Catholics and adultery and lying

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Tis_Bearself said:
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Augustine3:
Do you also confess every time you’ve entertained an impure thought with someone else?
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You’re being a bit of a nosy parker, but my husband and I have had conversations about this, especially when we were much younger.

We have had conversations about everything during the course of the 30 years we have known each other.

That is a main reason I married him. Because he is a guy who can talk to me about things without turning white or blowing a gasket or walking out the door.
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My post was not addressed to you and i’m not interested what you communicate to your husband. If you read the context of my post it had nothing to do with being nosy. I was making a point by asking a rhetorical question
 
For me personally,even kissing would be cheating (providing that you have already made it official as a committed couple and are on the same page about it).

A husband or wife sleeping with another is of course worse,but even if they cheat (kissing) during dating it would make my mind take stock and weight up if that’s what I get during dating what could I possibly receive when married?
 
TheLittleLady said:
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adgloriam:
Well, there is such a thing as a “pious lie”.
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Not in Catholicism.

Satan is a liar and the father of lies. There can be no pious sin.

Christ has promised that there will never be a temptation to lie (repeated questions and pressure that violate your privacy, or nazis, or ISIS or even your wife asking “do I look fat in this dress”) where lying is the only choice you have. We will never be tempted to sin so that there is no means of escape. There is always a way to avoid lying. Scripture said it, I believe it.
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Good post. That says it all. God does not compromise on sin and neither should we if we are to obey Him. We only sin out of our human weaknesses but nowhere does God condone it.
 
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adgloriam said:
“pious lie” being synonymous with “merciful omission”. I didn’t like it at first, but it was told to me by an 80 year old priest - so I had to “suck it up” under the context for lack of a better response.

TheLittleLady said in the other thread, approximately:“You don’t have to admit a sin after sacramental absolution.” That much is true and sure! But doesn’t answer to the continued omission if asked about the sin in conjugal context. So the question remains on the basis:“Charity rejoices in truth”, and “The truth will set you free.”

Any one wanting to provide an answer is very welcomed. Is the continued omission a sin or not? What, and how, exactly are you supposed to do then?
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80 year old priests can be wrong. We are to learn the Faith so we know when there is an error.

And good job at twisting my words!! You are never required to reveal your sins. Never, ever ever ever.

If your sin is adultery and your spouse asks “did you commit adultery?” you can choose to answer but the Church does not require you to answer. You can remain silent.
 
TheLittleLady said:
And good job at twisting my words!!
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Never my intention! (the other posters went that way, and I thought it was an interesting point to make!)

The thing is, JPII said latter on: “With a mature love the spouse can come to love the other even more with knowledge of the sin.” This, of course, requires two mature persons, and what is more: perfect contrition!!! And I’ve found immense consolation in these words of the saint. (although what you said is much more prudent by way of first approximation.)
 
Augustine3 said:
My post was not addressed to you and i’m not interested what you communicate to your husband. If you read the context of my post it had nothing to do with being nosy. I was making a point by asking a rhetorical question
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The point of a discussion thread is that a group of people can talk about a topic, not just two people. In the future, if you want to just discuss the general topic of the thread with one poster, it might be better if you private messaged them.

Also, whether or not your question was rhetorical, I thought it deserved a real answer, so I answered it. I am honestly not sure what “point” you were trying to make with your “rhetorical” question unless it was to try to come up with something that you thought people would say they didn’t discuss with their spouse.
 
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@francis ,

to me that seems very selfish and self serving tbh.
Not the part about not telling someone if they have cancer -that’s fully understandable.

Revealing may lead to divorce but they are still deserving of the truth so that they can be informed about their own life and make decisions based off this information.

I completely agree that modelling divorce is definitely not good for children,no matter if society says children are fine with divorce,but is modelling deceptive to their mother/father any better? 😳

The innocent wife/husband deserves the right to know the character of the person they are married to.
It’s true that they might not be understanding, but they are not the one who cheated and hurt the other “party”.
It seems to me poor character and emotionally immature to avoid taking responsibility and telling someone something so seriously that affects their life because of self serving/self preservation reasons.
Ie:“they might react with strong emotions and I can’t deal with that so I won’t tell them”

Also,the fact that the innocent spouse may “badger them” for the rest of their lives-while not desirable or good in itself - I don’t think this in anyway justifies deceiving them.

It seems to me all about me,me,me (the guilty spouse).

Even the premise of not telling them for children’s sake (concern children will be affected because they will divorce) may seem selfless,but at the same time time,the cheated on spouse deserves to know what’s going on in their own lives and marriage and they deserve to know and make that choice themselves (regarding staying married or trying to see if there’s ground for annulment).
If they don’t know the truth,they are robbed of aunotomy.
They just have to keeping living a false (false because ignorant of cheating) happy life built on a foundation of infidelity and deception?

I understand when posters state that the person shouldn’t tell them with the motivation of self serving reasons but to not tell them because of self serving reasons is wrong too.

It seems to me a bit like an analogy of a child or teen saying to their parent “I didn’t tell you that I was the person who put that dent in the wall because I knew you might react with strong emotion and not just let it go straight away ,I went to confession though and God has forgiven me so end of story,let’s move on”.
 
Seriously, if you pop up with a positive ghonasyphaherpaAIDS test, then you are likely going to want to tell your spouse. Heck, in some places the law might require you to disclose the positive test to your partner.

That still does not mean that the Church says you must.
 
Well I’m one of those people. I got drunk (well the woman helped get me drunk). She kept giving me alcohol, then followed me. I want to die. Not that I’m suicidal. I want God to take my life. I don’t want to live.

I deserve all the pain and hurt in the world. I deserve to lose everything. My two boys will lose their whole world. I desperately want to keep my family. I didn’t want this. I didn’t consent to it, but it happened. So I confess and destroy my family. I don’t deserve to live.
 
You are a loved child of God. You made a mistake. EVERY one of us commits sins. Christ died on a cross for your sin, HE is waiting with open arms to forgive you and to bring you back to Him.

Please, reach out to a good solid Catholic counseling service before you do or say anything:


 
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut @jfz178 and all others

Your training sounds really interesting.
This is what is confusing me too,if it’s the case that a Catholic could never lie without it being a sin than doesn’t that mean Catholics (practicing) can’t be Police officers because sometimes they lie when they do undercover work?
Like they might lie/pretend that they are “Robbo the criminal” when they really Police.

Regarding martyrdom,this might be the ideal but is it right for everyone on a practical term?
I mean,yes there are Christians in Middle East who die at Isis hands not BS’ing them about their Christian faith and they are heroes,but if all did this,especially women,who would look after their children?
The children who survived might end up being “raised” by the hands of Isis members.
 
If I believe all the people on here I deserve all the pain I have coming. I swear i didn’t want this. This woman got me drunk, followed me to my room, and she threatened to “ruin me” if I told anyone.

I have only ever been with my wife. This will destroy her. Yes I got tested for STDs. They were all negative. I hate myself. And I don’t deserve to ever be happy again.
 
adgloriam said:
Never my intention! (the other posters went that way, and I thought it was an interesting point to make!)

The thing is, JPII said latter on: “With a mature love the spouse can come to love the other even more with knowledge of the sin.” This, of course, requires two mature persons, and what is more: perfect contrition!!! And I’ve found immense consolation in these words of the saint.
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Of course, they are gems of truth from the Saint.

If we read what he said slowly, we know they are more than just what appear on the surface.

See the phrase, “require two mature persons …”

In reality, a marriage is severely damaged by an act of infidelity, for example adultery, where the oneness of the bodies of the husband and wife is being violated. Being sin as it is, it often results in brokenness and unforgiveness.

To bring the couple together is more than just being words. They have to agree to come before God, for God only can heal what we humans unable to, in a disposition of prayer and agree to reconcile, love and forgive, acknowledging the mistake and sin that have been committed, which had betrayed the marriage vow.

In other word, a couple have to be prepared in order to reach a state of mind where they would be able to accept each other inadequacies and sinful acts against each other. Once they recognize that, then they would be able to accept the reality of sin and be reconciled without further damaging the marriage relationship.

Thus telling the truth about sin has to be done in a proper way and they have to be prepared too, otherwise, what good does it do if the couple cannot accept it, get angry, blame and not forgive the partner? Discretion, wisdom, prayers and time have to be involved to save a marriage in order for it to work.

Do it when both are ready and not before.

Mere words can be just theoretical and if not applied with wisdom, can only bring further damage to the marriage itself.
 
And yes I’ve had suicidal thoughts. I thought about making it look like an accident so as to not cause my family anymore pain.

When something like this happens and you didn’t plan on it happening, it devastates you. I’m sure I’m broken, and I’ll never be the same again.

My kids are what keep me going at this point. I pray that is what always keeps me going.
 
adgloriam said:
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Augustine3:
not addressed to you and i’m not interested
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Lacking thoughtfulness, and solicitude. (not to mention manners or patient, bluntness bordering cruelty in face of good sporting humor and candor)
Augustine3 said:
I was making a point by asking a rhetorical question
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Plenty of other rhetorical resources…You’d mind answering your own questions (as rhetorical questions suppose and demand.)
Augustine3 said:
, indulgence in impure thoughts
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Bordering Manichaeism - you forget to mention this requires full knowledge, consent, excludes habit or duress, and so forth…
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You’re very good at pointing the finger. Have you considered you’re a little too judgemental yourself??
 
Thoughts are not actions. Again I have kids and I can’t do that to them. Doesn’t mean those thoughts don’t happen.

I know I’m the scum of the earth and deserve every bit of pain coming my way.
 
@Thelittlelady

No disrespect,but isn’t keeping the truth from your husband or wife that you have been unfaithful vastly different and much more serious and grave matter than not telling them that you think their taste in Tv shows suck or their couch is outdated ?

We all “suffer” each other’s “flaws” of loved ones quietly and patiently because we love them-and like you said-don’t want to hurt people we love but what in the instance where we would be hurting those we love by being deceptive and not being honest with them?

You mentioned your marriage is not built on lies but respect-respect in a marriage means being honest about very serious matters.

You mentioned “…if your spouse asks you “were you ever unfaithful to me?” and you answer “if I have ever committed that sin, I have confessed it and repented and amended my life” that is not a lie.”

In reality,by saying this your spouse would then know that you were unfaithful because a person who hadn’t would just say no.
Truly trustworthy/honest people have no need for such ambiguity in speech.
 
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