despite all the folks who disagree. I’m just glad to be “home”. Glory Be To God!
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