Catholics and Muslims chillin' in Purgatory!

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2ndGen

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Both Muslims and universal Christians believe in Purgatory (another shared belief) to some extant.

Are there any Muslims here who can explain their version of Purgaotry?

Thanks!

👍
 
2ndGen said:
Both Muslims and universal Christians believe in Purgatory (another shared belief) to some extant.

Are there any Muslims here who can explain their version of Purgaotry?

Thanks!

👍
Click to expand...
Do you mean Christians in general? If you do, I don’t think that is so.

Show me a protestant-universal Christian who actually believes in purgatory, and they would have to then accept too many other related Catholic truths to remain a protestant. (and they might even have to use a “bigger” Bible too:rolleyes: )
 
MrS said:
Do you mean Christians in general? If you do, I don’t think that is so.

Show me a protestant-universal Christian who actually believes in purgatory, and they would have to then accept too many other related Catholic truths to remain a protestant. (and they might even have to use a “bigger” Bible too:rolleyes: )
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When I said “universal”, I was referring to “catholic” Christians only. Protestant Christians (or “non-universal”) belong to sects of universal Christianity.

And you’d be surprised…I’m finding out that along with our Bible, our communion, our seminaries, they are adopting other Catholic traits.

Like I always say, the longer a Protestant is around, the closer to Catholicism they grow. First, they couldn’t use idols. Now they use crosses. Then, they couldn’t take communion, now they do. They couldn’t mention Mary before, now (supposedly) she is being taught to their children as the example of a perfect Christian.

Little by little, the 400 years that they have in will add up to the ,2,000 years that we have in faith and 1,400 years from now, who knows…maybe they’ll be going to Confression to Priests (besides confessing their sins to their friends and to therapists) and attending Eucharistic Adoration.

Give them time. They are spiritually immature when it comes to their faith. 400 years is not even a day to God.

For Protestants, it’s only lunch time on their first day.

For Catholics, we’re already beginnig our 3rd day.

I mean in God’s eyes according to Scripture to Whom supposedly a day is like a thousand years.

🙂
 
I’m sure there are Protestants who believe in Purgatory.

Any on this forum?

If not, then why not since Christians have always believed in it?
 
2ndGen said:
When I said “universal”, I was referring to “catholic” Christians only. Protestant Christians (or “non-universal”) belong to sects of universal Christianity.

And you’d be surprised…I’m finding out that along with our Bible, our communion, our seminaries, they are adopting other Catholic traits.

Like I always say, the longer a Protestant is around, the closer to Catholicism they grow. First, they couldn’t use idols. Now they use crosses. Then, they couldn’t take communion, now they do. They couldn’t mention Mary before, now (supposedly) she is being taught to their children as the example of a perfect Christian.

Little by little, the 400 years that they have in will add up to the ,2,000 years that we have in faith and 1,400 years from now, who knows…maybe they’ll be going to Confression to Priests (besides confessing their sins to their friends and to therapists) and attending Eucharistic Adoration.

Give them time. They are spiritually immature when it comes to their faith. 400 years is not even a day to God.

For Protestants, it’s only lunch time on their first day.

For Catholics, we’re already beginnig our 3rd day.

I mean in God’s eyes according to Scripture to Whom supposedly a day is like a thousand years.

🙂
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Can someone please address how Catholics will be “chillin’ in purgatory” with those who hold to Islam that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ?

I don’t need to know how Islam believes in a purgatory system in comparison to other religions.
 
Lev23 said:
Can someone please address how Catholics will be “chillin’ in purgatory” with those who hold to Islam that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ?

I don’t need to know how Islam believes in a purgatory system in comparison to other religions.
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Sure.

Romans 2.

👍
 
I was skimming through a book called “Purgatory:Explained…”, I don’t think there were any references to “chillin”. In fact, the cover would disagree with your use of the word "chillin’ " to describe it.
 
Romans 2
God’s Judgment Is Fair
1Some of you accuse others of doing wrong. But there is no excuse for what you do. When you judge others, you condemn yourselves, because you are guilty of doing the very same things. 2We know that God is right to judge everyone who behaves in this way. 3Do you really think God won’t punish you, when you behave exactly like the people you accuse? 4You surely don’t think much of God’s wonderful goodness or of his patience and willingness to put up with you. Don’t you know that the reason God is good to you is because he wants you to turn to him?
5But you are stubborn and refuse to turn to God. So you are making things even worse for yourselves on that day when he will show how angry he is and will judge the world with fairness. 6God will reward each of us for what we have done. 7He will give eternal life to everyone who has patiently done what is good in the hope of receiving glory, honor, and life that lasts forever. 8But he will show how angry and furious he can be with every selfish person who rejects the truth and wants to do evil. 9All who are wicked will be punished with trouble and suffering. It doesn’t matter if they are Jews or Gentiles. 10But all who do right will be rewarded with glory, honor, and peace, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 11God doesn’t have any favorites!
Code: 
12Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. 13God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it. 

14Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. 15This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, 16when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says.
 
Lev23 said:
I was skimming through a book called “Purgatory:Explained…”, I don’t think there were any references to “chillin”.
Click to expand...
Was there a reference to “skimming” there either?

👍
 
Like Jonah in the fish, as Jesus related his three days of death to.

Jonah 2:1-5 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish’s belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.

Psalms 18:4-6 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid. The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me. In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

Jonah 2:10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
 
Lev23 said:
I was skimming through a book called “Purgatory:Explained…”, I don’t think there were any references to “chillin”. In fact, the cover would disagree with your use of the word "chillin’ " to describe it.
Click to expand...
lol!.

no 2nd Gen, though I haven’t read the book, I think it’s a reference to how purgatory isn’t suppose to be pleasant. Rather, purgatory is a place where justice is served and we are purged - not exactly a pleasurable experience or a place where we can chill.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Like Jonah in the fish, as Jesus related his three days of death to.

Jonah 2:1-5 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish’s belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.

Psalms 18:4-6 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid. The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me. In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

Jonah 2:10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
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And then, there’s:

A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.
 
Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and “under the earth” which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.
 
Freshman88 said:
lol!.

no 2nd Gen, though I haven’t read the book, I think it’s a reference to how purgatory isn’t suppose to be pleasant. Rather, purgatory is a place where justice is served and we are purged - not exactly a pleasurable experience or a place where we can chill.
Click to expand...
😃

But at least those there have something those in hell don’t…“hope”. They know that they will see God again. They just have to wait out their sentence.

I believe 90% of those who make it to heaven and not hell will go to purgaotry.

I believe that I’ll be the last one in purgatory when all is said and done. They have a chair with my name on it down there.

:o
 
2ndGen said:
I’m sure there are Protestants who believe in Purgatory.

Any on this forum?

If not, then why not since Christians have always believed in it?
Click to expand...
:yup:

And when you’re saying Muslim Purgatory, are you referring to Jahannam?
 
2ndGen said:
Romans 2
God’s Judgment Is Fair
1Some of you accuse others of doing wrong. But there is no excuse for what you do. When you judge others, you condemn yourselves, because you are guilty of doing the very same things. 2We know that God is right to judge everyone who behaves in this way. 3Do you really think God won’t punish you, when you behave exactly like the people you accuse? 4You surely don’t think much of God’s wonderful goodness or of his patience and willingness to put up with you. Don’t you know that the reason God is good to you is because he wants you to turn to him?
5But you are stubborn and refuse to turn to God. So you are making things even worse for yourselves on that day when he will show how angry he is and will judge the world with fairness. 6God will reward each of us for what we have done. 7He will give eternal life to everyone who has patiently done what is good in the hope of receiving glory, honor, and life that lasts forever. 8But he will show how angry and furious he can be with every selfish person who rejects the truth and wants to do evil. 9All who are wicked will be punished with trouble and suffering. It doesn’t matter if they are Jews or Gentiles. 10But all who do right will be rewarded with glory, honor, and peace, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 11God doesn’t have any favorites!
Code: 
12Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. 13God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it. 

14Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. 15This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, 16when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says.
Click to expand...
So what you have been posting latley, according to your interpretation of Romans 2, one who holds to the belief of Islam and its Allah God that states Allah has no son, etc.,etc. in other words, deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, but yet “love” Mary, there concept of her that is, are then secured a spot in heaven after their time is served in purgatory.

If you believe in this, then what do you do about Romans 10:8-10?
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
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