Catholics and adultery and lying

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Rozellelily

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I am a non practicing Catholic so bear me while I try to form an understanding.

I have looked at a few topic thread on CAF recently and an finding a couple of things concerning about the Catholic religion.

Primarily,on a thread by a Muslim guy it was being discussed that Muslims are “permitted” to lie under some circumstances such as lying about their faith/religion under duress but Catholics are never allowed to lie and that’s it’s always a sin (if “only” venial).
One poster responded to me that it would even be a sin to lie to ISIS or other similar barbaric organisation if they were to ask you where a family member/friend was for example so they could kill them.
He said the only Catholic acceptable response would be silence.

Then,I see a different thread about infidelity in marriage and I am amazed to see many Catholics advising the poster that she should not tell her husband that she has cheated on him.😮

Isn’t being deceptive in this way lying by omission?

I don’t understand the reasoning that it would be ok to deceive a persons husband or wife but to lie to someone like Isis would be a sin (even if venial)??

Is an Isis member really more deserving of trust and honesty than a persons husband/wife😳

Do all Catholics on here agree with this reasoning?
 
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Rozellelily said:
Then,I see a different thread about infidelity in marriage and I am amazed to see many Catholics advising the poster that she should not tell her husband that she has cheated on him.😮

Isn’t being deceptive in this way lying by omission?

I don’t understand the reasoning that it would be ok to deceive a persons husband or wife but to lie to someone like Isis would be a sin (even if venial)??
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I personally don’t agree that you should hide infidelity, or anything else that majorly concerns your relationship (like a big financial expenditure), from your spouse. I do see it as dishonest, a barrier to communication, and a big burden to always have something hanging over your head that spouse might “find out”. For various reasons, I really wanted a spouse I could tell everything to, and never wanted to have secrets in my marriage.
I got lucky and found a guy who doesn’t mind that and seems to see honesty as a positive thing. And yes, from time to time I have told him some pretty hair raising stuff.

However, having been married for many years, I have learned over time that my marriage doesn’t seem to be the norm. I can’t really tell other people how to run their marriages. They should be getting that sort of advice from their priest and their marriage counselor. What works for me might be a disaster for the couple next door.
 
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Not everyone agrees.
I don’t know what’s the best thing to do concerning infidelity.
 
Remaining silent to avoid needlessly hurting someone is not the same as lying.
 
Hi 😀 please permit me to clarify some points: (I also read those threads and did not appreciate them)
Rozellelily said:
to lie under some circumstances
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Well, there is such a thing as a “pious lie”. So what exactly is a “pious lie”? Well, you have right to your private sphere, it is of justice to desire protection of your privacy. So, if under extreme duress as for example: being subjected to repeated questions and pressure that violate your privacy, in the case you run out of ideas and escapes - then you may say a “pious lie” in legitimate self defense. But only, when all other alternatives are exhausted.
Rozellelily said:
it would even be a sin to lie to ISIS
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no it would not! Legitimate self-defense (fighting for your life actually). This is not about lying! It is about martyrdom, and by martyrdom we understand laying down your life confessing to Jesus as our Lord and Savior (or merely because you are christian) and expecting the corresponding “palm” in the kingdom of heaven.
Rozellelily said:
He said the only Catholic acceptable response would be silence.
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Generally you are free to respond with all creativity as you wish, as long you don’t raise a “false witness”. In most situations you are not forced to be sincere divulging your privacy to whom it doesn’t concern.
Rozellelily said:
she should not tell her husband that she has cheated
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This is a question of intricate response! From the moment you receive absolution in confession you are not forced to divulge your sin (the backbiter “a posteriori” would incur in increased guilt). The condition to be absolved is sincere repenting: You have to never again betray. So, little gain would there be and all to lose if you were to unwisely tell the truth afterwards. BUT IT DOES NOT STOP HERE!!! To be wise, you have to understand that love evolves and matures (love is a study subject in itself)…! So, when the right time comes, you should tell you husband what you did, when you feel he is prepared to love you even more inspite of it, which supposes and implies your perfect act of contrition with abundant “paint of heart” for your betrayal and strengthened committed thereof to the man you betrayed and on to whom you lay this additional burden and pain. (The omission being lifted when the right conditions are met.)
 
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1Cor13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1Cor13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1Cor13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
 
I believe it is lying because it is deceitful.

How would a marriage continue healthily into the future if it isn’t built on a foundation of trust and honesty?

Is the person really deceiving their spouse because they are concerned about hurting the spouse or is rather more due to their own immature feelings?
Ie:their fears that the husband will get mad,leave them and the marriage,how they will cope emotionally with the husbands sadness and feelings of betrayal,their cowardess at telling him/her,their worry how they will react etc…

If their reason for deception truly is due to not wanting to hurt their spouse,they are making assumptions about what the spouse wants.
The spouse could feel in reality even more hurt that not only was there cheating but they also were deceived/denied the truth and denied the option to weigh up the marriage future.

Even if there is some husband/wife who would rather not know,the fact that that they would rather self-deceive or deny reality seems more like a psychological flaw and does not by default make the deception moral.
 
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This topic seems to come up regularly on CAF. I hesitate to discuss it since people get so heated. They say that the innocent spouse has a right to know and must be told. Most professional family counselors would not agree. My best advice is to discuss this with one’s pastor or a good counselor.
 
There’s the story [remember that all stories are true…some of them actually happened…] of the WWII priest being pursued on foot by SS troops…he ducked into a doorway, removed his collar, and emerged walking toward them…they asked if he had seen a priest, and he replied that a priest was in that doorway a minute ago…they continued their pursuit. He didn’t lie, but he did deceive…did he sin? I don’t think so…

Marriage is based on trust…imagine cheating, [let’s not mince words…it’s adultery…so serious that it meant excommunication in the early Church] and then giving an incurable STD to your faithful, loving spouse because you maintained your silence…
 
boldlygo said:
imagine (…) giving an incurable STD to your faithful, loving spouse because you maintained your silence…
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Specific conditions bring with them specific moral obligations. This does not apply in all cases, it is a specific case.
 
Hi Rozellelily,
Many Catholics would agree that it’s all right to lie to Isis (or Nazis, in previous epochs) because they have no right to the information they are asking for. They have no right to the location of the Jews hiding in your attic, because they mean them ill.
As far as lying to one’s spouse about infidelity, it’s best not to practice infidelity in the first place.
That said, many believe that it’s best not to inform the spouse because it will only cause them pain, and the pain should be borne by the one who was unfaithful. Some want to tell their spouse to get the load off their own shoulders, but that’s not kind. Best to confess the sin to a priest and determine not to repeat it. (and get checked for an STD).
 
Rozellelily said:
He said the only Catholic acceptable response would be silence.
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You don’t seem to have an issue when a Catholic is silent when questioned by ISIS under duress but it disturbs you if a spouse is silent in another scenario such as infidelity. Silence is silence what’s the difference?
 
adgloriam said:
Specific conditions bring with them specific moral obligations. This does not apply in all cases, it is a specific case.
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STD’s don’t always appear quickly…try explaining it after the fact. Marriage is based on trust…if there is no trust, does the marriage exist?
 
And some of us would tell our spouses because we have the kind of relationship with our spouse where we discuss things that might present issues in our marriage. Don’t leave out that option when you’re making up the list of why people might tell their spouse.
 
Thanks for your response Viki63.

I still think a person should tell the other spouse if they have been unfaithful because how could it be a healthy marriage if it is not built on a foundation of trust?
 
The act of lying is intrinsically evil, and may therefore never be done regardless of time, place, or circumstance. This has been repeatedly re-affirmed by the magisterium.

On the other hand, the use of deceptions such as equivocation, and still more simple omission, are not malum in se, and therefore can be justified for a serious cause.

Obviously, it would be a sin to directly deny having committed adultery if one had in fact done so.
 
The difference is because you know that Isis is very likely going to harm (kill,decapitate) that person but in the second case “you” yourself have done the hurtful act (infidelity) and are then doing a second wrong by not being honest.

1759 “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.

The person might have a good intention (not to cause their husband/wife hurt) but they are doing a “bad action” (deceit) to bring this about.
 
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