Catholics and Muslims chillin' in Purgatory!

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Are you saying that Satan does not exist today, that there is no evil in the world?
No I’m referring to here:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
Yes I am agreeing with you on the animal sacrafice part but it is a fact that animal sacrafices were done for God (acceptable) until the crucfication,

Jesus was the last live sacrafice. The perfect Lamb.

Jews since and still today do not have animal sacrafice Jesus destroyed their Temple in three days with the ressurection.

The curtin was torn and the candles in the temple would not remain lit. About the year 70 ad the temple was destroyed completely by the Romans.
But I still think that is a shorthand for the detailed explanation I gave, shorthand which turns off Muslims and Jews who think you are saying that you don’t need to repent of anything, that Jesus is a whipping boy for all our sins no matter what.

So the way I explain it says yes, you still do have to repent, but you are only able to repent because Jesus made sacrifices of his own life to be placed in the role of High Priest who makes atonement for us.
 
Sorry to tell you folks that there is no Purgatory, and that is way you want fine a Muslims that can’t tell you that answer as well.
How can they beleve in a Purgatory when they don’t beleve in God?
 
No I’m referring to here:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
your post
That includes the power to defeat Satan. That’s what puts an end to sin and death, and thus the curse of Adam. Satan is here no more, so there is no reason to sin. And also that’s how God’s Laws are written on our hearts, rather, they are set free once not bound by sin any longer.

Today we need baptism

You have not explained what I posted by scripture.

Yes but Revelation is things that have yet to occur not that have occurred.

Satan is alive and well today and working hard to get your soul.
 
Sorry to tell you folks that there is no Purgatory, and that is way you want fine a Muslims that can’t tell you that answer as well.
How can they beleve in a Purgatory when they don’t beleve in God?
Purgatory
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and “under the earth” which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.
 
Sorry to tell you folks that there is no Purgatory, and that is way you want fine a Muslims that can’t tell you that answer as well.
How can they beleve in a Purgatory when they don’t beleve in God?
2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

www.ScriptureCatholic.com

And Muslims believed in God as a Religion before you did.
 
Today we need baptism

You have not explained what I posted by scripture.

Yes but Revelation is things that have yet to occur not that have occurred.

Satan is alive and well today and working hard to get your soul.
Water baptism is fine but if you don’t repent in your heart then you still won’t get to the Tree of Life, the fruit of which is the actual thing that ends original sin and curse of death from Adam.
 
Water baptism is fine but if you don’t repent in your heart then you still won’t get to the Tree of Life, the fruit of which is the actual thing that ends original sin and curse of death from Adam.
and the tree of life is where…

and its fruit is what…

and your authority of this is which…
 
and the tree of life is where…

and its fruit is what…

and your authority of this is which…
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
But I still think that is a shorthand for the detailed explanation I gave, shorthand which turns off Muslims and Jews who think you are saying that you don’t need to repent of anything, that Jesus is a whipping boy for all our sins no matter what.
This is a Catholic forum, and whatever Protestants think or their theology matters naught in the grand scheme of things. Bringing up their wayward theology ini the context of this discussion (i.e. saved just because you believe in Jesus and don’t need to repent) is irrelevant. It would be like us saying, “Well…ahmadis/alawites/sufis believe 'x,y and z…;”

If you are going to debate on this forum, you should probably ask more questions instead of make assumptions about legitimate Christianaity.
 
This is a Catholic forum, and whatever Protestants think or their theology matters naught in the grand scheme of things. Bringing up their wayward theology ini the context of this discussion (i.e. saved just because you believe in Jesus and don’t need to repent) is irrelevant. It would be like us saying, “Well…ahmadis/alawites/sufis believe 'x,y and z…;”

If you are going to debate on this forum, you should probably ask more questions instead of make assumptions about legitimate Christianaity.
Are you saying we don’t need to repent of our own sins, that Jesus died and that covers everything? I don’t get your point.
 
2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

www.ScriptureCatholic.com

And Muslims believed in God as a Religion before you did.
It same’s I have a lot of reading to do again, but I just don’t see that word Purgatory in the bible with all of your referance. If there was a purgatory then everyone would be there and there would be no need for hell, last I check the bible there’s only two places that God gives the people Heaven and Hell.
 
It same’s I have a lot of reading to do again, but I just don’t see that word Purgatory in the bible with all of your referance. If there was a purgatory then everyone would be there and there would be no need for hell, last I check the bible there’s only two places that God gives the people Heaven and Hell.
What is “hell” in the following since it isn’t the permanent hell of the Lake of Fire but something before that? And what is the sea? Wasn’t Jonah in the sea before he was swallowed into the belly of hell as a place to repent? And Jesus compared his days in the grave to Jonah being in the belly of hell.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
 
What is “hell” in the following since it isn’t the permanent hell of the Lake of Fire but something before that? And what is the sea? Wasn’t Jonah in the sea before he was swallowed into the belly of hell as a place to repent? And Jesus compared his days in the grave to Jonah being in the belly of hell.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
:clapping:

Even Muslims know that!

😃
 
the only problem though Moslems do not have a path to get to heaven.

Never mentioned in the quaran how one gets there?

No one gets to see Allah
This is incorrect…

On the day of judgement, it will turn pitch black and we will have to find our way to Jannah in the dark… The believers will light up, the strength of their light depends on how much iman (faith) they had in this dunya (the worldly life). So your body will be like a flashlight that will allow you to see and that’s how you get to Jannah. At that time the disbelievers will beg the believers to let us use your light, but Allah will say no and put a wall between them…

And the greatest reward of Jannah is that insha Allah (god-willing) we will get to see Allah’s face.
 
Both Muslims and universal Christians believe in Purgatory (another shared belief) to some extant.

Are there any Muslims here who can explain their version of Purgaotry?

Thanks!

👍
From my understanding purgatory is a place where you go to be purified before you get to heaven, please correct me if I’m wrong. In Islam we don’t really have such a place… you either go to Jannah or Jehannum (hell), you may have to spend some time in hell before you get to Jannah, but there is no in between.

This is the process of death from a Muslim perspective:

When someone begins to die the Angel of Death or Izraeel comes to take the soul out of the body and puts it in a place called the Barzakh.

“Say: 'The Angel of Death, put in charge of you, will (duly) take your souls. Then shall you be brought back to your Lord.” (32:11)

"Wherever you are, Death will find you out, even if you are
in towers built up strong and high! " (4:78)

Sometimes it takes more than one angel to remove a soul from a body, depending on how bad the person was. As soon as the angels take your soul (right after you die), the deceased is questioned, punished, maybe even beaten… It’s like a dream or a nightmare… the soul is returned when the body is being shrouded and goes back into the body when the body is being placed into the grave.

When the burial is complete, Munkar and Nakir the 2 angels come and begin the questioning. They ask who is your Lord, what is your religion, who is the man that was sent among you, how did you come to know these things? And when all those questions are answered correctly, a voice from above says ‘My slave has spoken the truth, so spread out carpets from the Garden for him and open a gate of the Garden for him!’

Then there is the life in the grave which will be spent until Judgement Day. Some people will be punished in the grave and it will be brutal, but it will still be better than the torment of the hell fire. The time spent in the grave is the period between death and resurrection… The body and the soul remain connected during this time.

Skip to the trumpet sounding twice… all will be raised up and brought together in an assembly, waiting to be judged. There will be so much fear that it will be every man for himself… no one will be concerned with anyone else but themselves. It’s going to be so hot from the sun, and the crowds, mass chaos. The sun will be so bright, but there will be 7 groups of people who will be shaded by Allah.

“Every servant of Allah will remain standing before Allah on the Day of Judgement until he has answered five questions about five things: His life–how he spent it; his knowledge–how much he acted upon it; his wealth–how he acquired it and how he spent it; and his body (and health)–how he used it.” [Muslim]

Then every person will receive his Book, the book of all his deeds from his entire life. If he gets it in his right hand he will rejoice, but if he gets it in his left hand they will be in distress…
 
Like I said before, some people will have to spend a litle time in Hell, or have a small punishment in the hellfire or even a long period and then be granted Jannah.

The prophet (saw) said: “The mildest punishment to be inflicted upona person in Hell is that he will be made to wear a pair of sandals made of fire which will be so hot that they will make his brain boil like things boil on a stove. He will imagine that no one is
undergoing a punishment more severe although his punishment, in
reality, will be the mildest in Hell.” [Bukhari, Muslim]

Someone mentioned Al Araf… Al Araf is a place for people who are not qualified to enter either heaven or hell, such as children or the mentally ill… They wait there until forgiveness is given to them through the Mercy of Allah, then they go to Jannah.
 
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