What’s a good number: 50-1?
.
Going back to Job, who is to say why God said and did those things? Some reasons could be simply for reasons of hygine that otherwise took centuries later to explain why.
God also gave reasons why. See Exodus 23:31.
:dts:
You give a lot of deference to the god of the Koran. I think its very obvious as long as you apply reason and not a PC factor.
I would say based upon the whole of the Quran the orphan, needy, wayfarer…must be Muslim to recive such piety and if they are not the verse does not apply. See verses 190-195 of the same chapter.
If it is not God why listen to it anymore than you might Joseph Smith?
The Arabs in Arabia at the time of Mohommed could fairly be described as egalitarian but I would not say it is a attribute of Islam. Certainly some of the Arab attitude was adopted by many Muslims but Mohammed destroyed Arab culture in many respects and what is adopte dby non-Arab Muslims is a shadow of the past. I would not describe the Persians, Pakistanis or Egyptians as such by nature. I would need a furthr explaination about your remedial nature of hell as described in the Quran. I don’t think it exists. I am at a loss to see the mystical nature of Islam, only a Jim Jones type persona gone awry and unabated.
How did the Church go from being persecuted in the first few centuries to being involved in political power in the next few? If any political ambition is applied to members of the Church, be it Pope or layman, is such ambition supported by Scripture? Does scripture support persecution of anyone to include the Jews though it occured? Do you know of any Chrurch doctrine that gave permission to persecute or force convert non-Christians?
Before answering such a loaded Palestianan question…stealing is wrong. He would be against it.
Justice is justice the world around. There is no such “Justice Islam style.” The believers are COMMANDED to stand up for justice. Because they believe in Allah, and Allah is Just. And Allah will hold them to account. Why should Allah command people to justice who do not believe in Him?
Loaded Palestinian question? I really wasn’t thinking about that at all. It’s just a hypothetical question. What would Jesus do if he were a judge?
The believers are commanded to fight in allahs cause against the unbelievers. I don’t understand your meaning of the last sentence (bolded). Can you explain that please?
In Islam, God is called the Forgiving, the Oft-Forgiving, who loves to Forgive.
The ayah was directed at Muslims (oh you who believe), and you seemed to have a problem with that. I didn’t understand why. The believers are commanded to fight in Allah’s cause against those who transgress, because they transgress. This is to establish justice. Unless you don’t think anybody should have fought the Nazis to stop the persecution of Jews…
I know it is directed at Muslims, but what is the transgression allah commads retribution and justice from? What is allahs cause?
What exactly are your views on slavery in the Bible?
genocide is justified to prevent the pagans from corrupting the Jews?
aaiil.org/text/books/mali/religionislam/religionofislam.pdf
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (190) And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (191) But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (192) And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. (193) The forbidden month for the forbidden month, and forbidden things in retaliation. And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who ward off (evil). (194) Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent.
I didn’t say I did.
I have always heard that Mecca had abandoned the traditional principals of egalitarianism when Muhammad arose. That may be a fabrication of Islamic History. But I have never heard Mecca described as a egalitarian paradise.
aaiil.org/text/books/mali/religionislam/religionofislam.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi
Well. When you talk about Islam and criticize it, do you stick to the strict teachings of Islam? It seems that you often cite the examples of Muslims to accuse Islam. If that is the case then it is fair to look at the actions Christians as well.
What is the transgression? Persecution of innocent people. Attacking or invading another land. Attempting to wipe out a particular population or force them to convert. These are examples of transgressions.
Very cool. I will respond to the rest after I read the links you gave, but I shoul a ctually work my job today so it may be later. I have enjoyed the debate as well.
Islam claims a false agression from non-Muslims particularly at the time of Mohammed. He is talking only to the believers (Muslims) and no one invaded during Mohammeds time so he is speaking about the pagans, Jews and Christians. Innocent is realative and it is Islam that wipes out and forced converts. It is unjust to say someone who resists Islam is transgressing Islam, but that is what the Koran says.
Any context would be fine but one that tries to represent the many references in the Quran. Cause of Allah or Allahs Cause. A few examples.
Sorry, but ‘quite a few’ is a pathetic answer to all the violence in the koran.
Wow, you have finally admitted that is what muslims do. Now you have to admit that it is the muslims who start the violence and then wail that they are the victims when the ones they are trying to wipe out strike back - like the Israelis. Or how about the Zorastrians that they successfully wiped out? They have wiped out so many others that I cannot remember all those of different pagan religions. Not just convert - I mean they murdered them.
that most of the audience here are intelligent enough to recognize a baseless claim when they see one. Among the most widely believed myths in the west today about Islam is myth of forcible conversion to Islam. It is widely believed due to the fact that Islam spread very rapidly. I will not go now into how or why Islam spread very rapidly, but I will address your unfounded claim of the forced conversion myth.