*I have satisfied my self that not only is Christianity the true religion, but also that the Catholic Church is the true Church. From a historical viewpoint, our God first vanquished all the lesser Gods in Egypt and Canaan, with lethal force. Then, at the coming of Jesus, our God vanquished the remaining lesser gods of Europe, Africa and Asia with love. That’s a rich heritage.*Yet another verification of the violence of the christianist idea of god. as distinct from God, and the pride had in that violence.
This is experience speaking. I also believe that since the method and function of science blinds it to the spirit world, which is the baliwick of the Church and religion, that science has nothing to say about the spirit world nor religion; and so should say nothing about religion, imho. True enough. Remembering that each of our experience is extremely limited, one can’t really argue that. My experience is radically different. And as for science, though it has a limited province, and admits it, it has yet much to say that is accurate about how and why we perceive and believe what we do. It would be sad to pass up noteworthy work on the nature of belief. At least science has a built in self evaluation that allows for advancement, something extraordinarily lacking in religious thought. If that were not so, the differences between religions, something that in fact proves their materialism, would have been resolved long ago, similarly to the verifications agreed upon by scientists of any stripe due to repeatability.
Hi, Detales -
Let me answer your charge of early (Bronze age) religious violence with a little true story. (The early church was not violent) When I drove cab, I once picked up a man and his three daughters at the airport, and took them to their apartment. It was a long drive and we began to talk. Topic came around to crime and during the discussion on crime, he said he could never kill anybody.
I looked again in the rear view mirror, at his 7yo, 5yo and 3yo daughters, all dressed alike in plaid skirts, vests and tams, so sweet and precious and innocent and the mirror showed me a picture perfect scene, they beside their father in the back seat.
I said, “I can think of three good reasons, you might kill somebody.”
He sputtered, disbelievingly and then said, “What are they?”
I answered, “They’re sitting in the back seat with you.”
He changed the subject.
I’m saying, until you’ve been a parent, and God is the good father, you have no clue to the depth of love, protectiveness and lengths you’d go to, to protect your children.
In that light, the early religious violence was necessary defense from false gods who misled their followers (who used violence and slaughter) into human infant sacrifice, cannibalism, and other such atrocities. Certainly, our Creator is justified in using lethal force to protect and save His children. It’s not a matter of proud of the violence, but merely truthfully reporting it, instead of white washing history and God, to present a ‘nice’ god.
As far as your second paragraph, my experience with God in my life is not limited, and I won’t allow you to ‘put down’ experience. All texts books record the experience of others. Whether others’ experience with science experiments; whether others’ experience of math formulas and principles; whether others experience of history, politics, discoveries, philosophical thoughts etc. Without experience of others, there’s nothing to record in books. So, don’t put down experience, OK? That’s where it’s at.
I wouldn’t say that science has a limited province, anymore. Science abounds in the medical establishment, in the commerce establishment, in the industrial establishment, in the military establishment, in government and in the space race. It’s only in philosophy the father of science) and religion (the cradle of science and father of philosophy) where science need trod carefully in the first and not trod in the second.
This thread is about claims of faith. And, you push science into it? Science doesn’t fit, here. It’s got all those other establishments to go to, don’t drag it in here. Thank you.
