Catholics and adultery and lying

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Augustine3 said:
Yep a Christian hypocrite 😂
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Lovely 😁 classic! Well, I didn’t judge, and “pointing the finger” is something else, it was however an exercise of objectification open to debate (not devoid of reason or exactness) an that’s the beauty of it. Text mechanics in the purest sense.
 
@Bigmistake,

Sorry you find yourself in this situation.
Nobody here wants anything bad to come to you.
In your current situation and mindset,it may be easy to confuse my/others peoples calls for honesty and openness with wishing ill will on you (or anyone else in your situation) but please don’t think this way as i,as I’m sure everyone else on this thread agrees, don’t wish you any ill will.

Please consider seeing a priest and a Marriage Psychologist/counsellor.

I think you should take a mature approach by admitting your responsibility in this situation and getting courage and avoiding self pity or despairing thoughts.

Once we are adults,(coming from the presumption we have no serious illnesses such as Dementia or severe mental illness affecting our reasoning and decision making), we have free will.

So,you would be taking a mature step in the right direction by seeing and admitting that while you may be have been encouraged to get excessively drunk,you,as an adult with free will, still agreed to this yourself.
Likewise,you need to admit that you are equally responsible for what happened in the hotel room even though she followed you or was strongly the “suggestor”.

Taking responsibility will be your first step.
Getting “out of yourself” and focusing on your wife and children’s feelings instead of your own wants,fears,and feelings will be the second step.
Your family are not served by you having feelings of self pity,self loathing,fear of consequences,despair or thoughts of suicide etc.

I can’t (and of course shouldn’t) make the decision for you whether you should tell your wife.
I can only say that personally I would want a husband to be honest to me and I wouldn’t want to be married to someone who kept secrets about such serious matter about me,from me.

I will say though,that I think you should base your decision on what your wife wants and not off your own fears,as this will be a sign of maturity,growth and courage.
 
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@Reuben_j and all ,

I am not yet married and was preferring to marry a Catholic man if possible but what you say makes it sound (at least to me) that it is almost inevitable that there would be infidelity and that Catholics have to go into the marriage fully prepared to “accept the sinful acts against each other (including adultery)”.

What though if you want a husband who is honest and don’t want one who would ever hurt you so seriously by cheating and you yourself would never compromise yourself and cheat on him/hurt him this way?

If even many agnostics can see it’s wrong to be unfaithful and choose not to be unfaithful,and be honest if they ever were,why can’t Catholic?

I’m starting to think I would rather hedge my bets on an agnostic man who thinks this way rather than a Catholic man who I will never truly know him and never know if he is keeping some secret from me.

I think marriage should be forever in all instance except not always when infidelity occurs.

Sure,some in these situations may be granted an annulment,but others may not.
Why does the Catholic Church “punish” the innocent spouse by saying if they get a divorce and remarry an honest and faithful man/women,they are committing adultery?

Why,when they are the innocent one,is their only choice to be loveless (romantically speaking) and celibate or option two:stay with the spouse and keep forgiving them (as often people cheat more than once).
Forgiveness should not necessarily have to mean accepting a certain behaviour.

Sometimes I have seen those real Christian types of women (often evangelical) on Tv.
Their husbands have cheat on them and they forgive him,they stay together for the sake of God,children and religion.
He confesses to God and says God has changed him to a different man.
The wife is held up as an excellent,loving,long suffering,forgiving Godly woman.

Guess what? A few years/months later you hear or read that the husband has cheated again!

Can a “leopard change his spots” through sacraments?
Maybe some can,but I don’t think all.
 
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Hi Rozellelily ,I’ve very glad you have read the other thread and that you have much commonsense regarding openness with sincerity and trust within a marriage.And every priest(my own brother also) stresses this as vital.All the real practicing Catholics in my life that are married practice such openness and there is no infidelity .
All the best ,Greenfields.
 
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Hi Rozellelily I said under all circumstances a lie is a lie,to reveal infidelity is the first best thing to do,at the same time not reveling the infidelity is prudence in a given situation,the the spouse who committed it is not only thinking about himself or she self,but about the other spouse in all aspects and also about the children how can this be selfish or self serving? your confusing them to teens making a dent is absurd.

Bottom line is a lie is a lies under any circumstances, not divulging is prudence in a particular situation, and it’s one’s own choice to do so,if you feel it should be revealed ok it’s the best thing to do.

I do appreciate you personal opinion ,but don’t. force that on others God Bless
 
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@adgloriam,

I wouldn’t want to force right/wrong on someone but it would be good to find a likeminded person who already thinks this way (about honesty).

“What is he gonna do if he makes a “mistake”. [You forget to mention, you yourself can pressure him into the mistake by devaluating him.]”

In which way could a woman devalue her husband to pressure him into adultery (or visa versa) please?

"If you make a mistake regarding “the value of the person”
Can you please elaborate?
 
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Thanks @Francis,

Sorry to push the point, and perhaps my analogy was insufficient but the point I was trying to make with the example is that the child had “wronged” not just God but also the parent.

IOW,when someone is unfaithful,haven’t they not just sinned against God but also against their spouse?
To not tell them and be deceptive,doesn’t that keep the spouse ignorant and trusting in someone who might not necessarily be trustworthy?

Perhaps they will find out later and think their marriage-and trust-was built on a lie?

I can’t think of many circumstances where it would be more prudent not to tell except the instance of terminal illness or if the spouse was seriously emotionally frail and couldn’t handle knowing and wouldn’t want to know.
 
@adgloriam,

Most of that sounds like a dysfunctional marriage to me.
 
I don’t wish to force my opinion on others but the concern here is that it affects another person when you are deceptive to them regarding them.

When it’s a instance that only affects “person A” that’s a different story.
 
Rozellelily said:
Most of that sounds like a dysfunctional marriage to me.
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Well, I’ve read through your posts…And the main part of being a good wife would be to forgive in the name of love. Yet, you haven’t had any worry about forgiving or love, you only worry was your imposition of the truth. [You’ll might have a big surprise in the future].
 
As you mentioned the dent thing ,sure the child has to be truthful ,that’s how children are brought up with good ethics, morals and manners,i as a child used to reveal everything to my Father ,why?because,he corrected me gently, and made me understand my mistakes and advice me not to do it again.but if there is an abusive father, will the child feel confident to reveal his mistakes? no, not at all, he may feel comfortable to reveal to his mother.the same here.

Sure they sinned against God and their spouse. infidelity is a grievous sin,sure they have broken the trustworthiness,as i said the first best thing to do is to reveal it in a given situation,It is prudent not to reveal in a particular circumstances because it may cause serious damage to both and it is prudence for the sack of greater good of themselves and the family.God bless
 
First of all there are many good Catholic spouses who are very faithful to each other, even before you consummate the marriage you can always discuss both of your priorities with each each other ,that you will be truthful and faithful in all thing and many more such things,as both agree of such promises.

It all depends on the love ,bonding and trust of the spouses,as each one have different level of understanding,accepting thing,since each one of us are unique,it is prudence for the sack of greater-good of both the spouses and their families,it is not deceptive to or untrustworthy to abstain to reveal them but prudence. Confessing them to a priest would suffice, if Both spouses love each other and trust each other, i don’t see any reason you should not revealing infidelity.God Bless
 
Regarding lying, the Church has been pretty clear about it being intrinsically evil. A “right to the truth” is not a perquisite for lying to be immoral.

CCC 2482 “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.”

CCC 2485 “By its very nature, lying is to be condemned.”

Also, there is the condemnation of strict mental reservation by Innocent XI, which of course includes straightforward lies.
 
A right to the truth justifies people in revealing it. It doesn’t (necessarily) impose an obligation to do so on any given person, particularly when doing so would require the destruction of one’s own good name.
 
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@Rozellelily

Oh dear. The reason why this thread drags on an on is because you make wrong assumption. It’s ok, I am not chiding you but you understand wrongly.

There are many successful Catholic marriages. I am one of them. Married more than twenty years, still going strong and we are in fidelity to each other.

You were bringing the issue of adultery and how to handle it, not that Christian marriages always end in adultery.

Rozellelily, your best bet is a man of God, preferably a Catholic. I have a daughter myself, and if she get married one day and ask me what she should look in a man, I would say, “A man who loves God.”

You would have a near perfect husband in a Catholic, but of course as long as he is a good Catholic, obeying the Church’s teachings and loving God.

Expecting to get divorce is not a way to start a marriage.

Why would you think an agnostic would be a better husband than a Catholic? What is his guiding principle in marriage?

For a Catholic, it is stated very clearly - no divorce until death, fidelity to the marriage vow, love the wife like he loves his own body because now his wife’s body is his own, love the wife as Jesus loves the Church meaning a husband will give his life for his wife, encourage the wife with words of the Gospel so that she would be holy and blameless before God.

Who says a Catholic husband should keep secret from the wife? If we talk about broken marriages, well, surely they are not confined to Catholics only, no?

Rozellelily, it is not punishment. Catholicism does not allow divorce unless annulled. Would you want a divorce and not wanting to save your marriage?

Of course, adultery is unacceptable. Nobody says it is. If the married couple start well, follow the Church’s teaching of fidelity and love in their Christian marriage, there will be no certain behavior that you have to tolerate.

But if adultery should happen, then what are you going to do about it? Would you want a divorce or try to reconcile and forgive?

Not sure about the Evangelicals. …
Adultery is sin, doing it again and again, is a sin again and again. What is your point?

Yes, we know husbands who changed after being filled with the Holy Spirit who transformed into loving husbands and who love their wives and God.

Do not under estimate the grace of God. A man who truly loves God by His grace will become a husband that God wants him to be.
 
Thanks @Reuben_J

If I could find a man who loved God,but who also respected me enough to be honest about such serious and affecting matters such as infidelity then that would be the ideal.

To be completely honest, I don’t think I would want to reconcile a marriage after adultery as the pain would be too much and maybe we aren’t truly compatible.
I would forgive him but I probably would not want to stay married to him.

I think If I was what he truly wanted, and I made him happy them he would not have cheated.
If he is honest in his heart,then he would see that he really wants something/someone else.

If he cheat because he is overly impressed by external beauty or sexiness,then that is probably not type of man I would like to be married to either.
He is not honouring you as his wife.

Of course,I hold myself to the same standard and would expect a husband to react the same if I was unfaithful to him.

I wonder if a “moral agnostic” is a “safer bet” (so to speak) because his morals still come from God but by marrying a Catholic who knows marriage is for life and you will be with him no matter what -perhaps he will take advantage of that fact?
Ie:he knows you will forgive him and stay married even for infidelities.
I have seen some men only change/grow though loss (the wife leaving) and realising what a good woman they have lost and that other women don’t compare (in character).
 
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@Rozellelily

Read Reuben_J answer until you have it memorized. (everything you need is inside his answer.)
 
A man who loves God. That speaks for itself in a profound and encompassing way. In fact in everything you really want in marriage, and not just fleeting things, you will get from a man who loves God. Yes, admittedly with the present day secularism, probably finding such a person maybe be rare, but not impossible. The church would be a likely place to start.

Reflect on this verse … Seek ye first the Kingdom of God … and everything else will fall into place. Not the other way round, for if that is so, it will not last.
 
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Thankyou @Reuben_j

Everything you say it right and true.

I’m just curious,can Gods grace change all adulterers though?
Eg:don’t many men cheat because they don’t find their wife physically attractive anymore or they get “tempted” when someone much more externally attractive shows interest in them?
Can He make them attracted to their wife again?
Won’t Catholic women who stay in marriages affected by infidelity be resuming a marriage with a man who is not attracted to them?

Love is great but I don’t think (primarily) men cheat because of love but looks.
To use a crude example Bill Clinton may love Hilary,but it’s Monica he finds attractive.

Maybe God can change a man who cheats because “he wants to have his cake and eat it too” but can he change the ones who cheat for attraction/beauty reasons?
 
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