Catholics and Muslims

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We have been through the ‘Inquisitions’ so how does that make us any better?

Blessings

Eric
The anti-Catholic historical-revisionist Protestant propaganda is strongly inculcated in this one… what shall we do, Dar? Well, Dar, I think a common sense approach would be a logical look at history, for a historical insinuation has occurred. Crikey, Dar, who’da thunk it!?

First, a preface of contextual consideration:
The Catholic Faith commands, unequivocally, since the founding of the Church, that apostates be killed? News to me, anyone else?

What you are espousing is not doctrine, whereas what you’ve quoted of my saying is doctrine in Islam.


Interesting that you mention it since the Inquisition is, in actuality, a good thing in terms of the Vatican, which is the official Catholic word on matters. Nothing licentious was approved, and indeed, much was reproved in the abuse of authority given for various reasons (same concept 4th Crusades 😉 )

Here’s some history: catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

Oh, and what you’re likely talking about is mainly the popular stories regarding the Spanish Inquisition, which, ironically, was partially due to the conversion of Jewish and Muslims in Spain. Yeah, check it:catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0075.html

The consensus amongst pretty much every Imam and scholar I’ve read is that for a Muslim woman to marry a Christian is absolutely forbidden and the main way of dealing with this is her death.

The answers on this are out there, I won’t bore you with quotes on it as you too have Google.
 
I am a Catholic school religion teacher! Can anyone help me understand how I can reconcile this in my own mind?
I understand how frustrating you are at the moment…

Unfortunately your son is sick nowadays by what is called “Love Blindness”, he can only see that girl in-front of him and only does what she says.

The only thing that you can do now is praying for GOD to reveal the true religion for him and his wife one day…
 
How does you son feel in giving up the belief regarding Jesus per the Catholic faith…?
When I was first studying Catholicism, about 8 to 10 years ago, I was torn between Islam and Christianity. I admired the Muslim simplicity in faith, belief and adherence to the tenets of their faith and their lack of human respect (That is, not caring so much what people thought of them, but rather what God, per their understanding, thought of them). But ONE thing kept me ABSOLUTELY from being able to become a Muslim- One thing alone. I knew that I would have to accept (believe) that Christ was nothing more than a Prophet 🤷.

Worldly and even pagan as I was (unbaptized and still searching for truth), That was something that I simply could not do. Deny Christ? As not being God himself? Never! Even then, I knew enough to know that Christ was no ordinary/regular/great Prophet, no mere Saint. He was God. I thank God that he allowed me to know that. 👍

No amount of beauty, goodness or other wonderful characteristics in other faiths come anywhere near Jesus Christ. If Christianity consisted of nothing but him alone, and consisted of nothing else, not the beautiful liturgies, sacraments, prayers, devotions, traditions, sacred Art,mysticism, martyrs and saints etc, but Jesus Christ Alone, it would STILL be the only option- The ONLY ONE! 👍
 
My son is 30 and he’s finally getting married, but the woman is a Muslim. I think she is a wonderful young lady. However, I have an overwheming sadness. 😦

I am a Catholic school religion teacher! Can anyone help me understand how I can reconcile this in my own mind?
Dear ashaefer , dont be any warried about your son , he will be in good hands and if her wife is a good muslim ,you will find her good with him and with you.
If your son is converted to islam , this doesnt mean he left christianity, in the contrary he will be more attached to God and to Jesus and all prophets,
Islam is not all what you see and ( how many differences you can see among muslims just as so many differences among christians) islam is so simple it is just a belief as i said before beliving in God ,his power , greatness, mercy,beauty, almighty …
Believing the prophets and holly books renealed to them ( Abraham sculptures,spalm od Davi,thorat Old testament of Moses ,evangile New testament toJesus and Quran to Mohamed ) angels servants of God, day of judgement ,heaven and hell and destiny.

If you as christian believe in all that there is not much difference with muslim.
 
@ ascheafer
Jewish, christianity and islam come all from the same origin,
We all believe in same one God but we do it in a different way,
You call Him The Father and we call Him Allah , what do you think if we make an arrangement ( only in this thread) and we both call Him The Creator.
as He created the universe He is the most merciful , The most Compassionate , The All Powerfull…
In islam a woman cannot mary a non muslim , but the judgment on her if she did , is not killing or,blabla said here , but to force her to divorse , or he converts .
 
Dear ashaefer , dont be any warried about your son , he will be in good hands and if her wife is a good muslim ,you will find her good with him and with you.
If your son is converted to islam , this doesnt mean he left christianity, in the contrary he will be more attached to God and to Jesus and all prophets,
Islam is not all what you see and ( how many differences you can see among muslims just as so many differences among christians) islam is so simple it is just a belief as i said before beliving in God ,his power , greatness, mercy,beauty, almighty …
Believing the prophets and holly books renealed to them ( Abraham sculptures,spalm od Davi,thorat Old testament of Moses ,evangile New testament toJesus and Quran to Mohamed ) angels servants of God, day of judgement ,heaven and hell and destiny.

If you as christian believe in all that there is not much difference with muslim.
What??? Of course there is a difference! Jesus is God. To deny this and leave Christianity for Islam is apostasy.
 
No amount of beauty, goodness or other wonderful characteristics in other faiths come anywhere near Jesus Christ. If Christianity consisted of nothing but him alone, and consisted of nothing else, not the beautiful liturgies, sacraments, prayers, devotions, traditions, sacred Art,mysticism, martyrs and saints etc, but Jesus Christ Alone, it would STILL be the only option- The ONLY ONE! 👍
:amen:
 
Actually I’m a fantasy wargamer, and my reference to being a paladin is from RPG gaming, not a historical paladin.
 
Only one thing kept you from being a Muslim?

That doesn’t sound right. I can list multiple things from the Quaran that are keeping me as far away as possible!
 
Care to elaborate? I have only found beauty and peace in Qur’aan.
Beauty and peace? lol

Qur’an (4:34) - “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”

Qur’an (38:44) - “And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath…”

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being “greener” than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Abu Dawud (2141) - “Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them.”

Abu Dawud (2142) - “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.”

Abu Dawud (2126) - “A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: ‘I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).’ The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: ‘She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her’”

Qur’an (2:282) - (Court testimony) “And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women.”

Qur’an (2:282) - Establishes that a woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man’s in court

Qur’an (2:228) - “and the men are a degree above them [women]”

Bukhari (6:301) - “[Muhammad] said, ‘Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?’ They replied in the affirmative. He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence.’”

Muslim (4:1039) - “A’isha said [to Muhammad]: ‘You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses’”

Quran (2:191-193) - “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

Quran (9:30) - “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah’s Apostle said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’

Qur’an (5:33) - “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides…”

Ibn Ishaq 764 When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr bin al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.”

Muhammad was quite shrewd in making suicide a crime while at the same time painting paradise in the most prolifically decadent terms - an endless orgy of sex, food, and aesthetic comfort. The frustration of the young believer, who is convinced that such eternal gratification lies just on the other side of death, but is forbidden from attaining it directly by his own hand, therefore comes to think of martyrdom as a relief - particularly if he is deprived of these comforts in life. Given this, it’s a wonder that suicide bombings aren’t more common than they are.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - “Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves.”

Qur’an (5:51) - “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.”

There are many more verses but I really don’t feel like finding them right now. I would like you to search these forums for threads of Mohammad. You will see multiple reasons why people don’t like him.
 
Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Damud, Ibn Ishaq, and Tabari are Hadith. Not Quranic.

Kouyate said Quran. Kouyate might be a “Sola Quran” variant.

Excellent sources otherwise.

It probably would help to provide source though, as many Muslims maintain that “non-Islamic” source mischaracterize and take out of context certain issues. In this, they are partially correct, as it happens- though more often than not, it’s not the case.

Check out Acts 17 Apologetics on youtube for some great debates.
 
Beauty and peace? lol

Qur’an (4:34) - “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”

Qur’an (38:44) - “And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath…”

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being “greener” than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Abu Dawud (2141) - “Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them.”

Abu Dawud (2142) - “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.”

Abu Dawud (2126) - “A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: ‘I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).’ The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: ‘She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her’”

Qur’an (2:282) - (Court testimony) “And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women.”

Qur’an (2:282) - Establishes that a woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man’s in court

Qur’an (2:228) - “and the men are a degree above them [women]”

Bukhari (6:301) - “[Muhammad] said, ‘Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?’ They replied in the affirmative. He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence.’”

Muslim (4:1039) - “A’isha said [to Muhammad]: ‘You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses’”

Quran (2:191-193) - “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

Quran (9:30) - “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah’s Apostle said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’

Qur’an (5:33) - “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides…”

Ibn Ishaq 764 When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr bin al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.”

Muhammad was quite shrewd in making suicide a crime while at the same time painting paradise in the most prolifically decadent terms - an endless orgy of sex, food, and aesthetic comfort. The frustration of the young believer, who is convinced that such eternal gratification lies just on the other side of death, but is forbidden from attaining it directly by his own hand, therefore comes to think of martyrdom as a relief - particularly if he is deprived of these comforts in life. Given this, it’s a wonder that suicide bombings aren’t more common than they are.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - “Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves.”

Qur’an (5:51) - “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.”

There are many more verses but I really don’t feel like finding them right now. I would like you to search these forums for threads of Mohammad. You will see multiple reasons why people don’t like him.
Merely a drop in the bucket!
 
Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Damud, Ibn Ishaq, and Tabari are Hadith. Not Quranic.

Kouyate said Quran. Kouyate might be a “Sola Quran” variant.

Excellent sources otherwise.

It probably would help to provide source though, as many Muslims maintain that “non-Islamic” source mischaracterize and take out of context certain issues. In this, they are partially correct, as it happens- though more often than not, it’s not the case.

Check out Acts 17 Apologetics on youtube for some great debates.
Not for nothing -

But if you look at Kouyate’s posting history right here on CAF, well there is much confusion regarding this poster.
 
Beauty and peace? lol

Qur’an (4:34) - “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”

Qur’an (38:44) - “And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath…”

Qur’an (2:282) - (Court testimony) “And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women.”

Qur’an (2:282) - Establishes that a woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man’s in court

Qur’an (2:228) - “and the men are a degree above them [women]”

Quran (2:191-193) - “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

Quran (9:30) - “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

Qur’an (5:33) - “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides…”

Qur’an (5:51) - “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.”
snip
.
Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Damud, Ibn Ishaq, and Tabari are Hadith. Not Quranic.

Kouyate said Quran. Kouyate might be a “Sola Quran” variant.

Excellent sources otherwise.

It probably would help to provide source though, as many Muslims maintain that “non-Islamic” source mischaracterize and take out of context certain issues. In this, they are partially correct, as it happens- though more often than not, it’s not the case.

Check out Acts 17 Apologetics on youtube for some great debates.
Ok, I’ve removed- snip- all of the hadiths from the other poster.

Kouyate is not a Koranist only - Sola Quran -
 
Care to elaborate? I have only found beauty and peace in Qur’aan.
I’m still waiting on your replies based on your statement that you posted regarding this is “not true Islam”

I’m still waiting and I’ve bumped the replies.

Also, I’m still waiting on the answer is you have read the New Testament

Thanks…
 
My son’s response is’ “I believe in God, and I am a good person.” I think he is trying NOT to think about it because he is in love.

He is 30, so there is not much I can do except show Christ’s love. It is still very sad.
 
My son’s response is’ “I believe in God, and I am a good person.” I think he is trying NOT to think about it because he is in love.

He is 30, so there is not much I can do except show Christ’s love. It is still very sad.
Works without faith in Christ just doesn’t do it. 🤷

To be muslim is to categorically reject Christ…and in this case for a person.
 
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