Catholics and marriage licenses

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1ke said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Alrighty then. Are you going to pony up the $10-20k per couple (I’m averaging the cost of a private investigator which runs around 8-12k) it would take for the Church to ensure that they are dispensing the Sacrament to the right people?
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You are overstating the marriage license process.

You walk in, fill out the form, show your ID, and pay your fee. My husband lived in another state, he didn’t even have to be present I just had to bring his ID with me to the license office. Some states require you have a blood test also, but most just require and ID and money. Boom, license issued. There is no search or background check. You just check boxes that say you aren’t related, already married, etc.

Whether banns must be published is left to the Episcopal Confenrence, if they are not the pastor is responsible for the premarital investigation. The license is not a substitute for banns.
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My point is that the state can do this because they have the technology to link everything. They can ensure that someone has not been married before in that state because they have your ID. It’s cheap because they have a system that works for millions of people.

If you were going to do what the government does in this simple transaction without any government help, then it would cost thousands.
 
If your friend has chosen to live outside the jurisdiction of the government and requirements of the church, she now has to live with her choices. She cannot have it both ways.
 
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1ke said:
Yes it is canon law, and you can make your opinion known but must still obey canon law as it currently exists.
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No where in canon law does it say couples must apply for a marriage license with the government.
 
Someone posted this upthread…Can 1071 Section 1

There is no way for the Church to know if your marriage can be recognized by civil law unless you get a marriage license
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
I think you are missing the point, it’s not about the church allowing the government to do investigations on couples. (Which I think is very silly) It’s about the church making it mandatory for couples to ask permission for a sacrament.
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If one of them was unbaptized and it wasn’t a sacrament would she still have a problem with it? If so, she’s just wanting what she wants and it has nothing to do with a sacrament.
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
Why do you continue to degrade and denigrate the sacrament as if it was no more than brushing your teeth? Should there really be no protections to ensure that it’s undertaken validly?
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I never said there should be no protocol leading up to the sacrament of matrimony. For you to say that I have "degraded and denigrated the sacrament " is ridiculous! Removing the state who seems to believe it’s perfectly fine for guys to marry guys and crazy nasty stuff like like, i think would only dignify the Church and her sacraments. Maybe once the state stops redefining our most important sacrament, I’ll give a bit.
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Why do you continue to degrade and denigrate the sacrament as if it was no more than brushing your teeth? Should there really be no protections to ensure that it’s undertaken validly?
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I never said there should be no protocol leading up to the sacrament of matrimony. For you to say that I have "degraded and denigrated the sacrament " is ridiculous! Removing the state who seems to believe it’s perfectly fine for guys to marry guys and crazy nasty stuff like like, i think would only dignify the Church and her sacraments. Maybe once the state stops redefining our most important sacrament, I’ll give a bit.
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:roll_eyes:

No. It’s clear that despite Cannon 1071 Section 1 YOU want to play by your own rules.

You are the one who is cheapening marriage. You are the one who is turning the sacrament into a pawn in this silly game of “I make my own country.”

The Catholic church DOES NOT recognize a civil marriage of a Catholic. What others do with a civil license is of no consequence.
 
Not baptized??? They are both baptized Catholics in good standing. It’s all about the sacrament!
 
Humility and obedience.

Sometimes you have to go to God and say “I don’t like this. I don’t agree with this. But this is what your Church is asking me to do so I will do it.”

Are you really willing to give up marriage to make a point? What does your intended think of that?
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
No. It’s clear that despite Cannon 1071 Section 1 YOU want to play by your own rules.
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Canon 1071 applies to those who assist not those who are receiving the sacrament. And is says “except in the case of necessity”
So she’s covered! 😊
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
You are the one who is cheapening marriage. You are the one who is turning the sacrament into a pawn in this silly game of “I make my own country.”
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Who are you quoting???
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You. You’ve stated several times that they are not “incorporated” in the US. Which is a childish game.

You continue to ignore ALL of Fr. David’s arguments and isnsit that a priest do things your way. You have no intention of obedience–which seems to be the crux of the issue here.
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
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Xanthippe_Voorhees:
No. It’s clear that despite Cannon 1071 Section 1 YOU want to play by your own rules.
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Canon 1071 applies to those who assist not those who are receiving the sacrament. And is says “except in the case of necessity”
So she’s covered! 😊
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🤨

Please go speak with a cannon lawyer. Your intpretation is not correct.
 
The Bishop gets to decide what’s “in case of necessity” not you.
 
KathleenT said:
Sometimes you have to go to God and say “I don’t like this. I don’t agree with this. But this is what your Church is asking me to do so I will do it.”
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I can do that and I would not be questioning this if it were a matter of the faith. But asking for a marriage without a license, is not going against canon law!

I think it’s wrong for couples who want to receive the sacrament of matrimony, to first be forced to ask permission from a government who constantly perverts marriage. If you want that for yourself, go for it!
 
What?

You think our sacramental marriages are somehow “less” because we obtained marriage licenses?

Okie dokie.
 
Sorry to interfere with the American people and system,but…sounds like Big Brother as you call it covers everything else for this person…kind of living from everybody else without paying the fair share…
But hey! a tantrum when it comes to the quite normal and average civil marriage and then…Big Brother is a niusance?
A matter of conscience should appear when it comes to putting down a dime for the common good too…not only to object to this before and after nonsense…
All this is quite absurd…
Just do as it has to been done …what else can these posters explain to you that they haven’ t?
How patient posters are here…
 
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I never said " I make my own country" please take care not to misquote others.
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
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KathleenT:
Sometimes you have to go to God and say “I don’t like this. I don’t agree with this. But this is what your Church is asking me to do so I will do it.”
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I can do that and I would not be questioning this if it were a matter of the faith. But asking for a marriage without a license, is not going against canon law!

I think it’s wrong for couples who want to receive the sacrament of matrimony, to first be forced to ask permission from a government who constantly perverts marriage. If you want that for yourself, go for it!
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I did not “ask permission” from the government.

I followed the directive of the priest who was to marry my husband and myself (as he was directed by Canon Law) to obtain the documentation to ensure the sanctity of the sacrament.

I was obedient to him and got the paperwork. He then as per Canon Law, allowed my husband and I to administer the sacrament of Matrimony to each other.

Why is it so bothersome to you what others do with a marriage license? The church uses it as a tool to verify that a person can be validly married. Do you not drive because others drive drunk?
 
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